Mystery Meat Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 I hope this is the right place to post this. I graduated from BYU a while back. Last night BYU played their rival, Utah, in a game of college basketball. During the game, a BYU basketball player and returned missionary, sucker punched a Utah player and was tossed from the game. I was very disappointed in the sequence of events. I was more disappointed, however, by otherwise good people performing all sorts of mental gymnastics to try and justify the behavior (most just hate Utah and THAT is their real justification). But why do people do that? Why do otherwise reasonable and good people go to extremes to defend bad behavior? When Max Hall went on his rant and was then more or less reprimanded by Pres. Ucthdorf in the following conference, I knew a lot of BYU fans who still persisted in endorsing Max, when in any other circumstance would stand by the Lord's anointed had he spoken on just about any other topic. I just don't get it. Sadly, I am starting to believe that BYU should just get rid of sports programs altogether. 1
bluebell Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 People are dumb. I think that's the only real explanation. What happened with Max Hall and Uchtdorf? 2
Jeanne Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 17 minutes ago, bluebell said: People are dumb. I think that's the only real explanation. What happened with Max Hall and Uchtdorf? Yeah..I am an avid sport's nut and try to watch all games..missed this.
Mystery Meat Posted December 3, 2015 Author Posted December 3, 2015 After a football game Max Hall went on a bit of rant about Utah and called the university, fans, organization classless. He said he hates them. Next conference President Uchtdorf talking specifically about sports and rivalries said we should not use that type of language for something so trivial. 2
jbarm Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) I suspect MM is also a Utah fan. A bit disingenuous to critique a BYU player during a game where the home crowd was assessed a technical foul for repeatedly throwing things on the court. Crowd shots showed same Utah fans flipping the bird and shouting f bombs at the refs. All this with a comfortable lead for Utah, I might add. Really fun to hear the student section chant F the Mormons as well (on LDS Student Association Night when the Institute Choir sang the national anthem). I would guess a lot of the folks participating in this event for Utah were returned missionaries as well. Bad behavior cuts both ways. Edited December 3, 2015 by jbarm 1
HappyJackWagon Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 "Bad behavior" is in the eye of the beholder. For example, some people view the recent policy to be "bad behavior" be the church while others view dissent to be the "bad behavior." Much of this comes as a result of varying paradigms. We don't view the world in a certain way to annoy or provoke others, it's just the way we see it.
stemelbow Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 I don't imagine getting rid of sports programs would do away with the problem.
stemelbow Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 15 minutes ago, jbarm said: Really fun to hear the student section chant F the Mormons as well (on LDS Student Association Night when the Institute Choir sang the national anthem). That sounds like a shame. Were you there and heard this or was this reported somewhere?
HappyJackWagon Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 54 minutes ago, stemelbow said: That sounds like a shame. Were you there and heard this or was this reported somewhere? It's kind of a regular occurrence at a variety of schools. The F. U. BYU slogan is alive and well. Very low class.
Jeanne Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 4 hours ago, bluebell said: I probably checked every 30-45 minutes or so on the first day offline. After 48 hours passed i lost hope and only checked a couple of times. 5 hours ago, Mystery Meat said: After a football game Max Hall went on a bit of rant about Utah and called the university, fans, organization classless. He said he hates them. Next conference President Uchtdorf talking specifically about sports and rivalries said we should not use that type of language for something so trivial. I didn't know this. Thanks for the info. BYU might turn into YBU.
Mystery Meat Posted December 3, 2015 Author Posted December 3, 2015 1 hour ago, jbarm said: I suspect MM is also a Utah fan. A bit disingenuous to critique a BYU player during a game where the home crowd was assessed a technical foul for repeatedly throwing things on the court. Crowd shots showed same Utah fans flipping the bird and shouting f bombs at the refs. All this with a comfortable lead for Utah, I might add. Really fun to hear the student section chant F the Mormons as well (on LDS Student Association Night when the Institute Choir sang the national anthem). I would guess a lot of the folks participating in this event for Utah were returned missionaries as well. Bad behavior cuts both ways. I am not about to defend Utah fans. Their actions are indefensible more often than not. But, thanks for being an example of what I am talking about. 1
Russell C McGregor Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said: "Bad behavior" is in the eye of the beholder. For example, some people view the recent policy to be "bad behavior" be the church while others view dissent to be the "bad behavior." Much of this comes as a result of varying paradigms. We don't view the world in a certain way to annoy or provoke others, it's just the way we see it. Exactly how does the policy relate to the topic at hand? 2
Mystery Meat Posted December 3, 2015 Author Posted December 3, 2015 It doesn't, some people just can't help themselves and interject. 2
The Nehor Posted December 4, 2015 Posted December 4, 2015 The difference between a neighborhood burning riot and a group of sports fans is only one of degree.....usually. I have to admit I have no idea how sports fans can so identify with a bunch of people they have most likely never met and vicariously enjoy victory through them. This sums up how I view sports fans: I guess I just don't get sports. Now I need to go yell at people on the internet for being wrong about what they think the best TV show currently on is. See ya later. 2
SmileyMcGee Posted December 4, 2015 Posted December 4, 2015 4 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said: Much of this comes as a result of varying paradigms. We don't view the world in a certain way to annoy or provoke others, it's just the way we see it. Agreed. "Good" and "Bad" seem to depend on the beliefs we hold. Rather than asking "why do people justify bad behavior," it may be more fruitful for understanding to ask "what beliefs cause this person to see [behavior] as good?" 1
Avatar4321 Posted December 4, 2015 Posted December 4, 2015 Because it's bad behavior. If they believed it was good, they wouldn't need to justify it. 1
Hamba Tuhan Posted December 4, 2015 Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) 2 hours ago, The Nehor said: This sums up how I view sports fans: Hahahahahahahahahahaha ...plop! (Me laughing my head off.) (Though I just noticed that the new software has actually cut my head -- and tail -- off. ) Edited December 4, 2015 by Hamba Tuhan
Traela Posted December 4, 2015 Posted December 4, 2015 I've heard all the stories about church basketball andwonder why that sort of behavior is/was tolerated. It's not appropriate for anyone calling themselves a Saint or a Christian.
