rongo Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 But you don't know that, right? I'm not trying to being argumentative but how do we know that the person just simply didn't approach their local leadership and ask them to please forward this letter in those cases?No, I'm not a fly on the wall. The letters they quote are "story" ones, not doctrinal, procedural, etc. --- the kinds one would actually send up the chain. My family has a list of other "do as I say, not as I do" GA GC talk items. These include: 1) Quoting from letters.2) Using visual aids (FP letters have consistently instructed not to use visuals in talks).3) Encouraging audience participation (Also prohibited via FP letter. Chieko Okazaki, et. al.). By the way --- I really can't stand the "tyranny of the aloha" ("Aloha! That's not good enough! Aloha! I can't hear you! A LO HA!!!!!").4) Not giving the actual scriptural references in the talk (this is an odd instruction, but it's in the FP letters, too, along with not asking people to turn to XYZ in their scriptures). Imagine if local level talks used the "close quote" things to separate quotes (as if we can't tell where the quotes begin and end)?
CV75 Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Interesting. Our stake holds an addiction recovery group on Sunday nights, and there are explicit instructions that nobody else may hold meetings at the stake center for an hour before or after they meet. I suppose that is part of the local flexibility leaders have -- not all that black-and-white, thank goodness!
Ginger Snaps Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) No, I'm not a fly on the wall. The letters they quote are "story" ones, not doctrinal, procedural, etc. --- the kinds one would actually send up the chain. My family has a list of other "do as I say, not as I do" GA GC talk items. These include: 1) Quoting from letters.2) Using visual aids (FP letters have consistently instructed not to use visuals in talks).3) Encouraging audience participation (Also prohibited via FP letter. Chieko Okazaki, et. al.). By the way --- I really can't stand the "tyranny of the aloha" ("Aloha! That's not good enough! Aloha! I can't hear you! A LO HA!!!!!").4) Not giving the actual scriptural references in the talk (this is an odd instruction, but it's in the FP letters, too, along with not asking people to turn to XYZ in their scriptures). Imagine if local level talks used the "close quote" things to separate quotes (as if we can't tell where the quotes begin and end)? I'm with you on the aloha thing. Someone just did that in a stake meeting (not a sacrament meeting type setting though) and it's so annoying. Never heard #4, at least not the part about using actual scriptural reference, though I have heard that you're not supposed to ask people to turn to the section you're reading. I suppose that is part of the local flexibility leaders have -- not all that black-and-white, thank goodness!Yes! We're coming out of a very black-and-white stake leadership and our brand new SP is very different, so it will be interesting to see what happens. Edited October 2, 2015 by Ginger Snaps
Duncan Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Our stake's ARP wed. night thing was apparently dwindling to almost no one going. So, the SP encouraged everybody on the ward councils to attend and see for ourselves what's involved and how it runs and so they can recommend it. I objected and said that ARP isn't a spectator sport and if I was in recovery I would not appreciate anyone else going who didn't need to be there and just sit and watch me talk about things-that's voyeurism. I think the problem was the couple that run it are idiots and don't know what they are doing, him more so than her. I never went and wouldn't go knowing that ward council members are supposed to be there. I don't know how it is now but they haven't said anything about it 1
HappyJackWagon Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Our stake's ARP wed. night thing was apparently dwindling to almost no one going. So, the SP encouraged everybody on the ward councils to attend and see for ourselves what's involved and how it runs and so they can recommend it. I objected and said that ARP isn't a spectator sport and if I was in recovery I would not appreciate anyone else going who didn't need to be there and just sit and watch me talk about things-that's voyeurism. I think the problem was the couple that run it are idiots and don't know what they are doing, him more so than her. I never went and wouldn't go knowing that ward council members are supposed to be there. I don't know how it is now but they haven't said anything about itYou're right. It's absolutely not a spectator sport. My wife and I run the ARP program in our stake and confidentiality is Soooo important for people to feel comfortable sharing. I've had requests from High Councilors, Bishoprics and SP members to come and watch and each time I've asked them not to. I explain why and they are all very respectful once they better understand the necessity of anonymity and confidentiality. The program isn't run like any other meeting I've ever been to in the church which is why most people don't understand the application of these concepts within the church. 1
Rivers Posted October 3, 2015 Posted October 3, 2015 You mean other than Elder Oaks saying "In earlier times and circumstances, our counsel about pornography focused principally on helping individuals to avoid initial exposure or to recover from addiction." If the Church is addressing pornography as a black/white "avoidance or addiction" issue, than that would logically lead to the assumption that if you don't or can't avoid it, it should be treated as an addiction. If you were correct, Elder Oaks could have said "In the past, the Church has never taught that looking at pornography once is an addiction. Let me discuss the different degrees of exposure we find among Church members, and how best to deal with each situation."I don't think it was ever taught that initial exposure automatically lead to addiction. But church leaders seem to be concerened about the potential addiction that one peak at porn can initialize. They have taken the same approach to drugs and alcohol. But pornography exposure is a whole lot more difficult to avoid than drugs and alcohol IMO.
