Why All The Locked Threads?

[Buckeye]

Yeah I can hardly wait. OF course I am sure you will disagree with them if the don't vote the way you are expecting?

 

Um, logically how could it be any other way. If the court sides with a view different from mine, then of course I disagree with them. That's the same with everyone, no? At least unless the court provides reasoning which changes my/our view.

[The Nehor]

I just assumed the board was run by the International Jewish conspiracy. Was I wrong?

Edited April 10, 2015 by The Nehor

[Buckeye]

My punishment for doing nothing without any explanation is I can't make any new threads. If I want to talk about a topic, I have to search in the past to find a thread that closely resembles what I want to talk about. Is this the message about the church that the mods want to send? I hope they answer yes on their temple recommend questions when asked if they are honest in their dealings with their fellow man.

 

Just a thought, but challenging the mods' temple worthiness is what missionaries call the "less effective" way to get on their good side.

 

PS - I personally have no beef with Pahoran, though we often disagree.

[Daniel2]

See post #177 on the thread, "General Conference: Moving Away From Traditional Marriage Definition?"

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/65146-general-conference-moving-away-from-traditional-marriage-definition/page-9

After reading that thread, it appears to me that it was probably Pahoran's suggestion of violence towards LDS leadership that caused his removal. I can certainly understand drawing a line at such language.

[Bobbieaware]

Bobbieware

 

I understand your frustration. I don't think you understand mine. I am happy to endorse your right to find religious truth through the means that the LDS Church teaches no matter how flawed I think it is.  And I endorse it as valid.... for you and only you.

 

What I struggle with is the condemnation you and others heap on my head for seeking in a different way and me trying to explain why as well as delve into the effectiveness of both ways.  I don't think you validate my approach at all.   You just toss me in the Korihor camp.  Thus I continue to point out the flaws I see in the methods promoted that rely on faith on supernatural and personal only revelation.

Your approach is fine with me as, no doubt, when the truth is inevitably revealed to you (it must be revealed to all eventually) your present state of mind and attitude will help you appreciate the blessing of finally knowing. Sooner or later, who and what you are now will become a part of your sacred personal journey into enlightenment.

But what I would appreciate you understanding is that I as a believer know by the scriptures that so-called signs and worldly forms evidence don't convince and convert. For instance, if it was announced to the world that the Book of Mormon plates have been placed into the custody of President Monson and he was commanded by the angel Moroni to put the plates on display in various venues worldwide for all to see, it would cause a stir for a few days and then very soon all the fuss would be put aside and the world would continue on unabated in its downward spiral toward spiritual oblivion, only now with the threat of even greater condemnation falling upon their heads. Some would say it's just an elaborate hoax, and others would say it's merely one of the mighty signs of the devil's power prophesied to occur in the last days. And just like the wicked Nephites who witnesses the prophesied day and night and day without darkness, who backed off on their murderous intentions for a short while until they began to re-descended into spiritual darkness with even greater fervor and ferocity, the appearance of the golden plates would only server to further darken and condemn the minds of the unbelievers.

So if you want worldly evidence, my advice would be for you to seek it out on your own and not press believers to produce that which God in his wisdom has forbidden. In answer to the sign seekers of his day, the Savior said the only sign of evidence they would receive is the sign of his resurrection, and since they didn't get to witness the Lord rise from the dead they even had to accept that on faith. For the faithful, Moroni's promise more than suffices; for those who lack faith, nothing will suffice, for without the confirmation of the Spirit all is doubt.

[ALarson]

Your approach is fine with me as, no doubt, when the truth is inevitably revealed to you (it must be revealed to all eventually) your present state of mind and attitude will help you appreciate the blessing of finally knowing. Sooner or later, who and what you are now will become a part of your sacred personal journey into enlightenment.

Bobbieaware, I like your posts, but you do know that many believe this will happen to you vs. happening to them, right?

[carbon dioxide]

After reading that thread, it appears to me that it was probably Pahoran's suggestion of violence towards LDS leadership that caused his removal. I can certainly understand drawing a line at such language.

To me he is just posing a hypothetical not that he is suggesting it.  My 2 cents it is worth a ban from the thread or temp ban.  I would give him another chance unless he has done this many times before.

[why me]

The thing that surprises me is why in the whole incredibly fascinating world of Mormonism there so few really interesting threads of late, aside from the redundant and now boringly repetitive "gay oriented" threads. It's as if the board participants are either too lazy to bother posting an interesting thread topic or lack the insight to know what subjects or questions would make for an engaging discussion.

