FormerLDS Posted May 26, 2017 Posted May 26, 2017 1 hour ago, pogi said: Again, eternal life is explained as both a reward and a gift in the scriptures, see my last post. I would love to hear a response. There is a new man that is born again through belief in Jesus Christ. This birth is a spiritual birth, an new life called "eternal life". Those who receive the gift of eternal life during mortality are they who endure the wrath of God the end of time and are rewarded with physical eternal life with Heavenly Father in Heaven. Those who do not receive the gift of eternal life during mortality are "condemned already" (John 3:18) and will receive the reward of debt (Romans 4:4) and reward of unrighteousness (2 Peter 2:13).
Anakin7 Posted May 27, 2017 Posted May 27, 2017 (edited) 17 hours ago, FormerLDS said: Hey it's not my Third Article of Faith, it's yours. It's easy to claim the atonement is our central doctrine, but again, if you claim eternal life is the result of "obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel", then anyone could claim that you ultimately have a selfish intent for obeying the commandments. Yes it is ours [ LDS Saints/Christians and all other Christians as well, it's just they - other non LDS Christians do not realize it ]. The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine [Jesus Christ's Atoning Blood Sacrifice for me and all of humanity past present future] is easy to claim since it is in my very Heart/Mind/Soul/Being, thank you for reminding me, though I need no reminder. Yes we obey the Laws of The New Covenant written in our Hearts and Minds [ Hebrews 8:8 ]- Faith is a Law [Romans 3:27, some translations say Law of Faith some just say Faith], Repentance is a Law that was commanded by The original 12 Apostles -Mark 6:12, Ordinances - Baptism as necessary [Mark 16:16], Laying on of Hands for the Gift of The Holy Ghost - Acts 19:1-6. All Christian and Biblical to claim eternal life as Long as we remember in our Hearts/Heads that all these Laws and Ordinances point back to Jesus Christ and His Awesome Atoning Blood Sacrifice for us. The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine Washing My Garment/Robe In His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin Edited May 27, 2017 by Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted May 27, 2017 Posted May 27, 2017 (edited) On May 26, 2017 at 1:05 PM, FormerLDS said: There is a new man that is born again through belief in Jesus Christ. This birth is a spiritual birth, an new life called "eternal life". Those who receive the gift of eternal life during mortality are they who endure the wrath of God the end of time and are rewarded with physical eternal life with Heavenly Father in Heaven. Those who do not receive the gift of eternal life during mortality are "condemned already" (John 3:18) and will receive the reward of debt (Romans 4:4) and reward of unrighteousness (2 Peter 2:13). Yes a True Belief/Faith In Jesus Christ that leads to Being Born Again and allegiance,commitment,confidence,devotion,discipleship,faithfulness,fidelity,loyalty,obedience,trust to the person and work of Jesus Christ and counting The cost to follow him - Luke 14:25-35, and endure,stand firm till the end will be Saved - Matthew 10:22, we cannot say that everyone will endure the trials, we do not know who will, will not endure. Billions past present future have not, are now, will not hear of the name of Jesus Christ and his Awesome Sacrifice for them, so they will hear the message on the other side of the veil. The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine Washing My Garment In His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited May 28, 2017 by Anakin7
pogi Posted May 28, 2017 Posted May 28, 2017 On 5/26/2017 at 2:05 PM, FormerLDS said: There is a new man that is born again through belief in Jesus Christ. This birth is a spiritual birth, an new life called "eternal life". Those who receive the gift of eternal life during mortality are they who endure the wrath of God the end of time and are rewarded with physical eternal life with Heavenly Father in Heaven. Those who do not receive the gift of eternal life during mortality are "condemned already" (John 3:18) and will receive the reward of debt (Romans 4:4) and reward of unrighteousness (2 Peter 2:13). You are not addressing my points.
