Latter-Day Saints Rejecting God's Prophet On The Earth

[mfbukowski]

Error

Edited October 27, 2015 by mfbukowski

[SeekingUnderstanding]

As sure as I know there is a God in heaven and as sure as I know Jesus is the Christ, I know that Jesus Christ has restored His true gospel in these latter days and that He leads His only true and living Church through His prophet on the earth.

Interesting for sure, but "Satan deceives people into believing his lies while convincing them that they are listening to the Holy Ghost. People are deceived because they do not know they are listening to Satan. Scriptures show us that Satan can even deceive people into believing someone is Christ. In Matthew 24:5, Christ said, 'For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.'"

 

How do you know that you aren't being deceived by Satan?

Edited October 27, 2015 by SeekingUnderstanding

[Damien the Leper]

As sure as I know there is a God in heaven and as sure as I know Jesus is the Christ, I know that Jesus Christ has restored His true gospel in these latter days and that He leads His only true and living Church through His prophet on the earth.

That's not verifiable proof and you lack solid evidence. You'd sound more LDS if you said "believe" rather than "know".

[Robert F. Smith]

I agree.  But the problem is that with the church this is not acceptable unless you keep all of this to yourself.  You are either in lock step with the brethren or you are in danger of being an outcast.  Regardless of any talks on inclusion you might of heard, the reality is that the brethren will tolerate little deviance from what they preach. There is no third way.  You are either with them, our you are outcast.

Nonsense.  The Brethren are not so small-minded, and the LDS path is very broad and tolerant.  As in Nauvoo, so also today, the vast majority of the Saints have always made the correct choice.  That some do not is to be expected.  The anti-Mormons may froth at the mouth and make outrageous claims, but most pay no heed to it.

[Robert F. Smith]

That certainly doesn't help anyone in the present moment.  If someone is Brigham Young's time was disagreeing with Brigham Young and saying that he was teaching racist opinions that were false, I'm sure they would have been told to follow the prophet...

Apostle Orson Pratt publicly disagreed with Brigham, and was disciplined for it, but his theological views are now normative within Mormonism.

 

How does one know if a current prophet is giving revelation or just opinion?

This is the prime epistemological question.  How does one know anything?

 

The LDS claim that they have a modern-day prophet who receives revelation from God sounds really great, but the practicalities don't make it seem all the unique and different from practicalities of the Catholic Pope, Joseph Smith excepted.

 

What the Pope does and what the LDS prophet does are, practically speaking, almost the same.

 

This rather deflates the claim that the LDS prophet is something unique and special.

 

Again, Joseph Smith is an exception to this.

I don't understand why you think Joseph Smith is an exception.  On what basis?  Also, it seems absurd to say that Mormons have been claiming that LDS prophets are unique, and that such a claim should be deflated.  I haven't ever said that, and am unaware of any other Mormons making such a claim -- though some yokel somewhere may indeed be silly enough to make that claim.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Robert F. Smith

[MiserereNobis]

I don't understand why you think Joseph Smith is an exception.  On what basis?  Also, it seems absurd to say that Mormons have been claiming that LDS prophets are unique, and that such a claim should be deflated.  I haven't ever said that, and am unaware of any other Mormons making such a claim -- though some yokel somewhere may indeed be silly enough to make that claim.

 

As I stated on another thread, I think Joseph Smith is the exception because he started the LDS faith tradition.  The following leaders were maintaining that tradition, explaining it, developing it, adding to it, etc.  The Catholic Pope is not like Joseph Smith because he doesn't create the Catholic tradition.  The leaders following Joseph Smith are like the Catholic Popes -- they both maintain the tradition, explain it, develop it, etc.

 

As for the claim that LDS prophets are unique, it has most certainly been my experience that LDS members claim that theirs is the only church with modern-day revelation and prophets.  The only church -- that makes it a unique claim, or perhaps better put: a claim to being unique because it is the only church that has such prophets.

 

If LDS prophets are not unique, then that means there are other prophets out there who are not LDS.  Do you believe this?  Is there an equivalent to Thomas S. Monson out there that people could equally follow?  I'm pretty sure the answer is no, which means that he is a unique prophet.