 

Unfortunately, we have a lot of members on limited. These people cannot post new threads so it is sort of like being disfellowhipped. I would love to start threads because I have a lot of interesting things to post new threads with. But I can't do it. Likewise for many others. So, there is a problem with the amount of posters who post on the board. The small number of posters have run out of things to say to start threads. So, we have a lot of gay threads and other threads of that our repetitive. Also, it seems that the board dynamics have changed. It is more prone toward being critical of the lds church. The defenders need to be careful of their wording and aggressiveness. But this is only my take on it. Much depends on who owns the board and the stress that they wish to put on the board direction.

 

Hopefully, those on limited ( disfellowshipment) will be brought back to full fellowship. But...

Edited April 10, 2015 by why me

[ttribe]

To me he is just posing a hypothetical not that he is suggesting it.  My 2 cents it is worth a ban from the thread or temp ban.  I would give him another chance unless he has done this many times before.

 

There's a lot of history there...years' worth.  This type of hyperbole is nothing new.

[Damien the Leper]

Pahoran and I seldom agree on anything. I love him for his conviction and his manner of dealing with antis often makes me laugh with joy. He is snide, snarky, a complete jerk, etc. I'd buy him a beer and kick back with him.

Russell C. McGregor is Pahoran. Ms. Jack has revealed this on many occasions and specifically. On her Clobberblog.

[ttribe]

Pahoran and I seldom agree on anything. I love him for his conviction and his manner of dealing with antis often makes me laugh with joy. He is snide, snarky, a complete jerk, etc. I'd buy him a beer and kick back with him.

Russell C. McGregor is Pahoran. Ms. Jack has revealed this on many occasions and specifically. On her Clobberblog.

 

Pretty sure he's revealed that himself more than once.

[why me]

To me he is just posing a hypothetical not that he is suggesting it.  My 2 cents it is worth a ban from the thread or temp ban.  I would give him another chance unless he has done this many times before.

I think that he began to post from frustration. I am sure that it wasnt easy for him to read all the criticisms about the lds church from lds members. I noticed that he was becoming much more aggressive in dealing with such posters. I know that it wasnt easy for him to see such negativity from lds members. He was more used to having exlds and critics post negative comments. Not easy to read the same negativity coming from members. Years ago he helped me greatly in how he countered critics when this board was a FAIR board. He was curt but to the point. I owe him much if I go back 11 years ago. Sad to see him go with the wind.

[Scott Lloyd]

Two things:

First, I see a sock puppet as being one who posts under two or more screen names for the purpose of deception. I don't see Pahoran as doing that with his new screen name.

Second, I'm inclined to stick around <so long as> Pahoran is permitted to continue and does continue posting under his new screen name.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Oh I have no problem staying on Limited and accepting it, but you'd think it would be common courtesy from a mod who did it to send a message explaining why. I just found out about my "punishment" from trying to make a thread and realizing I couldn't. Was I put on limited because I was making too many threads? If they could just answer I'd be satisfied.

[Damien the Leper]

Pretty sure he's revealed that himself more than once.

True. But I first learned from Jack.

[Damien the Leper]

Scott, view his profile. It isn't a new username.

[tonie]

Two things:

First, I see a sock puppet as being one who posts under two or more screen names for the purpose of deception. I don't see Pahoran as doing that with his new screen name.

Second, I'm inclined to stick around <so long as> Pahoran is permitted to continue and does continue posting under his new screen name.

His first post (2010) he gives an indication that he was permitted to create a persona based on his real name.

If there is/was deception it is towards everyone who was unaware.

Edited April 10, 2015 by tonie

[ttribe]

Scott, view his profile. It isn't a new username.

 

 

His first post (2010) he gives an indication that he was permitted to create a persona based on his real name.

If there is/was deception it is towards everyone who was unaware.

 

Pretty sure the mods were not clueless on this. Russell/Pahoran has been a known quantity on LDS-themed boards for a very long time.  Nor do I think Russell/Pahoran was attempting to deceive anyone by posting under the new username (for that very same reason).  That being said, I'm guessing he was trying to thumb his nose at the powers that be a little for the disciplinary action they took against him.

[Tacenda]

This board has helped me immensely.  But I'm unsure as to if I've reciprocated as much, not fishing here, but serious.  And need to say that it's a wonderful religion, that of Mormonism when you believe, but if you doubt, it can be a curse.  But that's a topic not related, I just think it's why I'm the way I am.  But I sure appreciate the freedom to express these doubts on the board.  But see that others just want to discuss faith promoting topics or more intellectual topics too.  I so understand if that's the route this board deems necessary.  Someone will have to set the precedent for it, if that's the case.  I just know that I'd never believed that I would get the opportunity to be among such wonderful people in the church and out of it on a board that is usually way over my head with knowledge I don't have.  And have learned so much.  I know some don't like the expression "mission field" but I need to say that it's like being in the mission field right here in the heart of Utah.  It's my opportunity to communicate with those in the mission field that I've heard about all my life.  Anyway, thanks for even conversing with me in these different threads, especially when appearing totally anti.  It's a great outlet.        

