drums12 Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 when I first scanned this blog post, I thought it was condescending. Upon a second reading, I find some of the sentiments appropriate. However, I can't understand the implication that president Packer was the cause of so much hurt. Did he get involved in disciplinary actions when he shouldn't have? Did he really tell D. Michael Quinn that "the trouble with historians is you focus too much on the truth (paraphrasing)?" I don't know. I wasn't there. He was a man. Like all men, he was probably guilty of unrighteous dominion at one time or another. But this week I have seen some hateful comments that just blow my mind. To his credit, Waterman doesn't join that club. However, the overall tone seems akin to talking about a deceased criminal....realizing all the hurt he caused but still needing to forgive. Give me a break. http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2015/07/why-i-grieve-for-boyd-k-packer.html
Kenngo1969 Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 Yeah, makes me glad he won't "grieve" for me when I die. 1
Popular Post Kenngo1969 Posted July 14, 2015 Popular Post Posted July 14, 2015 P.S.: It's hard to not pass judgement on Waterman, since he passes so much judgement himself. 5
Avatar4321 Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 Still seems extremely condescending to me. I loved president packers. He was a good and kind man and most of the blog was acting like he was a monster. 1
Popular Post Calm Posted July 14, 2015 Popular Post Posted July 14, 2015 Waterman sounds almost like he is gloating over the nasty things said about President Packer. So considerate of him to think that Pres. Packer was changing into a man he could approve of. Too bad he didn't live longer so Waterman could actually like him. Not impressed. 9
Avatar4321 Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 Maybe if he had listened to what he said and gotten to know Him he would have had a better opinion.
Tacenda Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) I wonder how he knows that some were harmed over what Pres. Packer said in conference. Not saying it didn't happen, just wondering if there are individual cases. Edited July 14, 2015 by Tacenda
Kenngo1969 Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 Sorry about the multiple posts. I was on a mobile device and couldn't edit.
MDalby Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) You can’t please God without upsetting Satan.(Richard G. Scott, GC, October 1994) 4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. (James 4:4) I guess one way to measure the effectiveness of one of the Lord's servants is how much their actions offend the world. Edited July 14, 2015 by MDalby 3
Scott Lloyd Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 Waterman ought to be grieving over his own perilous situation and repenting in abject humility. 2
MDalby Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 Waterman ought to be grieving over his own perilous situation and repenting in abject humility. People that don't get it, don't get, that they don't get it. Strange as it may appear at first thought, yet it is no less strange than true, that notwithstanding all the professed determination to live godly, apostates after turning from the faith of Christ, unless they have speedily repented, have sooner or later fallen into the snares of the wicked one, and have been left destitute of the Spirit of God, to manifest their wickedness in the eyes of multitudes. (Joseph Smith) 3
tonie Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 Waterman ought to be grieving over his own perilous situation and repenting in abject humility. It is sad to see people leave, especially on the terms in which he left. I hope that he can find the necessary humility as well.
Damien the Leper Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 "To the One", "To the All Church Coordinating Council" and "For the Young Men Only" were and are reprehensible but there is a great deal of good in much of his other works. I won't miss him but I am sorry for the loss of an important spiritual leader for Mormons.
Teancum Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 Waterman ought to be grieving over his own perilous situation and repenting in abject humility.I am sure he would give you similar advice,
Avatar4321 Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 Waterman ought to be grieving over his own perilous situation and repenting in abject humility.But it's not his fault in his mind. It's the president packers of the church and local leaders that cause people to be excommunicated.
Scott Lloyd Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 "To the One", "To the All Church Coordinating Council" and "For the Young Men Only" were and are reprehensible but there is a great deal of good in much of his other works. I won't miss him but I am sorry for the loss of an important spiritual leader for Mormons.Your expression of condolence is ever so touching. By the way, I quite like "For Young Men Only." I like the part where he empowers them to use any means necessary to resist sexual assault. The other two I'm not well acquainted with. 2
Damien the Leper Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 Your expression of condolence is ever so touching. By the way, I quite like "For Young Men Only." I like the part where he empowers them to use any means necessary to resist sexual assault. The other two I'm not well acquainted with.Nice reinterpretation, Scott.