 

My claims is that what President Monson and Pope Francis do, practically speaking, is basically the same.  This means that the claim that there is something special/unique about President Monson is deflated.  You could, of course, argue that he has authority and Pope Francis doesn't, but I'm talking practicalities.  When people hear the phrase "modern-day prophet" and "continuing revelation" and then read about Joseph Smith and ministering angels and visions of God and Christ and "thus saith the Lord" they get an idea that President Monson would be doing the same things, but it just isn't the case.  The presentation of modern-day prophets seems to differ from the practicalities of it (Joseph Smith excepted), and those practicalities do not differ substantially from what the Pope does.

 

I hope that makes sense

[filovirus]

I think your comparison makes sense on paper. I do want to throw out there that we do believe that our current prophet holds all the keys of the priesthood for directing God's will on earth. So though he may not be writing more scripture, other duties are just as important.

[Tony Frank]

That's not verifiable proof and you lack solid evidence. You'd sound more LDS if you said "believe" rather than "know".

 

It has been verified and proven unto me, and I know for myself. And I will not cease to proclaim that I know.

 

Maybe these words from Alma chapter 32 will help. If they don't help you, then there is nothing I can do for you. You might try God. He can work miracles. I KNOW He can work miracles.

 

33 And now, behold, because ye have tried the experiment, and planted the seed, and it swelleth and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, ye must needs KNOW that the seed is good.

 

 34 And now, behold, is your knowledge perfect? Yea, your knowledge is perfect in that thing, and your faith is dormant; and this because you know, for ye KNOW that the word hath swelled your souls, and ye also KNOW that it hath sprouted up, that your understanding doth begin to be enlightened, and your mind doth begin to expand.

 

 35 O then, is not this real? I say unto you, Yea, because it is light; and whatsoever is light, is good, because it is discernible, therefore ye must KNOW that it is good; and now behold, after ye have tasted this light is your knowledge perfect?

 

 36 Behold I say unto you, Nay; neither must ye lay aside your faith, for ye have only exercised your faith to plant the seed that ye might try the experiment to KNOW if the seed was good.

[MiserereNobis]

It has been verified and proven unto me, and I know for myself. And I will not cease to proclaim that I know.

 

Maybe these words from Alma chapter 32 will help. If they don't help you, then there is nothing I can do for you. You might try God. He can work miracles. I KNOW He can work miracles.

 

33 And now, behold, because ye have tried the experiment, and planted the seed, and it swelleth and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, ye must needs KNOW that the seed is good.

 

 34 And now, behold, is your knowledge perfect? Yea, your knowledge is perfect in that thing, and your faith is dormant; and this because you know, for ye KNOW that the word hath swelled your souls, and ye also KNOW that it hath sprouted up, that your understanding doth begin to be enlightened, and your mind doth begin to expand.

 

 35 O then, is not this real? I say unto you, Yea, because it is light; and whatsoever is light, is good, because it is discernible, therefore ye must KNOW that it is good; and now behold, after ye have tasted this light is your knowledge perfect?

 

 36 Behold I say unto you, Nay; neither must ye lay aside your faith, for ye have only exercised your faith to plant the seed that ye might try the experiment to KNOW if the seed was good.

 

Well, I guess in that case, I KNOW the Holy Catholic Church is true, because She has done so much good for me.  She has swelled my soul, She has given me enlightenment, and She has most certainly expanded my mind.  I have received light, and I KNOW that She is good.

 

But yes, I continue to have faith, too

[Tsuzuki]

And I KNOW that Satan is the Savior of Mankind, by bestowing the gift of the knowledge of good and evil, whereby we are in control of our own destinies.

[Tony Frank]

And I KNOW that Satan is the Savior of Mankind, by bestowing the gift of the knowledge of good and evil, whereby we are in control of our own destinies.

 

I have news for you. The eternal plan of salvation was not to have a world full of naked people who do not know they are naked and do not know good from evil, a world where the only rule is do not eat from the apple tree in the Garden of Eden.

 

God's plan included Satan tempting man so that man would transgress. As it states in Moses 4:6, "And Satan put it into the heart of the serpent, (for he had drawn away many after him,) and he sought also to beguile Eve, for he knew not the mind of God, wherefore he sought to destroy the world."

[Bobbieaware]

And I KNOW that Satan is the Savior of Mankind, by bestowing the gift of the knowledge of good and evil, whereby we are in control of our own destinies.

The Lord Jesus Christ said:

“Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!”

(Matthew 18:7)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but might the following altered rendition of the above verse meet with your approval?