Anakin7 Posted May 29, 2017 Posted May 29, 2017 (edited) The Evangelical LDS in me for Former LDS http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/whichgospel.htm The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine Washing My Garment/Robe In His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited May 29, 2017 by Anakin7
Vance Posted May 30, 2017 Posted May 30, 2017 (edited) On 5/26/2017 at 11:22 AM, FormerLDS said: Eternal life is in Jesus Christ and those who have Jesus Christ have eternal life. In 1 John 5:11-12 “And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.” Ok. That neither confirms your claim nor denies mine. Your claim, which isn't supported by scripture was, Quote Those who receive the "eternal life" that Jesus Christ gives receive His sinless perfection within their new, living man within, thus meeting 100% of heavenly Father's sinless perfection/obedience requirement. The "new man" is sinless just as if he obeyed all commandments perfectly. That is false doctrine, and is not found in scripture. Quote Those who have eternal life have Jesus Christ living within them. Those who have eternal life have Jesus Christ living WITH them. Quote Hence, those who receive the "eternal life" have His sinless perfection within their new, living man, thus meeting 100% of heavenly Father's sinless perfection/obedience requirement. You keep claiming this, but can't show it in scripture. It is not found in scripture and is false doctrine. Quote If one “cannot sin”, how is that not righteous? 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. Quote Not only is His righteousness upon us like a robe (Isaiah 61), but His righteousness is within us because HE is within those who receive His gift of eternal life. Nope, not in the way you are claiming. He doesn't put His righteousness upon us in our sins as you claim. He forgives our sins when we repent. We put on His righteousness by repenting and being obedient. Quote The Savior plainly says “I will come in to him” in Revelation 3:20: “Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.” Yes, If we hear his voice, meaning that we OBEY him, then yes, He comes to us. Quote The new inner man is made righteous, sinless and perfect through Jesus Christ. Yup, through REPENTANCE. Quote You are confusing the old man and the new man. The old man can never do enough to somehow perfect himself through worthy behavior and “obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel.” Not according to the words of Jesus, Jesus said, " but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. " And Paul said, 6 (God)Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: Jesus and Paul said it, and I believe it. You are free to say that these verses don't mean what they say if you want. But it is clear what they say. Quote “Born of God” in 1 John 3 is the same as being “born again” in John 3. This means a new life enters the world. This new life is the new man and is eternal life, sinless and perfect. It means being born of the water and of the spirit. See John 3:5. Quote Bible: “He cannot sin”. FormerLDS: This actually means “He cannot sin”. Vance: This actually means “But he can and most likely will [sin].” And what of those that fall away after they have been born again? 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Clearly, it is possible to sin AFTER you have been born again. Quote And you claim I am wresting and twisting the scripture and what I'm saying “is NOT taught anywhere in scripture”? That is what I am saying, and it is proving out. Quote The new man is sinless and meets 100% of Heavenly Father’s perfection and obedience requirement. The new man is not sinless, but his sins have been forgiven. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him. Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. Quote Imagine for just a moment how wonderful your life would be if you didn’t have to continuously try to live a perfect life and constantly “do all that you can do” in order to try to obtain eternal life one day? I have a wonderful life. God loves me, and He gives me His Spirit because I obey him. 32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. Quote Imagine if Jesus Christ offered you His perfection and His righteousness as a free gift that you could simply just take right now and nothing you or anyone else could do would ever take that life away from you. Indeed, it is wonderful! Why would I want to let the devil deceive me by such falsehoods? Why not take the sure path of obedience? We ought to obey God rather than men. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. Edited May 30, 2017 by Vance 4
FormerLDS Posted May 31, 2017 Posted May 31, 2017 On 5/29/2017 at 7:27 PM, Vance said: That is false doctrine, and is not found in scripture. While He was on this earth, Christ Himself was considered a deceiver and a heretic by those who rejected Him and His doctrine of eternal life. The fact remains, there are those who have Jesus Christ in them and there are reprobates. Likewise, there are those who have eternal life and those who do not. On 5/29/2017 at 7:27 PM, Vance said: Those who have eternal life have Jesus Christ living WITH them. What did Jesus Christ plainly say? "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." Revelation 3:20 "Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:54 What does the scripture say? "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" 2 Corinthians 13:5 On 5/29/2017 at 7:27 PM, Vance said: You keep claiming this, but can't show it in scripture. It is not found in scripture and is false doctrine. You would like so much to believe this isn't true. Yes, from the LDS doctrine point of view, what I am saying most definitely is "false doctrine". Again, exactly what Christ was considered while He was alive. On 5/29/2017 at 7:27 PM, Vance said: 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. There is a sinful fleshly outward man and there is an "inward man" that is made sinless and perfect because he has Jesus Christ! Again what does the scripture plainly say? "Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." Romans 7:20 On 5/29/2017 at 7:27 PM, Vance said: Nope, not in the way you are claiming. He doesn't put His righteousness upon us in our sins as you claim. He forgives our sins when we repent. We put on His righteousness by repenting and being obedient. This is why you do not have eternal life. You have never received HIS righteousness and HIS perfection within. On 5/29/2017 at 7:27 PM, Vance said: And what of those that fall away after they have been born again? 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Clearly, it is possible to sin AFTER you have been born again. If you first understood what being "born again" really means, you would see and understand whose faith saves in the first place. On 5/29/2017 at 7:27 PM, Vance said: The new man is not sinless, but his sins have been forgiven. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him. Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life e What does the Bible plainly say? "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him." 1 John 3:6 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." 1 John 3:9 You have no answer. On 5/29/2017 at 7:27 PM, Vance said: I have a wonderful life. God loves me, and He gives me His Spirit because I obey him. 32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. Those who do not have eternal life have the wrath of God abiding on them. "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 3:36 The rejected of the savior in Matthew 7 thought they were obeying His commandments, yet they were rejected for not obeying the Father's will. The rejected of the savior in Matthew 25 thought the works they were doing for Jesus Christ would be counted for their righteousness. They truly thought they were obeying the savior, but they were rejected for not obeying the Father's will. According to Jesus Christ Himself, what is the Father's will? On 5/29/2017 at 7:27 PM, Vance said: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. Again, according to Jesus Christ Himself, what is the Father's will?
