Notions of Grace, Works, the Law, and Faith in the New Testament

[Five Solas]

On 12/11/2015 at 0:15 AM, Calm said:

So do you discount scriptures because they aren't written in the last five years?

You do understand that these manuals are in current use?

And you do understand you ignored the substance of what I wrote & endeavored to change the subject.  Your readers do.  But no worries, we can revisit--

"Right.  And of these "6000 hits" - cite one that gives a workable definition (i.e., with specific reference to the New Testament usage) of the word from, say the last 5 years.

Ten years if you prefer.  Or 20.  Anytime you're ready, Calm.  The board awaits...

;0)

--Erik

PS.  It's a rainy day in Seattle.  I put Nick Drake's "Five Leaves Left" on the stereo.  So good!

[Five Solas]

On 12/11/2015 at 0:30 PM, Canadaigua said:

Would it be fair to say that the LDS position is that you have to work for your salvation?

Not sure how helpful the subsequent LDS poster posts were on this question.  But think of it this way (and none of them are going to dispute the substance of what I type):  Everyone is saved, everyone receives salvation, eternal life.  In that regard, LDS are Universalists.  (Some LDS have even questioned whether Judas Iscariot qualifies as a "son of perdition.") 

"Work" pertains to one's exaltation--i.e., what "degree of glory" you attain in the next life, any of which constitute salvation in the LDS scheme of things: Telestial, Terrestrial, Celestial, highest level of Celestial (yes, it gets a bit complicated near the top).  

If you can keep separate the idea of "salvation" (grace, applies to everyone) from the idea of "exaltation" (you work for it)--responses from knowledgeable LDS on this forum, for the most part, will make more sense.  However, LDS aren't necessarily interested in helping you keep this distinction straight, as they sometimes use them as synonyms.  Mostly, I suspect, to confuse critics or at least create a basis to argue their critics don't understand Mormonism & therefore any criticisms that follow should be dismissed...

;0)

--Erik

PS.  In the immortal words of Nirvana, "Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you"

Edited December 12, 2015 by Five Solas

[halconero]

2 hours ago, Five Solas said:

And you do understand you ignored the substance of what I wrote & endeavored to change the subject.  Your readers do.  But no worries, we can revisit--

"Right.  And of these "6000 hits" - cite one that gives a workable definition (i.e., with specific reference to the New Testament usage) of the word from, say the last 5 years.

Ten years if you prefer.  Or 20.  Anytime you're ready, Calm.  The board awaits...

;0)

--Erik

PS.  It's a rainy day in Seattle.  I put Nick Drake's "Five Leaves Left" on the stereo.  So good!

Refer to my previous posts. I provided two talks by apostles, one last year and one four years back, in general conference.

[Five Solas]

23 hours ago, halconero said:

Refer to my previous posts. I provided two talks by apostles, one last year and one four years back, in general conference.

My apology, halconero. 

If you cited an LDS apostle discussing the Biblical doctrine of "Justification," I completely missed it (and I still can't find it).   Honestly, I'm very skeptical such a thing could exist.  As I told Calm, I don't think that word much exists in the LDS lexicon (and she has yet to demonstrate otherwise).  But please be patient with me & repeat what you wrote.  Maybe change the font to a different color so it's unmistakable.  And please do be sure it includes that word, "Justification" and that it includes specific reference to the New Testament usage.  There's been several folk alleging synonyms and thereby trying change the subject, which isn't very helpful, is it?

--Erik 

You are being unnecessarily combative.

[filovirus]

2 hours ago, Five Solas said:

Not sure how helpful the subsequent LDS poster posts were on this question.  But think of it this way (and none of them are going to dispute the substance of what I type):  Everyone is saved, everyone receives salvation, eternal life.  In that regard, LDS are Universalists.  (Some LDS have even questioned whether Judas Iscariot qualifies as a "son of perdition.") 

"Work" pertains to one's exaltation--i.e., what "degree of glory" you attain in the next life, any of which constitute salvation in the LDS scheme of things: Telestial, Terrestrial, Celestial, highest level of Celestial (yes, it gets a bit complicated near the top).  

If you can keep separate the idea of "salvation" (grace, applies to everyone) from the idea of "exaltation" (you work for it)--responses from knowledgeable LDS on this forum, for the most part, will make more sense.  However, LDS aren't necessarily interested in helping you keep this distinction straight, as they sometimes use them as synonyms.  Mostly, I suspect, to confuse critics or at least create a basis to argue their critics don't understand Mormonism & therefore any criticisms that follow should be dismissed...