“Glory be unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; therefore give glory and honor to that man by whom the offence cometh!”

[MiserereNobis]

the only rule is do not eat from the apple tree in the Garden of Eden.

 

Man, the poor apple!  All these people thinking that it was the evil apple that was forbidden, when clearly it was "the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."  Little did Johnny Appleseed know that he was sowing the seeds of the devil...

 

Personally, my favorite apple is Cripp's pink lady.  Yum!  And nothing sinful or forbidden about it

[volgadon]

When Eve was in the garden, Adam climbed an apple tree

He went aloft up to the top, to see what he could see

He gazed in awe of what he saw, it made the poor man grieve

Ah, Patrick John Maloney stood there, whispering to Eve

"Ah kiss me love, and miss me love

And cry your bitter tears

My loving you'll remember now

For many, many years

Be happy love, be satisfied, I left you in the pink

There's many a man may want a bride

Maloney wants a drink"

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

[sunstoned]

Nonsense.  The Brethren are not so small-minded, and the LDS path is very broad and tolerant.  As in Nauvoo, so also today, the vast majority of the Saints have always made the correct choice.  That some do not is to be expected.  The anti-Mormons may froth at the mouth and make outrageous claims, but most pay no heed to it.

Nonsense right back at you.  There are plenty of real world examples of this.  The Sunday School teacher who used the essays in his lesson and was disciplined by his bishop and released from his calling comes to mind.   In this church if you do not agree with a current prophet's teaching, you best keep it to yourself.

Edited October 28, 2015 by sunstoned

[Robert F. Smith]

Nonsense right back at you.  There are plenty of real world examples of this.  The Sunday School teacher you used the essays in his lesson and was disciplined by his bishop and released from his calling comes to mind.   In this church if you do not agree with a current prophet's teaching, you best keep it to yourself.

Again, despite your paranoid ranting, I have never had that experience, nor (I dare say) have most of those on this board.  Of course, there will always be the rare yokel who simply can't get it right -- hopefully learning something in the process, or not . . .

[Robert F. Smith]

Well, I guess in that case, I KNOW the Holy Catholic Church is true, because She has done so much good for me.  She has swelled my soul, She has given me enlightenment, and She has most certainly expanded my mind.  I have received light, and I KNOW that She is good.

 

But yes, I continue to have faith, too

None of us can do better than that.  Deserves a rep point.

[Robert F. Smith]

I don't understand why you think Joseph Smith is an exception.  On what basis?  Also, it seems absurd to say that Mormons have been claiming that LDS prophets are unique, and that such a claim should be deflated.  I haven't ever said that, and am unaware of any other Mormons making such a claim -- though some yokel somewhere may indeed be silly enough to make that claim.

As I stated on another thread, I think Joseph Smith is the exception because he started the LDS faith tradition.  The following leaders were maintaining that tradition, explaining it, developing it, adding to it, etc.  The Catholic Pope is not like Joseph Smith because he doesn't create the Catholic tradition.  The leaders following Joseph Smith are like the Catholic Popes -- they both maintain the tradition, explain it, develop it, etc.

 

As for the claim that LDS prophets are unique, it has most certainly been my experience that LDS members claim that theirs is the only church with modern-day revelation and prophets.  The only church -- that makes it a unique claim, or perhaps better put: a claim to being unique because it is the only church that has such prophets.

 

If LDS prophets are not unique, then that means there are other prophets out there who are not LDS.  Do you believe this?  Is there an equivalent to Thomas S. Monson out there that people could equally follow?  I'm pretty sure the answer is no, which means that he is a unique prophet.

 

My claims is that what President Monson and Pope Francis do, practically speaking, is basically the same.  This means that the claim that there is something special/unique about President Monson is deflated.  You could, of course, argue that he has authority and Pope Francis doesn't, but I'm talking practicalities.  When people hear the phrase "modern-day prophet" and "continuing revelation" and then read about Joseph Smith and ministering angels and visions of God and Christ and "thus saith the Lord" they get an idea that President Monson would be doing the same things, but it just isn't the case.  The presentation of modern-day prophets seems to differ from the practicalities of it (Joseph Smith excepted), and those practicalities do not differ substantially from what the Pope does.

 

I hope that makes sense

I guess that you didn't bother to carefully read my response to you, which I insert above, again.