Anakin7 Posted May 31, 2017 Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) For FormerLDS http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/christian.htm http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/everyNTbook.htm http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/tragedies.htm http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/initial.htm http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/kingdom.htm Believing in/on Jesus - http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/believing.htm The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine Washing My Garment/Robe In His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited May 31, 2017 by Anakin7
pogi Posted May 31, 2017 Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, FormerLDS said: There is a sinful fleshly outward man and there is an "inward man" that is made sinless and perfect because he has Jesus Christ! What are you saying, that the inward man has no control over the outward man? Me thinks you misunderstand the scriptures if that is the case. Are you saying that the outward man can indulge in the temptations of the flesh so long as the inward man "has Jesus"? Jesus then essentially becomes your free pass for the "outward man" to sin without accountability. "No honey, don't get mad...it was only the outward man who committed adultery with the nanny, but the inward man is innocent, because I have Jesus!" Edited May 31, 2017 by pogi 2
FormerLDS Posted June 1, 2017 Posted June 1, 2017 21 hours ago, pogi said: What are you saying, that the inward man has no control over the outward man? Me thinks you misunderstand the scriptures if that is the case. Are you saying that the outward man can indulge in the temptations of the flesh so long as the inward man "has Jesus"? Jesus then essentially becomes your free pass for the "outward man" to sin without accountability. "No honey, don't get mad...it was only the outward man who committed adultery with the nanny, but the inward man is innocent, because I have Jesus!" LDS theology does not support the new, inward man as being sinless and perfect. What do you expect from a "savior" who does not give anyone eternal life during mortality? Before I was saved, my inward man was just as dead and lost and sinful as my outward man. Before I was saved I did not have eternal life. I did not have Jesus Christ living within me. Before I received the gift of eternal life, what I am now saying wouldn't have made sense to me either.
RevTestament Posted June 1, 2017 Posted June 1, 2017 26 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: LDS theology does not support the new, inward man as being sinless and perfect. What do you expect from a "savior" who does not give anyone eternal life during mortality? I'm really kind of tired of your judgmental Calvinism. I think it apparent that these followers below are sinless and perfect: 3 Nephi 19:25 25 And it came to pass that Jesus blessed them as they did pray unto him; and his acountenance did smile upon them, and the light of his bcountenance did cshine upon them, and behold they were as dwhite as the countenance and also the garments of Jesus; and behold the whiteness thereof did exceed all the whiteness, yea, even there could be nothing upon earth so white as the whiteness thereof. The main difference between LDS doctrine and Calvinism is that Calvinists take a literal and linear reading of Paul to mean that someone who is reborn in Christ cannot sin and fall from grace. As has been pointed out to you, Paul himself warns the Church they can fall. What Paul is saying is that someone who is reborn in Christ will not sin so long as they have the Spirit, and are following Christ - not that they cannot sin. They certainly can. They certainly are in need of continual repentance. My guess is the apostles did pray for forgiveness. As they saw it, they were then without sin, because they remained in Christ. Quote Before I was saved, my inward man was just as dead and lost and sinful as my outward man. Before I was saved I did not have eternal life. I did not have Jesus Christ living within me. Before I received the gift of eternal life, what I am now saying wouldn't have made sense to me either. I believe I have life in Christ - I just don't believe it is guaranteed forever no matter what I choose to do. The Calvinist doctrine is akin to Catholicism which allowed one to buy indulgences and then go to war, and commit atrocities believing they were free from sin. The only difference is Calvinism removed buying the grace for free grace - is just exchanging the "good deal" for a "better deal." The same underlying faults apply. You are NOT saved if tomorrow you decide to kill a store clerk and steal the store's money - you are just deceived - you are no longer in Christ and lose any promise of eternal life. 1
