TheSkepticChristian Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 (edited) Here is an interesting video of a Mormon who thinks gay marriage should remain legal. There is no evidence that gay marriage will destroy our nation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63LDdVhns4I Edited December 29, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian
Avatar4321 Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 I'm going to stick with the prophets on this one 1
TheSkepticChristian Posted December 29, 2015 Author Posted December 29, 2015 39 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said: I'm going to stick with the prophets on this one However, there is no evidence that the Prophets still have a position on the politics of gay marriage. Do you have any? That guy believes gay marriage is a sin, but he thinks it should remain legal.
strappinglad Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 The pill didn't destroy the nation. The massive increase in the quality and availability of porn didn't destroy the nation. The acceptance of divorce as a norm didn't destroy the nation. The great increase of sexual exploitation of children didn't destroy the nation. I see no reason why gay marriage will destroy the nation. I suggest spending some time researching the history of nations and empires that have unraveled and /or faded away. It was rarely if ever just one cause. The Egyptians, the Greeks, the Romans, the Maya, the Inca, the Vikings, the British Empire, and others have decreased in power and influence over time , sometimes it took centuries, sometimes barely a couple of decades. Pay close attention to the changes in North and Central America. Why was it that highly organized, intelligent people who numbered in the hundreds of thousands if not millions, were defeated by a few hundred Spanish adventurers? Was it because the Spaniards were so much more righteous that the Natives? Hardly! There is evidence now of several landings by different peoples from outside America. Asian, Viking, Roman? , Egyptian?, why did none of them take hold and expand? What was the tipping point that made the Spanish /European invasion last? The Book of Mormon gives a few hints. Pride apparently is a big factor. Following one's own will , vast differences in wealth, class warfare, tribalism, rejecting the true God of the land, the collapse of a central governing authority through corruption, these all lead to the ripening in wickedness of a nation. Gay marriage may have a neutral or even some positive effects on the US. There are a couple of billion people in nations around the world, particularly our greatest enemies, who see it as another example of our weakness. Can't fix that I suppose. Personally I see fiscal irresponsibility as the straw that breaks the nation's back, but I'm a ' glass half empty ' kind of guy.
Ahab Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 I am generally not in favor of any law that promotes unrighteous behavior, because to me unrighteous behavior is a bad if not a disgusting thing to behold. I absolutely abhor/hate any unrighteous behavior, which is why I promote righteous rather than unrighteous behavior. But I know we all have our own likes and dislikes. I just don't care to associate or do any business with people who I know promote unrighteous behavior as if an unrighteous act is an okay or good thing to do.
filovirus Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 Helaman 5:2 2 For as their laws and their governments were established by the voice of the people, and they who chose evil were more numerous than they who chose good, therefore they were ripening for destruction, for the laws had become corrupted. The question then arises, what is the destruction talked about? Is it the fall of a nation? Maybe. I personally believe it may be a different type of destruction. Helaman 6:40 40 And thus we see that they were in an awful state, and ripening for an everlasting destruction. Everlasting destruction connotes spiritual welfare rather than political or national strength and power.
Tacenda Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 This Mormon Guy, is a brave guy. I hope he isn't on the road to being ex'd. Love what he had to say, very concise and well researched, not afraid...wish I had that security. 1
The Nehor Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 Was the prophecy of gay marriage doom supposed to take place within a decade?
Daniel2 Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 (edited) I would presume that most American Latter-day Saints will (if they have not, already) become comfortable in a very short time with the legality of civil marriage for same-gender couples. Latter-day Saints, on the whole, are very supportive of civil equality, even when it allows for behaviors with which they morally disagree (the sale of alcohol, businesses staying open on Sundays, even abortion within certain boundaries). I predict that opposition to civil marriage for same-sex couples will quickly fade into obscurity as most people become comfortable with the fact that it won't impact their lives any more or less than their own marriages impact others' lives. Edited December 29, 2015 by Daniel2 2
Jeanne Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 He is just saying..you can think, feel, and say what you want; but legally, there isn't a church that can fight the legality of gay marriage. I agree.
Ahab Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 Daniel2, I don't think any of us are comfortable about the things we don't like in this world, whatever it is that we don't like. I think we just try to tune it out or ignore it unless maybe we can do something to get rid of those things we don't like. Btw I'm not quoting what you said because for some reason my Firefox crashes anytime I try to quote someone.
VideoGameJunkie Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 Is the guy risking church discipline?
Jeanne Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 16 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Is the guy risking church discipline? I certainly hope not! See no reason for that at all.
oremites Posted December 30, 2015 Posted December 30, 2015 54 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Is the guy risking church discipline? For what exactly? You're not the first person to mention that so I appreciate anyone who could tell me what he said that could result in church discipline. From what little has been mentioned, I don't see anything. I'm sorry, but I'm not taking the time to watch a 20-minute video, so, yes, I admit I'm too lazy to do my own homework. However, what I'm really interested in is what other people think, not what I would think.
sdc999 Posted December 30, 2015 Posted December 30, 2015 7 hours ago, Ahab said: I am generally not in favor of any law that promotes unrighteous behavior, because to me unrighteous behavior is a bad if not a disgusting thing to behold. I absolutely abhor/hate any unrighteous behavior, which is why I promote righteous rather than unrighteous behavior. But I know we all have our own likes and dislikes. I just don't care to associate or do any business with people who I know promote unrighteous behavior as if an unrighteous act is an okay or good thing to do. I don't know that it promotes unrighteous behavior, it just doesn't deny unrighteous behavior. Remember that the LDS version of Satan wanting to control the outcome? Your second paragraph reminds me of a recent post by a friend who said he would never do business with any organization that had a "no guns" policy. I asked if he would be using any hospitals if one were ever needed.... There are many LDS that work in Vegas at places that 'promote' many things - and not all good. What ifs are always fun.. What if (you lived in Vegas) your bishop worked as a manager of one of the hotels (they all provide gambling), Would you serve with him if called?