 

1.  I don't hear those claims of uniqueness which you seem to hear, and instead I frequently hear from both Mormons and Catholics that we have much in common in the revelation department.  You may desire deflation, while I see no need for it.

2.  Joseph Smith did not actually found a new religion, although it is true that he is famous for having done so -- a major misconception from those not understanding the LDS faith.  Joseph Smith was merely the prophet of a new dispensation dedicated to restoring the authentic Church of Jesus Christ in these the latter-days.  All his successors as prophets and heads of that Church have performed the same basic function -- hardly unique.

 

We have poorly-informed writers who sometimes declare Jesus unique as well, even though his teachings were already fully extant at Qumran before he was born, even though he preached the same moral and ethical standards as the Pharisaic rabbis, and even though he functioned in the same fashion as the well-known OT prophets.  There is truly nothing new under the sun, MiserereNobis (Kyrie eleison).

Edited October 28, 2015 by Robert F. Smith

[volgadon]

Nonsense right back at you.  There are plenty of real world examples of this.  The Sunday School teacher who used the essays in his lesson and was disciplined by his bishop and released from his calling comes to mind.   In this church if you do not agree with a current prophet's teaching, you best keep it to yourself.

Based on an online interaction with the guy where he made spectacularly false accusations such as Ezra Taft Benson actually intending for his audience to think of Martin Luther King as Hitler when he called him a communist stooge, and when he finally deigned to provide evidence that people would have though Hitler when hearing communist the author was claiming the exact opposite, I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't more to the story.

[Tony Frank]

Well, I guess in that case, I KNOW the Holy Catholic Church is true, because She has done so much good for me.  She has swelled my soul, She has given me enlightenment, and She has most certainly expanded my mind.  I have received light, and I KNOW that She is good.

 

But yes, I continue to have faith, too

 

I am glad to see you enjoyed the words of a Book of Mormon prophet. I am sure that you will find the following words most enjoyable, as they testify of the Savior Jesus Christ.

 

600 years before the coming of the Savior, a Book of Mormon prophet named Nephi wrote that the Messiah of whom the prophets had spoken was the Son of God, and he declared, “The way is prepared for all men from the foundation of the world if it so be that they repent and come unto him.”

 

Lehi, another prophet, told his son Jacob, “There is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah, who layeth down his life according to the flesh and taketh it again by the power of the Spirit, that he may bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, being the first that should rise.

 

“Wherefore, he is the firstfruits unto God, inasmuch as he shall make intercession for all the children of men; and they that believe in him shall be saved.”

 

Nephi prophesied to his people, “Behold, they will crucify him; and after he is laid in a sepulchre for the space of three days, he shall rise from the dead with healing in his wings; and all those who shall believe on his name shall be saved in the kingdom of God. Wherefore, my soul delighteth to prophesy concerning him, for I have seen his day and my heart doth magnify his holy name.

 

“For according to the words of the prophets, the Messiah cometh in six hundred years from the time that my father left Jerusalem; and according to the words of the prophets, and also the word of the angel of God, his name shall be Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

 

“And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this, ye shall in nowise be cast out.”

 

We read in the Book of Mormon that a King named Benjamin foretold the coming of the Savior about 120 years before his birth: “For behold, the time cometh and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.

 

“And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother shall be called Mary.”

 

After King Benjamin finished his lengthy talk putting forth the precepts of eternal salvation, the people responded: “We believe all the words which thou hast spoken unto us; and also we know of their surety and truth because of the Spirit of the Lord Omnipotent, which has wrought a mighty change in us, or in our hearts, that we have no more disposition to do evil but to do good continually.”

 

Abinadi, another prophet, testified to wicked King Noah and his priests, “I say unto you that salvation doth not come by the law alone, and were it not for the atonement, which God himself shall make for the sins and iniquities of his people, that they must unavoidably perish, notwithstanding the law of Moses.

 

“For behold, did not Moses prophesy concerning the coming of the Messiah and that God should redeem his people? Yea, and even all the prophets who have prophesied ever since the world began—have they not spoken more or less concerning these things?

 

“Have they not said that God himself should come down among the children of men and take upon him the form of man and go forth in mighty power upon the face of the earth?

 

“And have they not said also that he should bring to pass the resurrection of the dead and that he, himself, should be oppressed and afflicted?

 

“I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men and shall redeem his people.”

