Saint Sinner Posted August 15, 2015 Posted August 15, 2015 I'm curious about when this began and when it really started to attract members of the Church.Who could be considered the first apologist?What is the first apologetic publication?If any, what are important transitions in apologetic approach?I like history so thought this would be a fun thread to share perspectives and insight.Thanks.
Brant Gardner Posted August 15, 2015 Posted August 15, 2015 Since an apologist is simply one defending the faith, you don't get very far into the history of the church without examples. In some cases, the witness are the quintessential apologists in that their testimonies supported the official story of the Book of Mormon. Parley P. Pratt does his share of defending, and Orson Pratt even more. Pretty much any early church publication was forcibly apologetic in that it defended the positions of the new religion against arguments from the establishment. 3
Saint Sinner Posted August 15, 2015 Author Posted August 15, 2015 Interesting. But when did apologetics start to become as vast as it is?I've looked at titles of apologetic essays and couldn't fathom coming up with some of the topics. But that's because I'm not very knowledgeable in this area of study.
cinepro Posted August 15, 2015 Posted August 15, 2015 Interesting. But when did apologetics start to become as vast as it is?I've looked at titles of apologetic essays and couldn't fathom coming up with some of the topics. But that's because I'm not very knowledgeable in this area of study. I think Orson Pratt and Parley P. Pratt were two notable early "defenders" of the Church. Then BH Roberts and John A. Widstoe in the early 1900s, Hugh Nibley in the mid-1900s, and Dan Peterson (his "Offenders for a Word" was probably the first apologetics book I ever bought as a teenager). and FARMS in the late 1900s. Then with the advent of the internet, you have "Shield" and FAIR and so on. Also, you have the tradition of "apologetics" among the missionaries, with publications such as "Day of Defense" boosting the faith (if not the knowledge and debating ability) of the missionaries. And "A Marvelous Work and Wonder" could also probably be considered "apologetic".
Calm Posted August 15, 2015 Posted August 15, 2015 There was a presentation at the FairMormon conference on Dan Jones, who was a missionary/apologist for the Church over in Wales in the 1840's (and possibly later, I can't remember). I will be posting it when it is up, but for now the speaker has this great website if you are interested in things Welsh and LDS, including translation of all iirc Dan Jones' extensive writing. I would suggest the In Defense of the Saints (3 parts) for a taste of it: http://welshmormon.byu.edu/Resource_Listing_new.aspx?group=Writings A lot of the early missionaries published in order to combat criticisms or misrepresentations in the press. 2
Calm Posted August 15, 2015 Posted August 15, 2015 What is Shield?Marvel or Mormon version? Mormon version: http://www.shields-research.org 2
Calm Posted August 15, 2015 Posted August 15, 2015 (edited) you have "Shield" and FAIR FairMormon (we changed our name over a year ago...maybe even two or three years...I have no sense of time, get with the program ) Edited August 15, 2015 by calmoriah
Rivers Posted August 16, 2015 Posted August 16, 2015 Marvel or Mormon version?Mormon version:http://www.shields-research.orgIt's been infiltrated by an anti mormon group called hydra. 2
sunstoned Posted August 16, 2015 Posted August 16, 2015 I think Orson Pratt and Parley P. Pratt were two notable early "defenders" of the Church. Then BH Roberts and John A. Widstoe in the early 1900s, Hugh Nibley in the mid-1900s, and Dan Peterson (his "Offenders for a Word" was probably the first apologetics book I ever bought as a teenager). and FARMS in the late 1900s. Then with the advent of the internet, you have "Shield" and FAIR and so on. Also, you have the tradition of "apologetics" among the missionaries, with publications such as "Day of Defense" boosting the faith (if not the knowledge and debating ability) of the missionaries. And "A Marvelous Work and Wonder" could also probably be considered "apologetic". I have an original copy of Day on Defense that I ordered when on my mission (Mid 1970's). I loved that book.
theplains Posted August 16, 2015 Posted August 16, 2015 Since an apologist is simply one defending the faith, you don't get very far into the history of the church without examples. In some cases, the witness are the quintessential apologists in that their testimonies supported the official story of the Book of Mormon. Parley P. Pratt does his share of defending, and Orson Pratt even more. Pretty much any early church publication was forcibly apologetic in that it defended the positions of the new religion against arguments from the establishment. I would also include the 5-volume set called "Answers to Gospel Questions" by President JosephFielding Smith. All Latter-day Saints should read them. This man really spoke and wrote withauthority. Regards,Jim
Michael Sanders Posted August 16, 2015 Posted August 16, 2015 Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdrey, and Sidney Rigdon were the first apologists and as noted by Brant early missionaries are some of the first apologists. As church printing efforts in Missouri and Ohio were launched the editors and contributors began to defend the church in print.Michael Sanders Book of Mormon BelieverIndependence, MO
Calm Posted August 16, 2015 Posted August 16, 2015 This man really spoke and wrote withauthority. And does that require you to believe him? I am not talking generically but to you specifically. Do you accept him as a prophet because of his style of writing?