Scott Lloyd Posted December 4, 2015 Posted December 4, 2015 12 hours ago, Mystery Meat said: After a football game Max Hall went on a bit of rant about Utah and called the university, fans, organization classless. He said he hates them. Next conference President Uchtdorf talking specifically about sports and rivalries said we should not use that type of language for something so trivial. Can you cite a quote? I recall the Max Hall incident, but this is the first I've heard that President Uchtdorf responded.
Mystery Meat Posted December 4, 2015 Author Posted December 4, 2015 6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Can you cite a quote? I recall the Max Hall incident, but this is the first I've heard that President Uchtdorf responded. "Perhaps there is no better laboratory to observe the sin of pride than the world of sports. I have always loved participating in and attending sporting events. But I confess there are times when the lack of civility in sports is embarrassing. How is it that normally kind and compassionate human beings can be so intolerant and filled with hatred toward an opposing team and its fans? I have watched sports fans vilify and demonize their rivals. They look for any flaw and magnify it. They justify their hatred with broad generalizations and apply them to everyone associated with the other team. When ill fortune afflicts their rival, they rejoice."
VideoGameJunkie Posted December 4, 2015 Posted December 4, 2015 Danny Ainge was my Bishop for 6 years and is so humble and nicest man ever, but did you see him back in his NBA days? He got into fights all the time. I got a technical foul from now BYU-I President Clark Gilbert when he used to referee my Young Men basketball games for swinging at a kid who kept hacking me all game. Mormons let their frustrations out in sports as they get heated. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted December 4, 2015 Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) 15 hours ago, Mystery Meat said: "Perhaps there is no better laboratory to observe the sin of pride than the world of sports. I have always loved participating in and attending sporting events. But I confess there are times when the lack of civility in sports is embarrassing. How is it that normally kind and compassionate human beings can be so intolerant and filled with hatred toward an opposing team and its fans? I have watched sports fans vilify and demonize their rivals. They look for any flaw and magnify it. They justify their hatred with broad generalizations and apply them to everyone associated with the other team. When ill fortune afflicts their rival, they rejoice." Alas, the quote is quite timeless due to the pervasiveness of incivility in sports. I'm not defending the behavior of Max Hall, and it is possible President Uchtdorf had it in mind when he made this remark. Nevertheless, I would advise being careful about drawing a direct and definitive connection. I think the Uchtdorf quote applies at least as well -- if not better -- to the behavior on the opposing side that apparently provoked Hall's tirade. Edited December 4, 2015 by Scott Lloyd
Scott Lloyd Posted December 4, 2015 Posted December 4, 2015 1 hour ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Danny Ainge was my Bishop for 6 years and is so humble and nicest man ever, but did you see him back in his NBA days? He got into fights all the time. I got a technical foul from now BYU-I President Clark Gilbert when he used to referee my Young Men basketball games for swinging at a kid who kept hacking me all game. Mormons let their frustrations out in sports as they get heated. Until recently, Clark Gilbert was my boss at the Deseret News. He deserves unending credit for drawing the newspaper back from the brink of extinction and making of it a thriving enterprise in the midst of a declining industry. No relevance to this thread, I acknowledge, but I want to mention that I will always remember him with admiration.
Hamba Tuhan Posted December 4, 2015 Posted December 4, 2015 5 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Mormons let their frustrations out in sports as they get heated. I think you may want to add a 'some' to this statement... 1
Maedros Posted December 4, 2015 Posted December 4, 2015 "But why do people do that? Why do otherwise reasonable and good people go to extremes to defend bad behavior?" We all justify bad behaviour at one point in our lives or another - I'm sure each of us have done this in the last 3 months (in one way or another); regarding your question about why we do it, I found the following article insightful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-justification
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