;0)

--Erik

PS.  In the immortal words of Nirvana, "Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you"

Not sure I totally agree with the idea that we work our exaltation. Justice and mercy always apply, we just bind ourselves to a higher law through covenant making through temple worship. So we are always bound by a law (commandments). For example, during baptism, we promise to take Christ's name upon us, always remember Him, and willingness to keep the commandments. In return we are promised the Holy Ghost. When we covenant with God in the temple, we are still promising to be faithful, just to a higher law. In return God promises greater blessings, most of which won't come to pass until after judgement and the resurrection. So in essence, justice and mercy still apply to the higher laws we agree to accept. The higher laws are there to purify (sanctify) us. When we break the higher laws, repentance is more challenging, but still possible.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Five Solas said:

everyone receives salvation, eternal life.

We do not define eternal life as salvation, but as exaltation:

https://www.lds.org/topics/eternal-life?lang=eng

Quote

Eternal life is the phrase used in scripture to define the quality of life that our Eternal Father lives. The Lord declared, “This is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39). Immortality is to live forever as a resurrected being. Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, everyone will receive this gift. Eternal life, or exaltation, is to live in God's presence and to continue as families (see D&C 131:1–4). Like immortality, this gift is made possible through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. However, to inherit eternal life requires our “obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel” (Articles of Faith 1:3).

On occasion, errors are made in using eternal life and/or exaltation with salvation and I would suggest that most members understand from the context which is meant, but doctrinally/technically speaking they are not interchangeable.

[Calm]

Five Solas, do you believe Catholics and other traditional Christians define justification in the same way you do?

[Calm]

Quote

And you do understand you ignored the substance of what I wrote & endeavored to change the subject.  

No, I don't.  I see my comments being right on point.  That you do not accept the answers that have been provided by myself and others or are being unreasonable in your limitations about what does and does not demonstrate we are familiar with the biblical context of justification (even if we do not use it the same way as some other Christians) is not something we can control.

"Lexicon" is what is included in vocabulary.  I have demonstrated that the tem "justification" is used by LDS with the 6000+ hits and thus it is in our lexicon.  Your request to demonstrate a recent usage is fulfilled by pointing out that it is in our manuals which are used at most once every four years and thus any manual reference fulfills the request for demonstrating a usage of "justification" in the last five years.  We also are constantly using the scriptures themselves including the New Testament in our classes as well as sacrament and other talks, so would naturally be using within the last five years biblical references to justification.

Your denial that our usage is the biblical definition, if I am understanding you correctly, does not impress me given my own familiarity with the scriptures.  I do not see the LDS usage as non biblical.

If what you really want is for us to demonstrate that we use your interpretation of what the bible says about "justification", I have no inclination to do so.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Calm

[Five Solas]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

Five Solas, do you believe Catholics and other traditional Christians define justification in the same way you do?

I wouldn't care to be so bold, Calm, but I'm grateful to hear/learn from any who might care to post on this topic

--Erik

[Calm]

If the biblical definition of "justification" is such a plain reading (you were the one who said/implied that, right?), then how in the world would Christians have the wrong definition for thousands of years?

[Five Solas]

20 minutes ago, Calm said:

We do not define eternal life as salvation, but as exaltation...

Eternal life <> salvation would come as a shock to Christians, Calm.  This merits its own thread, and time permitting, will have it.

--Erik

Edited December 13, 2015 by Five Solas

[Calm]

So you are not as familiar with LDS doctrine as you were representing then?  That does not come as a shock to me...or to too many others, I suspect.

[Five Solas]

Calm--is it just me or are you still not making any substantial response to the following?--

"Right.  And of these "6000 hits" - cite one that gives a workable definition (i.e., with specific reference to the New Testament usage) of the word from, say the last 5 years

It sure doesn't look like it, but I'll gladly take correction.

;0)

--Erik

[Calm]

Is it just me or are you refusing to engage with people who are giving you answers and attempting to dismiss them so you can pretend there are no answers?  You don't actually want to have a discussion, I am fine with that and won't waste further effort.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Calm

[bluebell]

4 hours ago, Five Solas said:

3 minutes ago, Five Solas said:

Calm--is it just me or are you still not making any substantial response to the following?--

"Right.  And of these "6000 hits" - cite one that gives a workable definition (i.e., with specific reference to the New Testament usage) of the word from, say the last 5 years

It sure doesn't look like it, but I'll gladly take correction.