pogi Posted June 1, 2017 Posted June 1, 2017 2 hours ago, FormerLDS said: LDS theology does not support the new, inward man as being sinless and perfect. What LDS theology does not support is pretending to be saved all while sleeping with your nanny behind your wife's back. We do not support indulging in the sins of the flesh. 2 hours ago, FormerLDS said: Before I was saved, my inward man was just as dead and lost and sinful as my outward man. Before I was saved I did not have eternal life. I did not have Jesus Christ living within me. Are you seriously saying that your "inner man" cannot control what your body does? Yes or no please. I like it when people actually answer and address my questions, it makes communication so much easier. So the outward man, known here as FormerLDS, is the same dead, lost, sinfully indulgent man as before he were "saved"? Congrats buddy, really impressive and inspiring! Just curious, do you discipline your children, if so, why? Do you expect them to obey? Do you expect their inner voice to over-rule and bridle their fleshy desires? If the inner man has no control over the outward man, why would you punish your children for outward acts that they have no control over? Just curious, how does one know he is saved exactly? 2
Vance Posted June 1, 2017 Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) On 5/31/2017 at 4:01 PM, FormerLDS said: While He was on this earth, Christ Himself was considered a deceiver and a heretic by those who rejected Him and His doctrine of eternal life. True, but not relevant to your claim. Quote The fact remains, there are those who have Jesus Christ in them and there are reprobates. Having Jesus Christ "in" them is figurative, not literal. Something that you don't seem to get. Quote Likewise, there are those who have eternal life and those who do not. Eternal life is a reward given to the righteous/obedient. It comes with the resurrection. Quote What did Jesus Christ plainly say? "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." Revelation 3:20 "Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:54 What does the scripture say? "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" 2 Corinthians 13:5 All figurative, not literal. Quote You would like so much to believe this isn't true. I know the doctrine you espouse is false. I have shown it to be so. Quote Yes, from the LDS doctrine point of view, what I am saying most definitely is "false doctrine". And according to the Bible verses I have quoted. Quote Again, exactly what Christ was considered while He was alive. Someone who threatened the power structure. Quote There is a sinful fleshly outward man and there is an "inward man" that is made sinless and perfect because he has Jesus Christ! Only through repentance and obedience. Quote Again what does the scripture plainly say? "Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." Romans 7:20 As Peter said of Paul's rhetoric, 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Oops, I mean this one. Maybe we will talk about "his promise" later. 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. You know "that the longsuffering of our Lord" is what is described here, 3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: And here, 4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, 5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings; 6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned, 7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, Quote This is why you do not have eternal life. Nah, it is because I have died and been resurrected yet. Quote You have never received HIS righteousness and HIS perfection within. You keep repeating that false doctrine. Quote If you first understood what being "born again" really means, you would see and understand whose faith saves in the first place. The faith of the obedient. If you don't have enough faith to obey, then your faith is insufficient. Quote What does the Bible plainly say? "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him." 1 John 3:6 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." 1 John 3:9 And before that is, in the same book of John, he says this, 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. You have no answer. Quote Those who do not have eternal life have the wrath of God abiding on them. Nah, very few have been resurrected so far. There are a lot of people who have neither. Quote "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 3:36 How do you believe on the Son without being obedient to Him? You can't! Quote The rejected of the savior in Matthew 7 thought they were obeying His commandments, yet they were rejected for not obeying the Father's will. Yup, they were not obedient but they thought they should be saved anyway. They were wrong. Just like so many today. Quote The rejected of the savior in Matthew 25 thought the works they were doing for Jesus Christ would be counted for their righteousness. Nope, they thought that they didn't need to do any works. They thought that they should be saved without works. Just like many today. Quote They truly thought they were obeying the savior, but they were rejected for not obeying the Father's will. Nope, They didn't do any good to anybody. They thought that they should be saved without any obedience/good works. They deceived themselves. Quote According to Jesus Christ Himself, what is the Father's will? Again, according to Jesus Christ Himself, what is the Father's will? To believe on, or be obedient to His Son. If your not obedient, your don't really believe on Christ. Edited June 1, 2017 by Vance 1
Vance Posted June 1, 2017 Posted June 1, 2017 Do you believe Jesus when He taught, 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. ???
Vance Posted June 1, 2017 Posted June 1, 2017 Jesus expects us to do alms. See Matt 6:1-4. Jesus expects us to pray. See Matt 6:5-15. Jesus expects us to fast. See Matt 6:16-18. Jesus expects us to do better than just obey the 10 commandments. See Matt 5:21-37.
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