 

Abinadi prophesied that the Lord would suffer temptation “and yieldeth not to the temptation but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people.

 

“And after all this, after working many mighty miracles among the children of men, he shall be led, yea, even as Isaiah said, as a sheep before the shearer is dumb, so he opened not his mouth.

 

“Even so, he shall be led, crucified, and slain.”

 

Abinadi continued, “And thus God breaketh the bands of death, having gained the victory over death; giving the Son power to make intercession for the children of men.

“And now if Christ had not come into the world, speaking of things to come as though they had already come, there could have been no redemption.

 

“And if Christ had not risen from the dead, or have broken the bands of death, that the grave should have no victory and that death should have no sting, there could have been no resurrection.

 

“But there is a resurrection, therefore, the grave hath no victory and the sting of death is swallowed up in Christ.

 

“He is the light and the life of the world; yea, a light that is endless that can never be darkened; yea, and also a life which is endless that there can be no more death.

 

“And now, ought ye not to tremble and repent of your sins, and remember that only in and through Christ ye can be saved?”

 

Alma the elder, who believed the words of Abinadi, went among the people of King Noah teaching the words of Abinadi. He taught them about the resurrection of the dead and the redemption that would be brought to pass through the power, and sufferings, and death of Christ and his resurrection and ascension into heaven.

 

In due time, Alma returned to the land of Zarahemla and organized the Church of Christ among the Nephites throughout the land, and all those who desired to take upon them the name of Christ joined themselves to the Church.

 

Not long afterwards, the Lord spoke unto Alma these words: “Blessed is this people who are willing to bear my name; for in my name shall they be called; and they are mine.”

 

The Lord also said to Alma, “Thou art my servant; and I covenant with thee that thou shalt have eternal life; and thou shalt serve me and go forth in my name and shalt gather together my sheep.

 

“And he that will hear my voice shall be my sheep; and him shall ye receive into the church and him will I also receive.

 

“For behold, this is my church; whosoever is baptized shall be baptized unto repentance. And whomsoever ye receive shall believe in my name and him will I freely forgive.

 

“For it is I that taketh upon me the sins of the world; for it is I that hath created them; and it is I that granteth unto him that believeth unto the end a place at my right hand.

 

“For behold, in my name are they called; and if they know me, they shall come forth and shall have a place eternally at my right hand.

 

“And it shall come to pass that when the second trump shall sound, then shall they that never knew me come forth and shall stand before me. (That would include all those who have rejected the true gospel of Jesus Christ that he has restored in these latter days.)

 

“And then shall they know that I am the Lord their God, that I am their Redeemer; but they would not be redeemed.”

 

Alma the younger, after having gone about with the sons of Mosiah seeking to destroy the church of God, and after having had an angel appear unto him to admonish him of his iniquity, and after having been racked with the pains of eternal torment for three days, testified to the people, “I have repented of my sins and have been redeemed of the Lord; behold I am born of the Spirit.

 

“And the Lord said unto me: Marvel not that all mankind, yea, men and women, all nations, kindreds, tongues and people, must be born again; yea, born of God, changed from their carnal and fallen state to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God, becoming his sons and daughters;

 

“And thus they become new creatures; and unless they do this, they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.”

 

Alma explained, “Unless this be the case, they must be cast off; and this I know, because I was like to be cast off.

 

“Nevertheless, after wading through much tribulation, repenting nigh unto death, the Lord in mercy hath seen fit to snatch me out of an everlasting burning, and I am born of God.

 

“My soul hath been redeemed from the gall of bitterness and bonds of iniquity. I was in the darkest abyss; but now I behold the marvelous light of God. My soul was racked with eternal torment; but I am snatched and my soul is pained no more.

 

“I rejected my Redeemer and denied that which had been spoken of by our fathers; but now that they may foresee that he will come and that he remembereth every creature of his creating, he will make himself manifest unto all.

 

“Yea, every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess before him. Yea, even at the last day, when all men shall stand to be judged of him, then shall they confess that he is God; then shall they confess, who live without God in the world, that the judgment of an everlasting punishment is just upon them; and they shall quake, and tremble, and shrink beneath the glance of his all-searching eye.”

 

King Lamoni, a Lamanite who found salvation thru the preaching of Ammon, proclaimed, “Behold, I have seen my Redeemer; and he shall come forth and be born of a woman, and he shall redeem all mankind who believe on his name.”