;0)

--Erik

 

She has specifically explained how she answered.

I'm starting to question your sincerity in this discussion.  

 

 

 

 

[halconero]

There you go, Five Solas. There is my post under yours on the first page:

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/66601-notions-of-grace-works-the-law-and-faith-in-the-new-testament/?do=findComment&comment=1209568391

[stephenpurdy]

Joseph Smith said, "When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the gospel--you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave. "    HC 6:306-307

 

I look at it this way, ... without the atonement of Jesus Christ, and without grace .... there is no ladder.

We would be stuck in the pit with no way out.

 

-stephen

Edited December 13, 2015 by stephenpurdy

[stephenpurdy]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

If the biblical definition of "justification" is such a plain reading (you were the one who said/implied that, right?), then how in the world would Christians have the wrong definition for thousands of years?

 

 

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1991/06/i-have-a-question?lang=eng

Here is an Ensign article on Justification from June 1991

 

I am confused by the gospel principle of justification by faith. Can you explain it to me?

S. Michael Wilcox, instructor, Institute of Religion adjacent to the University of Utah. The words justification and faith are often misunderstood, not only by many people from religious backgrounds other than our own, but even by some Latter-day Saints. It is important to understand the doctrine of justification by faith, however, because it lies at the heart of the gospel.

Let us begin by defining justification as the scriptures define it. The Book of Mormon is particularly helpful because it often substitutes other words for the term. One of these words is guiltless. Another is blameless. These terms are usually used to identify a person or a group who have been forgiven of sins. In Mosiah, for example, King Benjamin speaks of “retaining a remission of your sins … that ye may walk guiltless.” (Mosiah 4:26.) Alma asks, “Have ye walked, keeping yourselves blameless before God?” (Alma 5:27.) And Jesus promises those who repent, are baptized, and faithfully endure to the end, “him will I hold guiltless before my Father.” (3 Ne. 27:16.)

The Bible often uses the term justification when describing the same doctrine. Paul explained to the Roman Saints that “all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

“Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

“Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins.” (Rom. 3:23–25.)

Justification, then, as defined by the Bible and the Book of Mormon, is the process by which guilt is taken away through faith in the atonement of Jesus Christ. Most students of the scriptures would agree with that definition. The confusion comes in understanding how the process of justification works.

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the words Just, Justification, and Justice come from the same root word that, theologically, refers to the action by which a person is “accounted or made righteous by God.” This process is described in detail by the Book of Mormon prophets. Appropriately, they often discuss the process of justification by referring to the law of justice.

The law of justice states simply that when a person breaks a law, he or she is punished. Alma identifies this punishment—or at least one aspect of it—as “remorse of conscience.” (Alma 42:18.) King Benjamin adds that one who breaks divine law suffers “a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence [or Spirit] of the Lord.” (Mosiah 2:38; see also Mosiah 2:36.) The scriptures sometimes call this spiritual withdrawal “spiritual death.” (See Hel. 14:16–18.)

Fortunately, there is another divine law that goes hand in hand with the law of justice that can bring about a spiritual rebirth. The Book of Mormon refers to it as the law of mercy. This law allows us to escape the punishment justice demands if a Savior will accept the punishment in our place. This person must meet two conditions, however: he must be willing, and he must be sinless. Furthermore, a propitiation for divine laws broken must be rendered by one who is divine.

Jesus Christ met all these conditions and accepted the punishment for our sins. In some way—ultimately incomprehensible to mortals—the Son of God took upon himself the punishment for the sins of all mankind. And since his sacrifice was “infinite and eternal” (see Alma 34:10–14), he satisfied the demands of justice and mercy and can offer forgiveness to those whose sins he has borne. This offer is a gift—the scriptures often use the term grace—that the Savior extends because of his great love for us.

But how is this gift given and received? The scriptures are explicit: it is received by exercising faith in him who can give the gift. An angel explained to King Benjamin that Jesus Christ “cometh unto his own, that salvation might come unto the children of men even through faith on his name.” (Mosiah 3:9.) And Paul taught that “man is justified by faith” in Christ. (Rom. 3:28.)