[Analytics]

His first post (2010) he gives an indication that he was permitted to create a persona based on his real name.

If there is/was deception it is towards everyone who was unaware.

 

I haven't seen Russell C. McGregor ever post in Pahoran's trademark caustic style.  I would guess the moderators were banning Pahoran's wit and not the man behind the name.

[why me]

Two things:

First, I see a sock puppet as being one who posts under two or more screen names for the purpose of deception. I don't see Pahoran as doing that with his new screen name.

Second, I'm inclined to stick around <so long as> Pahoran is permitted to continue and does continue posting under his new screen name.

The problem with this is that it does break the board rules, I believe. I think that you know that the board has changed course since when we first started out on it. It is not the same as it used to be. New rules are applying now. I think that the old guard are having problems adjusting to lds members acting as critics. In the past, there was a clear demarcation between critic and lds. It was a board that helped people stay in the church. But now the apologists are gone and the board is now a more post-mormon orientated board with lds members critiquing the GAs etc. I do think that pahoran could not adjust to the new way of life on the board.

[rockpond]

Pahoran and I seldom agree on anything. I love him for his conviction and his manner of dealing with antis often makes me laugh with joy. He is snide, snarky, a complete jerk, etc. I'd buy him a beer and kick back with him.

Russell C. McGregor is Pahoran. Ms. Jack has revealed this on many occasions and specifically. On her Clobberblog.

 

Wouldn't that be a violation of board guidelines as well?

 

But I guess if one is already banned, there isn't much to lose.

[rockpond]

The problem with this is that it does break the board rules, I believe. I think that you know that the board has changed course since when we first started out on it. It is not the same as it used to be. New rules are applying now. I think that the old guard are having problems adjusting to lds members acting as critics. In the past, there was a clear demarcation between critic and lds. It was a board that helped people stay in the church. But now the apologists are gone and the board is now a more post-mormon orientated board with lds members critiquing the GAs etc. I do think that pahoran could not adjust to the new way of life on the board.

 

Are there many post-mormons on here?  It seems that most are active LDS.

[why me]

This board has helped me immensely.  But I'm unsure as to if I've reciprocated as much, not fishing here, but serious.  And need to say that it's a wonderful religion, that of Mormonism when you believe, but if you doubt, it can be a curse.  But that's a topic not related, I just think it's why I'm the way I am.  But I sure appreciate the freedom to express these doubts on the board.  But see that others just want to discuss faith promoting topics or more intellectual topics too.  I so understand if that's the route this board deems necessary.  Someone will have to set the precedent for it, if that's the case.  I just know that I'd never believed that I would get the opportunity to be among such wonderful people in the church and out of it on a board that is usually way over my head with knowledge I don't have.  And have learned so much.  I know some don't like the expression "mission field" but I need to say that it's like being in the mission field right here in the heart of Utah.  It's my opportunity to communicate with those in the mission field that I've heard about all my life.  Anyway, thanks for even conversing with me in these different threads, especially when appearing totally anti.  It's a great outlet.        

You are a good case in point among others. Members who are critical and remain critical. The problem however comes when there are many such people on the board and very few to counter them. And this is the new dynamic of the board. I know that if I came to this board now as I did 11 years ago, I would have probably left the church. I just wouldn't have found any help here. I would not have been looking for members who are also being critical of the lds church but I would be looking for people who could counter such posters. But that being said, change happens as the years pass. Nothing to be surprised about that. It is natural. I have seen many great apologists on this board in the past. They were giants and knowlegeable. They would have helped you greatly.

 

Personally, I am tired of members being so critical. It is very demoralizing. But I can understand how such members find comfort here beause there are many such members here. There is strength in community. No problem.

[why me]

Are there many post-mormons on here?  It seems that most are active LDS.

And that is the point and the changing dynamic. Post mormons who are still active lds. Not easy to adjust to if one has been here a long time. Old timers can begin to lose their minds. But this is something for researchers to research. How the dynamics have changed: post mormons who are active lds board. I have read the criticisms expressed on this board by active members of the lds church also on the postmormon board. Maybe this is the influence of the internet.

 

One can understand just how pahoran began to perhaps unravel. Since I was placed on limited I try not to defend the church too much with the more critical lds. I need to weigh my words, even though one or two of the critical lds can be aggressive toward me with sarcasm etc.

Edited April 10, 2015 by why me