mfbukowski Posted August 16, 2015 Posted August 16, 2015 I'm curious about when this began and when it really started to attract members of the Church.Who could be considered the first apologist?What is the first apologetic publication?If any, what are important transitions in apologetic approach?I like history so thought this would be a fun thread to share perspectives and insight.Thanks.You are asking someone to write a book for you. Perhaps you should do your own study.
mfbukowski Posted August 16, 2015 Posted August 16, 2015 I would also include the 5-volume set called "Answers to Gospel Questions" by President JosephFielding Smith. All Latter-day Saints should read them. This man really spoke and wrote withauthority. Regards,JimThis volume is seldom used as a source today. Since you are a non-member perhaps you should allow those who are, to answer so as not to confuse the issue about what is considered authoritative or not 1
mfbukowski Posted August 16, 2015 Posted August 16, 2015 Sorry it is a vast topic with many nuances. It's kind of like asking "Tell me about history". There are so many aspects to history- and apologetics and viewpoints about apologetics that it is kind of hard to summarize
Damien the Leper Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 You are asking someone to write a book for you. Perhaps you should do your own study.Not enough time for the research. I enrolled in university and am taking 24 semester hours. Why the snide attitude?
mfbukowski Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 The message was not to you. I have a history with this posterI don't control what others post, if someone wants to write a book let them. I have not seen replies yet We will see, I am out.
Robert F. Smith Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdrey, and Sidney Rigdon were the first apologists and as noted by Brant early missionaries are some of the first apologists. As church printing efforts in Missouri and Ohio were launched the editors and contributors began to defend the church in print............................................True enough, Michael. However, the Mormons are latecomers to the over two-thousand-year-old apologetic tradition, a tradition in which individuals (Socrates) and groups (the Jews) attempted to explain themselves to an audience which had already heard negative comments. Some Jewish intertestamental literature, including the Apocrypha, serves that very purpose for the larger Hellenistic community. As the late Cyrus H. Gordon pointed out: Already in pre-Christian Alexandria, pagan critics had begun to invoke Greek myths to discredit the Bible of their Jewish neighbours. So it was with the Jewish critics of Christianity, who claimed that Jesus "practised magic," was a heretic who misled the people, etc. So it was with pagan critics of early Christianity, who "tried to refute . . . Christian tradition by giving a naturalistic interpretation to the facts which it reported." Indeed, apologetics is a major area of study at most Christian seminaries, and includes a vast defensive literature going back to the so-called Apostolic Fathers, and much later including such classic works as Peter Abelard (1079-1142), Sic et non (“Yes and No”) (1120); Sic et non: A Critical Edition, Blanche B. Boyer and Richard McKeon, eds. (Univ. of Chicago Press, 1976), which sets out opposing scriptural and theological statements, and proposes ways of reconciling the apparent contradictions. Edited August 17, 2015 by Robert F. Smith 1
Damien the Leper Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) The message was not to you. I have a history with this posterI don't control what others post, if someone wants to write a book let them. I have not seen replies yet We will see, I am out.I know. I was messing with you, Mark. It was my way of showing a little interest. Love ya buddy!ETA: I'm taking several philosophy classes this semester. Can I pick your brain if the need arises? Edited August 17, 2015 by Valentinus
mfbukowski Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) Duplicate Edited August 17, 2015 by mfbukowski
KevinG Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 You have to go back to Alma for the origins of Mormon apologetics. Alma 30:32 Now Alma said unto him: Thou knowest that we do not glut ourselves upon the labors of this people; for behold I have labored even from the commencement of the reign of the judges until now, with mine own hands for my support, notwithstanding my many travels round about the land to declare the word of God unto my people.
mfbukowski Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 I know. I was messing with you, Mark. It was my way of showing a little interest. Love ya buddy!ETA: I'm taking several philosophy classes this semester. Can I pick your brain if the need arises?heck yeah!
mfbukowski Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 You have to go back to Alma for the origins of Mormon apologetics. Alma 30:32 Now Alma said unto him: Thou knowest that we do not glut ourselves upon the labors of this people; for behold I have labored even from the commencement of the reign of the judges until now, with mine own hands for my support, notwithstanding my many travels round about the land to declare the word of God unto my people.And Paul's epistles and the whole history of theology! 1
Saint Sinner Posted August 17, 2015 Author Posted August 17, 2015 The message was not to you. I have a history with this posterI don't control what others post, if someone wants to write a book let them. I have not seen replies yet We will see, I am out.I tried to look at my past posts but it only goes back to when I started posting a few weeks ago. I don't recall a history with you. If I was rude, unkind, etc. then I sincerely apologize. I'm not the person I was 6 years ago.
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