A recent article in the Ensign describes how that process works: As we come to Christ in faith, repenting of our sins, and covenant with him in the waters of baptism to keep his commandments, he justifies us—treats us as though we are guiltless—even though we are not yet perfect. He does this so that we might receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, which will cleanse us of sin as we repent and work out our salvation “with fear and trembling.” (Philip. 2:12; see also Morm. 9:27.) As we progress from “grace to grace,” receiving “grace for grace” (see D&C 93:12–20), we will eventually be perfected and be able to stand before the Father fully justified as one who has become like him—guiltless, perfect, and holy. (See Colin Douglas, Ensign, Apr. 1989, p. 12.)

In the scriptures, the process by which we are cleansed and perfected is often called sanctification. Those who are justified by Christ and receive the Holy Ghost are sanctified, or “reborn.” (See Mosiah 3:19; Alma 5:14, 19.) Of those who continue to the end of their mortal probation in this state, John said, “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.” (1 Jn. 3:2.)

This is the fulfillment to which the Savior urges us. He is pleased with every step we take, with every act of faith and every prayer of repentance, but he will not be satisfied until we become as Paul stated, “a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.” (Eph. 4:13.)

Unfortunately, much of the Christian world has been confused by this doctrine. Many believe that justification comes by faith in Christ’s grace alone, that an acceptance of him as their Savior is all that is necessary. But is it consistent with reason and the testimony of the scriptures and the Spirit to think that Christ would extend the full measure of his atonement, having suffered all that he has suffered, to those who merely give lip service to him? The Lord himself taught otherwise:

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matt. 7:21.)

The truth is, the Lord requires a deeper commitment than simply confessing that he is the Christ. Moses taught that God “will not justify the wicked.” (Ex. 23:7.) And James declared, “By works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” (James 2:24.)

Part of the confusion about the doctrine has been created by a misreading of what Paul meant when he wrote about the doctrine. In the passage from Romans cited above, for example, the entire verse reads, “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” (Rom. 3:28; italics added.)

A close reading of the verses immediately before and after verse 28 makes it clear that Paul was speaking of the law of Moses. In the early church there was a considerable amount of controversy concerning the need for Gentile converts to live the law of Moses and observe its rituals and feasts. The references in Paul’s writings to the “law” or to “works” almost always refer to this misconception. He was not teaching that the works of the gospel (specifically repentance and the expression of Christlike love) were unnecessary, only that the law of Moses had been fulfilled and that the works of the law of Moses were now unnecessary. What was necessary was faith in Christ, and faith in Christ was manifested by repentance and other gospel works.

In his letter to the Galatians, Paul explained:

“We have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

“But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

“For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.” (Gal. 2:16–18.)

Let us now discuss the term faith. It, also, is a term easily misunderstood. A thorough search of the scriptures reveals that faith is much more than mere belief; it involves action. Throughout the scriptures we are constantly invited to examine the doctrines and teachings of the Savior and his prophets and then exercise faith in their counsel by living the principles they teach.

Many Christians don’t understand that faith and good works are really two sides of the same coin; speaking of the one is impossible without including the other. Paul says as much in 1 Corinthians 13: “Though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. … And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.” (1 Cor. 13:2, 13; see also Moro. 7:42–47.)

Ultimately, our justification before God is a product of faith in the grace of Christ. As Nephi said, “It is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” (2 Ne. 25:23.) But the Lord does expect us to do all we can—to repent of our sins, to covenant with him in the waters of baptism, to keep his commandments, and to follow his example of love. (See 3 Ne. 27:16, 21–22.) After all, he gave everything—his blood, his body—to remove our sins from us; is it too much to ask that we give him in return our hearts, minds, and strength? And yet, characteristically, he desires this devotion of us only so that he can justify and sanctify us before the Father. To the ancient Nephites Jesus said:

“No unclean thing can enter into [the Father’s] kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end.

“Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day.” (3 Ne. 27:19–20.)

May we all Come unto Christ and be justified and sanctified by our faith in him.

Edited December 13, 2015 by stephenpurdy

[BlueDreams]

7 hours ago, Five Solas said:

And you do understand you ignored the substance of what I wrote & endeavored to change the subject.  Your readers do.  But no worries, we can revisit--

"Right.  And of these "6000 hits" - cite one that gives a workable definition (i.e., with specific reference to the New Testament usage) of the word from, say the last 5 years.