The Nehor Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Yes, but I think the local leaders also have the option to "escalate" the letter up the chain don't they? I have no personal experience, but it was my impression that one could send a letter to the Bishop/Stake Pres and it might be sent up through the A70 and then to the apostle in question.Yes, it does happen. I know an elderly gentleman who got a revelation in the temple revealing a doctrine not taught in the church. He went to his bishop who had never heard of it and sent it up the chain and he got a letter from the apostles who told him the doctrine was true but it was not time to reveal it publicly and was just for him to treasure for now. 1
Stargazer Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Elder Oaks came to my BYUI stake in 2006 to reorganize it. He had recently (2005 I think) spoken in General Conference about pornography. He said he got more letters after that than any other GC talk since he'd been a general authority. One letter that really stuck out to him was from a Relief Society President who pointed out that several sisters in her ward were readers of romance novels. I don't remember exactly, but I think her point was that it isn't just men looking at porn, but also women reading what amounts to aural porn. I once conducted a survey of the formularity of those romance novels. Having looked at a few, I determined that the formula was at least one explicit sex scene at approximately page X in every book. I then checked in a number of other books (some by the same authors), and discovered that the formula holds with a charming degree of consistency. Eric Van Lustbader is a somewhat more famous author than most Romance authors, and I discovered that he had a propensity of putting exactly one sex scene in each of his novels. I came to wonder if there was some way to write a computer program that could output a complete genre novel, given parameters such as character names, and so on. I could "write" twenty novels in a year and become rich.
Stargazer Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Yes, it does happen. I know an elderly gentleman who got a revelation in the temple revealing a doctrine not taught in the church. He went to his bishop who had never heard of it and sent it up the chain and he got a letter from the apostles who told him the doctrine was true but it was not time to reveal it publicly and was just for him to treasure for now. Well? What was the doctrine? If you know this much, you must know the rest, right? OK, I really don't expect you to spill it here. You can PM me with it if you want, though. I've come up with doctrines that are currently not talked about by the Church, but I've never tried to get any confirmation from Church leadership. I just smugly go about my affairs knowing I know something YOU don't know. Or maybe I don't, and just think I do. Never mind.
The Nehor Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 I once conducted a survey of the formularity of those romance novels. Having looked at a few, I determined that the formula was at least one explicit sex scene at approximately page X in every book. I then checked in a number of other books (some by the same authors), and discovered that the formula holds with a charming degree of consistency. Eric Van Lustbader is a somewhat more famous author than most Romance authors, and I discovered that he had a propensity of putting exactly one sex scene in each of his novels. I came to wonder if there was some way to write a computer program that could output a complete genre novel, given parameters such as character names, and so on. I could "write" twenty novels in a year and become rich.I know of one case where an older lady who was a fan of bodice ripping harlequin romances wrote to a publisher because she read a story and recognized it. Turned out the author did a name replacement throughout the text and sold it again. Is was almost a decade after the second book came out before anyone noticed.
The Nehor Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Well? What was the doctrine? If you know this much, you must know the rest, right? OK, I really don't expect you to spill it here. You can PM me with it if you want, though. I've come up with doctrines that are currently not talked about by the Church, but I've never tried to get any confirmation from Church leadership. I just smugly go about my affairs knowing I know something YOU don't know. Or maybe I don't, and just think I do. Never mind.No, He did not tell me.
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