Daniel2 Posted December 30, 2015 Posted December 30, 2015 2 hours ago, Ahab said: Daniel2, I don't think any of us are comfortable about the things we don't like in this world, whatever it is that we don't like. I think we just try to tune it out or ignore it unless maybe we can do something to get rid of those things we don't like. Btw I'm not quoting what you said because for some reason my Firefox crashes anytime I try to quote someone. It may be a question of semantics here, Ahab... or maybe not... I can't tell. For example, I would say that I don't like Mormonism's current stance on LGBT issues, but I'm perfectly comfortable around many of my LDS friends and neighbors. And they may believe that my husband's and my relationship is sinful, but they seem perfectly comfortable being around he and I (including inviting the two of us to sing in the ward Christmas choir this year, which we did, and enjoyed). So, I'm not sure I would agree with you that none of us "are comfortable about things we don't like." I think a great many of us learn to be comfortable with things that we personally disagree with. But, in the grand scheme of things, I'm not sure that's a really important distinction to make, either way. 1
Daniel2 Posted December 30, 2015 Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) 2 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Is the guy risking church discipline? I don't think so... unless he has a parent in a same-sex relationship (which I don't think he does--at least, nothing he's said indicates he does) while awaiting baptism (which he's not--he's already a member), he's not required to disavow same-sex marriage. Edited December 30, 2015 by Daniel2 1
Daniel2 Posted December 30, 2015 Posted December 30, 2015 7 hours ago, Ahab said: I am generally not in favor of any law that promotes unrighteous behavior, because to me unrighteous behavior is a bad if not a disgusting thing to behold. I absolutely abhor/hate any unrighteous behavior, which is why I promote righteous rather than unrighteous behavior. After watching how hatred, anger, fear, and bitterness consumed my ex-wife (and how she used it to poison our children), I decided long ago that it's too much effort to go around hating/abhorring other people's bad behaviors. Like the saying goes, it's like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies. Hatred and abhorrence are too much of a burden and just create negativity that poisons my own life. If others find happiness in ways that don't jive with my own personal paradigm, more power to them. Each of us should live our own personal truths that bring happiness and joy into our lives, without resenting others that find different answers. Just my two cents. Others' mileage will vary. 1
carbon dioxide Posted December 30, 2015 Posted December 30, 2015 Moral decay will help bring the destruction of the nation. Gay marriage by itself is not much but it is just one more sign or symptom of the moral decay of the population. Taken with everything else, the nation will fall and perhaps that is not a bad thing in the end.
DJBrown Posted December 30, 2015 Posted December 30, 2015 19 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Here is an interesting video of a Mormon who thinks gay marriage should remain legal. There is no evidence that gay marriage will destroy our nation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63LDdVhns4I I think this guys is naive. His response to the religious freedom issue is filled with "should be.......should be......." Two years have passed since this video was posted. I think there is pretty clear evidence that advocates of gay marriage are not out to simply partake of the benefits of marriage. There is plenty of evidence that the campaign for same-sex marriage is ultimately intended to change society in getting approval from all areas in society for homosexuality and same sex marriage. Ultimately, accepting same sex marriage in society accelerates the speed with which our culture embraces sin. It is telling that several of the "thinkers" in the gay community have come out and stated that the real goal of this campaign is to change marriage and ultimately do away with the institution altogether. Same-sex marriage advocates only consider the interests and feelings of adults. The interests and feelings of children are completely ignored. This guys sounds like he is a spokesperson for the same-sex marriage campaign. Every one of his points is fundamentally flawed. 1
carbon dioxide Posted December 30, 2015 Posted December 30, 2015 I think one can make a case why gay marriage should be legal. I believe one can make a case why prostitution and all narcotics should also be legal. Just because something is legal does not mean it is good or right. In order for us to have real agency to choose good verses evil, we need to be able to make free choices without immediate punishment.
Bernard Gui Posted December 30, 2015 Posted December 30, 2015 It is way, way too soon to measure any kind of effects the legalization of ssm are or will be. IMO, the most serious damage is that this makes the institution of marriage meaningless. 1
Kenngo1969 Posted December 30, 2015 Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) As much merit as there might be in many libertarian arguments, such arguments tend to understate negative externalities in my opinion. Acts that harm only the actor are, in reality, much rarer than proponents of such arguments are willing to admit. Edited December 30, 2015 by Kenngo1969
Ahab Posted December 30, 2015 Posted December 30, 2015 In my mind to be comfortable with something we don't like equates to liking it, otherwise we would not have a problem with it. I'm not talking about having a problem with the fact that we don't like certain things, though, as if we should try to like something we don't like just so we won't be uncomfortable with not liking it. I'm fine with the fact that I don't like things that aren't good.
The Nehor Posted December 30, 2015 Posted December 30, 2015 Another heretic? The Danites are really asleep on the job these days.
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