Book Of Mormon Dna, Artifacts, Linguistic, Cultural, Evidence

[Tom m]

The evidence is attached

Book of Mormon Evidence.txt

[Tom m]

The pictures will not show how do you copy paste on this darn forum

[Calm]

A suggestion....

 

If you want people to make the effort to read your evidence, you should take the time to proofread it and correct your spelling and grammatical errors to make it easier to read.

 

Also put spacing between all your paragraphs, rather than just some of them.

[omni]

The evidence is attached

Just one or two minor tweaks and you'll have scores of journals soliciting you for publication.

[cynth]

Tom,

 

You just tried this in another forum and it went horribly.  What are you doing?

[The Nehor]

Sometimes I think I am not doing as much with my life as I should.

Then I see people spend their time writing this kind of drivel and mass spamming an Internet forum to generate enough posts so they can unashamedly share it with the world (switch to Julia Roberts singing) and then I don't feel so bad.

[Bobbieaware]

The evidence is attached

Like Calmoriah says, your presentation is a bit hard to wade through and it could use some editing. But looking beyond the imperfections, I'm always interested to read historical accounts from early North America of the sort you have collected here.

With an advocacy of the heartland theory model for the Book of Mormon, I'm sorry to say it's likely you won't find many allies on this board. There are many folks here who are too invested the mesoamerican model to give up on it after advocating for that position for so many years.

While I'm deliberately keeping an open mind on the subject until the Lord himself uncovers the mystery of where the Book of Mormon peoples lived, I must say I have always found it particularly compelling that the prophet Moroni spent time in North Ametica and that he buried the Book of Mormon plates and other artifacts in what is now western New York State. It always seemed unlikely to me that Moroni would have carried the heavy Book of Mormon plates and others articles from somewhere in Mesoamerica all the way up to the borders of present-day Canada. For that reason, a North American model seems a bit more likely. But I still try to keep an open mind because the Lord tells us with him all things are possible, even one man being able to get over a hundred pounds of stuff from somewhere in Mesoamerica up to present-day Manchester, New York.

But whatever the ultimate truth turns out to be, thanks for posting such interesting information.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Bobbieaware

[Calm]

It always seemed unlikely to me that Moroni would have carried the heavy Book of Mormon plates and others articles from somewhere in Mesoamerica all the way up to the borders of present-day Canada.

 

So you think it would have been easier for God to made arrangements for the Restoration to have occurred in Mesoamerica, Joseph Smith to have been born there, etc?

 

I know of one LDS individual who believes the plates, etc. were buried at their resting place not that long before Joseph Smith uncovered them by the resurrected Moroni.  If so, Moroni wouldn't have spent much time carrying them after all...assuming there were other ways for a resurrected Moroni to bring them north besides walking with them there.

Edited July 1, 2015 by calmoriah

[Bobbieaware]

So you think it would have been easier for God to made arrangements for the Restoration to have occurred in Mesoamerica, Joseph Smith to have been born there, etc?

 

I know of one LDS individual who believes the plates, etc. were buried at their resting place not that long before Joseph Smith uncovered them by the resurrected Moroni.  If so, Moroni wouldn't have spent much time carrying them after all...assuming there were other ways for a resurrected Moroni to bring them north besides walking with them there.

Easier for Moroni.

[Robert F. Smith]

Sometimes I think I am not doing as much with my life as I should.

Then I see people spend their time writing this kind of drivel and mass spamming an Internet forum to generate enough posts so they can unashamedly share it with the world (switch to Julia Roberts singing) and then I don't feel so bad.

I think that you have in mind Julie Andrews.  Not even sure that Julia Roberts can sing, although she does have a high pitched giggle.

[Robert F. Smith]

The evidence is attached

Hi, Tom.

My recommendation would be that you download a free word-processing program from the internet.  Apache Open Office is good.  Certainly much better than "notepad," which is what you used for the attached document.  Notepad is good for taking notes as you read, but you might be much better off just copying stuff from the internet and pasting it directly into your formal Open Office document.

 

Open Office will require some learning, but the learning curve is not steep, and the benefits are enormous.  For Example, you can insert all documentation into footnotes, you can insert margins, headings, etc., which will make your document much easier to read.  Let me know if you run into trouble in making that transition.  Usually the solutions are simple enough.

All the best,

Bob

[Calm]

Apparently Julia Roberts sang in the movies "Pretty Woman" and "Stepmom".