Ten years if you prefer.  Or 20.  Anytime you're ready, Calm.  The board awaits...

 

Five, you do realize the first link that Calmoriah gave had just that:

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/justification-justify?lang=eng

"To be pardoned from punishment for sin and declared guiltless. A person is justified by the Savior’s grace through faith in him. This faith is shown by repentance and obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel. Jesus Christ’s atonement enables mankind to repent and be justified or pardoned from punishment they otherwise would receive." - side note, this same definition is also in the spanish triple in the back, word-for-word, which is copyrighted in 1993. So there you go, 22 years ago as well as currently online. It's simply a ridiculous assertion that it's not apart of our lexicon. I personally taught about being justified in a lesson earlier this year on Christ's atonement  and have heard an apostle expound on this principle while on my mission.    

 

6 hours ago, Five Solas said:

If you can keep separate the idea of "salvation" (grace, applies to everyone) from the idea of "exaltation" (you work for it)--responses from knowledgeable LDS on this forum, for the most part, will make more sense.  However, LDS aren't necessarily interested in helping you keep this distinction straight, as they sometimes use them as synonyms.  Mostly, I suspect, to confuse critics or at least create a basis to argue their critics don't understand Mormonism & therefore any criticisms that follow should be dismissed...

Speaking of ridiculous assertions....No, it has nothing to do with "confusing critics" or any such stuff. What you referenced from my post is fairly common knowledge among LDS and how we think and talk about salvation/eternal life. It's more likely the off-shoot of having, as you've noted, a universalist heaven where almost all are saved by Christ... that is also based on our faith and obedience to God as to our degree of Glory and inheritance of all that Christ has/is. Believe it or not, we don't have a ton of discussions in our ward about how we can trick the critics....more concerned about maintaining and teaching the Gospel to those in the building.  

 

With luv,

BD

[filovirus]

Back in April, 2015 (just this year), an apostle and member of our First Presidency gave this message on grace in our General Conferance. He spoke of both Justice and mercy, and how grace leads us to our ultimate goal. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2015/04/the-gift-of-grace?lang=eng

Another apostle wrote this for the Ensign (Mormon magazine) in 2001. It is all about justification and sanctification. https://www.lds.org/ensign/2001/06/justification-and-sanctification?lang=eng

Here we have the BYU Religious Studies Center hosting a symposium on the New Testament. Gerald N. Lund, a member of our Quorum of the Seventy, gave this address in 2006. https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/sperry-symposium-classics/sanctification-and-justification-are-just-and-true

A professor of Mormon Theology at BYU wrote two books (widely circulated among LDS members) about justification and sanctification, respectively. Here are the link for both of them together in an eBook format: http://www.amazon.com/Believing-Following-Christ-eBook-Bundle-ebook/dp/B00CDXKBXI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1449988022&sr=8-2&keywords=Robinson+following+chris

So there you go. From church lessons, to general conferences addresses, to theological studies, to mass produced books. I would say it is a topic discussed frequently.

Edit to add: Here is our Mormon internet radio station about justification https://www.mormonchannel.org/listen/series/the-mormon-channel-qa-audio/justification-episode-25 and sanctification https://www.mormonchannel.org/listen/series/the-mormon-channel-qa-audio/sancitifcation-episode-24. Both great summaries!!!

Edited December 13, 2015 by filovirus

[stephenpurdy]

8 hours ago, Five Solas said:

Not sure how helpful the subsequent LDS poster posts were on this question.  But think of it this way (and none of them are going to dispute the substance of what I type):  Everyone is saved, everyone receives salvation, eternal life.  In that regard, LDS are Universalists.  ....

"Work" pertains to one's exaltation--i.e., what "degree of glory" you attain in the next life, any of which constitute salvation in the LDS scheme of things: Telestial, Terrestrial, Celestial, highest level of Celestial ....

--Erik

 

Existing forever is not the same thing as "Eternal Life".  You believe that Satan will exist forever don't you?  Does he have eternal life?

 

We DO believe that there are sons of perdition, so, you could hardly say that we are "Universalists".

 

Christians believe in "REWARDS" in heaven, which is kind of like our view of "degrees of glory".

 

-Stephen

 

P.S.  I disputed the substance of what you typed.