 

Aaron taught the Lamanites “concerning the coming of Christ, and also concerning the resurrection of the dead, and that there could be no redemption for mankind save it were through the death and sufferings of Christ and the atonement of his blood.”

 

Aaron also expounded unto Lamoni’s father that “since man had fallen, he could not merit anything of himself; but the sufferings and death of Christ atone for their sins through faith and repentance and so forth; and that he breaketh the bands of death, that the grave shall have no victory, and that the sting of death should be swallowed up in the hopes of glory.”

 

In Mormon’s narrative, he wrote, “Thus we see the great call of diligence of men to labor in the vineyards of the Lord; and thus we see the great reason of sorrow, and also of rejoicing—sorrow because of death and destruction among men, and joy because of the light of Christ unto life.”

 

Alma taught the Zoramites to “believe in the Son of God, that he will come to redeem his people, and that he shall suffer and die to atone for their sins; and that he shall rise again from the dead, which shall bring to pass the resurrection, that all men shall stand before him to be judged at the last and judgment day.”

 

Alma instructed his son Helaman to bring the message of salvation to the Nephites, stating, “Preach unto them repentance and faith on the Lord Jesus Christ; teach them to humble themselves and to be meek and lowly in heart; teach them to withstand every temptation of the devil with their faith on the Lord Jesus Christ.”

 

Just prior to the birth of the Savior, the Lord spoke to Nephi, this Nephi being the son of Nephi, who was the son of Helaman, and the Lord said, “Lift up your head and be of good cheer; for behold, the time is at hand, and on this night shall the sign be given, and on the morrow come I into the world to show unto the world that I will fulfil all that which I have caused to be spoken by the mouth of my holy prophets.”

 

After his resurrection and ascension into Heaven, the risen Savior appeared to the Nephites and the first thing he said was: “Behold, I am Jesus Christ, whom the prophets testified shall come into the world.

 

“And behold, I am the light and the life of the world; and I have drunk out of that bitter cup which the Father hath given me and have glorified the Father in taking upon me the sins of the world, in the which I have suffered the will of the Father in all things from the beginning.”

 

And after the Nephites fell to the earth in astonishment, the Savior said: “Arise and come forth unto me that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.”

 

All of these scriptures and more are in the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon truly is a testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

Give heed to the words of Nephi, a Book of Mormon prophet who wrote, “And if they are not the words of Christ, judge ye—for Christ will show unto you with power and great glory that they are his words at the last day; and you and I shall stand face to face before his bar; and ye shall know that I have been commanded of him to write these things.”

[Avatar4321]

Dude, no one is going to read that super long post.

[MiserereNobis]

Preach it, brother, preach it!

 

[MiserereNobis]

I guess that you didn't bother to carefully read my response to you, which I insert above, again.

 

1.  I don't hear those claims of uniqueness which you seem to hear, and instead I frequently hear from both Mormons and Catholics that we have much in common in the revelation department.  You may desire deflation, while I see no need for it.

2.  Joseph Smith did not actually found a new religion, although it is true that he is famous for having done so -- a major misconception from those not understanding the LDS faith.  Joseph Smith was merely the prophet of a new dispensation dedicated to restoring the authentic Church of Jesus Christ in these the latter-days.  All his successors as prophets and heads of that Church have performed the same basic function -- hardly unique.

 

We have poorly-informed writers who sometimes declare Jesus unique as well, even though his teachings were already fully extant at Qumran before he was born, even though he preached the same moral and ethical standards as the Pharisaic rabbis, and even though he functioned in the same fashion as the well-known OT prophets.  There is truly nothing new under the sun, MiserereNobis (Kyrie eleison).

 

I did read your post, and I believed I was responding to it. 

 

1)  I guess we just hear things differently.  I'm always hearing that the LDS church has modern-day revelation and that's one of the wonderful things about the LDS church, as contrasted against other churches.

 

2)  Of course, this statement is only true if you believe LDS claims.  From the outside, it looks different.

 

Christe eleison

[Tsuzuki]

The Lord Jesus Christ said:

“Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!”

(Matthew 18:7)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but might the following altered rendition of the above verse meet with your approval?

“Glory be unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; therefore give glory and honor to that man by whom the offence cometh!”

No, it wouldn't. The knowledge of good and evil is not the cause of offenses. It's the remedy to them.