[Robert F. Smith]

Apparently Julia Roberts sang in the movies "Pretty Woman" and "Stepmom".

Perhaps so, although I cannot recall that.  Was she any good?

 

The Nehor did refer to "then I don't feel so bad," which is a line from a Julie Andrews song in "The Sound of Music."

[bjw]

I hope he gets the kinks ironed out on this, because the text file was an interesting document. A few of the things sound like things I've heard before, but it would be good to have this much BoM apologetics consolidated into one document.

[Tacenda]

Since I'm on "limited", it won't let me open attached documents. This has definitely peaked my interest.

[rodheadlee]

I hope he gets the kinks ironed out on this, because the text file was an interesting document. A few of the things sound like things I've heard before, but it would be good to have this much BoM apologetics consolidated into one document.

I did a copy and paste into MS Word and it came out fine except the footnotes/

[Tom m]

This forum will not let me post the evidence in a Microsoft word document so I had to use note pad.

You will see that it provides evidence for swords, chariots, horses, elephants, breast plates, woven cloth, etc

[The Nehor]

I think that you have in mind Julie Andrews.  Not even sure that Julia Roberts can sing, although she does have a high pitched giggle.

Now I have a vision of Julia Roberts singing it in my head and think I will stick with it.

[Robert F. Smith]

This forum will not let me post the evidence in a Microsoft word document so I had to use note pad.

You will see that it provides evidence for swords, chariots, horses, elephants, breast plates, woven cloth, etc

Tom.  You can easily convert your Microsoft Word doc to an Adobe pdf, which can be used on this board.  Just select the Save As and then select pdf.  Adobe Reader can be downloaded free.

Try it  out.

Bob

[sunstoned]

This forum will not let me post the evidence in a Microsoft word document so I had to use note pad.

You will see that it provides evidence for swords, chariots, horses, elephants, breast plates, woven cloth, etc

Tom, I think you need to review the definition what scientific evidence is.  There might very well be supporting evidence for the BoM, but your document serves only as a clear example of how your assertions may go beyond the scientific evidence.

[bjw]

Tom, I think you need to review the definition what scientific evidence is.  There might very well be supporting evidence for the BoM, but your document serves only as a clear example of how your assertions may go beyond the scientific evidence.

This is something I learned about when I took an anthropology class that covered the origins issue. In order for something to be considered "scientific" I was always told it must meet two criteria: be falsifiable under laboratory conditions, and be subject to peer review by a disinterested third party. So, we were always cautioned to be careful what we call scientific when writing papers. I would say some of these things are good evidence for the LDS argument, but only a few may actually be scientific if we are splitting hairs.

[Brant Gardner]

Tom M -

So far you haven't received any specific comments on the contents of your document. I suspect that you are not particularly interested in updating your understanding, so I'll make a couple of notes for other people who might wade through the information.

The first major issue is that everything in the article is out of date. That might be less important for historical information, but critical for the DNA issues. The evidence is built on the presumption of the lack of Haplotype X in Asia--except that it has been found. Not being a scientist who really understands the data I have to rely on those who do--but they tell me that the evidence does not support the conclusions proposed in this paper (and that is before we deal with the issue of timing).

The archaeological information is also difficult to use. The information comes from the early 1800's, which is long before modern archaeology. The various reports of coins and large bodies are symptomatic of the problematic nature of those early reports. They have not been confirmed. Using reports from that time period as though it is actual evidence shows a lack of understanding of the nature of the historical records.

The use of the native legends is also used uncritically. It is very difficult to know when the very Christian sounding legends might have been aboriginal or whether they are the result of the Christian interpretation created by the recorder. Most that I have investigated are the latter.

So, yes, there is evidence presented that comes from books or other citable sources, but they are not up to date and in most cases have been contradicted by more recent work (that has nothing to do with LDS scholars or the Book of Mormon).

[cinepro]

The evidence is attached

 

Brant can obviously go into more detail as to why your "evidence" might not carry too much weight, but I would point out that it seems to be very focused North-American locations and peoples, and this will be strongly objected to by those who support a more southern geography for Book of Mormon locations.

[Brant Gardner]

Brant can obviously go into more detail as to why your "evidence" might not carry too much weight, but I would point out that it seems to be very focused North-American locations and peoples, and this will be strongly objected to by those who support a more southern geography for Book of Mormon locations.

Well, yes--but not because of the difference. It is because of the evidence. Bad evidence for a more southern geography is also bad evidence.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Feelin' the love yet, Tom?

 

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