[Anakin7]

    A better understanding is that we believe in obtaining and staying in True Grace [charis] for our Salvation by way of True Faith [pistis - allegience/commitment/confidence/devotion/dedication/faithfulnes/fidelity/loyalty/obediece/trust to the Person and work of Christ Jesus. We accept/access/activate/grab hold of/hold on to True Grace by True Faith  http://www.biblestudyonjesuschrist.com/index-pc.html   .We labor for the Lord.

 

In His Eternal Debt/Grace

             Anakin7

Edited December 13, 2015 by Anakin7

[coolrok7]

Or  in another word, "Sanctification" 

[bluebell]

20 hours ago, Five Solas said:

Not sure how helpful the subsequent LDS poster posts were on this question.  But think of it this way (and none of them are going to dispute the substance of what I type): ....

As you can see Canadaguia, many have disputed the substance of what FS typed.

[Maidservant]

22 hours ago, Five Solas said:

Not sure how helpful the subsequent LDS poster posts were on this question.  But think of it this way (and none of them are going to dispute the substance of what I type):  Everyone is saved, everyone receives salvation, eternal life.  In that regard, LDS are Universalists.  (Some LDS have even questioned whether Judas Iscariot qualifies as a "son of perdition.") 

"Work" pertains to one's exaltation--i.e., what "degree of glory" you attain in the next life, any of which constitute salvation in the LDS scheme of things: Telestial, Terrestrial, Celestial, highest level of Celestial (yes, it gets a bit complicated near the top).  

If you can keep separate the idea of "salvation" (grace, applies to everyone) from the idea of "exaltation" (you work for it)--responses from knowledgeable LDS on this forum, for the most part, will make more sense.  However, LDS aren't necessarily interested in helping you keep this distinction straight, as they sometimes use them as synonyms.  Mostly, I suspect, to confuse critics or at least create a basis to argue their critics don't understand Mormonism & therefore any criticisms that follow should be dismissed...

;0)

--Erik

PS.  In the immortal words of Nirvana, "Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you"

You got to it before I did.

If I have this right, the Evangelical understanding is: the confession of Jesus as one's Savior (the Savior) is the point at which a person passes from a destiny of hell to a destiny of eternal life (heaven)--as well as a daily walk of eternal life.  Is that accurate?

So as you say, this is one difference between the brain framework LDS are coming at this from that is often a barrier in the discussions.  Namely, what you mention, that LDS do not view anyone as going to hell as a final state (but perhaps as a temporary passage).  You don't even have to believe in God.  You don't particularly have to be good and in fact can even do really bad things during earth life (assumed to be the best light you may have had at the time).  (Yes, there is perdition, but it does not apply to the general masses of the earth.)  Just the fact that one is breathing right now means that your destiny (eventually) will be glorious in some estate, as described by one of the three kingdoms.

So, yes, in that sense, that (salvation) is already 'done', and it is already done by the merits, atonement, and grace of Jesus Christ.  Nobody has to do a thing for that, not even confess Jesus (although in terms of the history of the world and as eternity progresses 'every knee shall bow and every tongue confess Jesus is the Christ').  Salvation is already given to all, by the Savior. So I suggest perhaps that LDS think there is even LESS 'work' involved in being granted a state of happiness in the eternities.

(Although the barrier is intrinsic to each believer's way of understanding and assuming the other believer must be talking about the same thing, not some conscious calculating to make debating difficult.)

When a new member of the church of Jesus Christ enters a covenant with the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost at baptism, they are at the gate of a journey.  It is a journey to become like the Savior and eventually to receive all that the Father hath: joint-heirs with Christ. (It is NOT a journey to escape hell, as this has already been done.) THIS JOURNEY IS NOT POSSIBLE WITHOUT CONTINUED AND CONSTANT GRACE.  NO ONE! can BE good without the help of their Savior.  All greater abilities of righteous living and the blessing attached to whatever laws we learn to live come only because Jesus helps us DAILY.

I agree that LDS forget a lot that most Christians do not have this exact conception of what is salvation/sanctification/exaltation (and vice versa).

So I think it's a matter of understanding what terms we each attach to what concepts (and also what is warranted per the New Testament).

As for justification, it is not a common term that is said here and there, but I have heard lessons regarding it.  It is considered to be a state preceding sanctification.  I probably couldn't off the top of my head give the particulars. So I would say that while it is not a huge emphasis at least recently, it is not completely missing in the LDS theology.