Scott Lloyd Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 Nice reinterpretation, Scott. It is not I but President Packer's latter-day adversaries who have done the reinterpreting. Only I would call what they do by another term: distortion. 1
Avatar4321 Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 Did y'all read the comments? <<shakes head>>It's amazing how many people seem to think President Packer had no authority to direct the Saints when the Lord had Him ordained to the Apostleship.If the Apostles don't have authority from God, who does? 1
Avatar4321 Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 Your expression of condolence is ever so touching. By the way, I quite like "For Young Men Only." I like the part where he empowers them to use any means necessary to resist sexual assault. The other two I'm not well acquainted with.Found one of them "To all the church coordinating councils"http://www.lds-mormon.com/face.shtmlI see absolutely nothing objectionable about it. In fact, it's very wise. Take this for example"Only when they have some knowledge of the plan of redemption will they understand the supposed inequities of life. Only then will they understand the commandments God has given us. If we do not teach the plan of redemption, whatever else we do by way of programs and activities and instructions will not be enough."God gave unto them commandments, after having made known unto them the plan of redemption." We face invasions of the intensity and seriousness that we have not faced before. There is the need now to be united with everyone facing the same way. Then the sunlight of truth, coming over our shoulders, will mark the path ahead. If we perchance turn the wrong way, we will shade our eyes from that light and we will fail in our ministries.God grant that a testimony of the redemption and knowledge of the doctrine will be so fundamentally in our minds and in our hearts that we will move forward with his approval. This Church will prevail. There is no power in existence that can thwart the work in which we are engaged. Of that I bear witness, and of him who is our redeemer I bear witness in the name of Jesus Christ, amen."I've found that this is often the case. Take half the discussions about homosexual behavior. We get bombarded with arguments that it's natural and thus it's perfectly alright to alright to satiate natural urges that are "impossible" to overcome.Yet, we are taught clearly in the scriptures that our nature is fallen. That the natural man is an enemy to God and that all men must be born again and put off the natural man through the power of the atoning grace of Jesus Christ.We are taught that all of us need our natures changed and that by relying on Christ they can be. My nature used to be extremely angry, sarcastic, and extremely negative. I've used the atonement and trusted in christ and I've obtained power to change my natural inclinations. I'm not claiming perfection by any means but I've seen how Christ has changed my nature. He has given me peace, hope, and a much easily time being genuine.We need to be teaching about and using the power of Christ ro change our lives. not just in word or even by deed, but the very nature of who we are. That is what we are called to do.I don't see how president packers is wrong, evil, or hateful for teaching that. We either believe in Christ and the plan of redemption and understand the importance of keeping the commandments or we don't. The thing is as long as we have a sincere desire to believe, we can. 3
aurelio Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 You can’t please God without upsetting Satan.(Richard G. Scott, GC, October 1994) 4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. (James 4:4) I guess one way to measure the effectiveness of one of the Lord's servants is how much their actions offend the world. I think that is an excellent comment. Christ brings this up, personally. The Lord's servants offend the world, especially when the world does not want to be led by Christ. 1
Alan Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) I read Waterman's blog about Pres. Packer. Say's more about Rock than it does about Packer. I think he is in the process of completely losing the plot; which tends to be the lot of most apostates. He needs to get out more methinks. Edited July 15, 2015 by Alan 2
mnn727 Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 It's amazing how many people seem to think President Packer had no authority to direct the Saints when the Lord had Him ordained to the Apostleship.If the Apostles don't have authority from God, who does?According to many of the commentors on the article, no one does.
RockWaterman Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 People that don't get it, don't get, that they don't get it. Strange as it may appear at first thought, yet it is no less strange than true, that notwithstanding all the professed determination to live godly, apostates AFTER TURNING FROM THE FAITH OF CHRIST, unless they have speedily repented, have sooner or later fallen into the snares of the wicked one, and have been left destitute of the Spirit of God, to manifest their wickedness in the eyes of multitudes. (Joseph Smith)Although there are plenty of people labeled "apostates" that have turned from their former faith in Christ, I am not among that number, MDalby. Perhaps that may be one reason I don't "get" your labeling me as such. My faith in Christ has never been questioned.
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