The Nehor Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Because he was placed on leave for discrimination, not insubordination. That's why peoplr are making it about discrimination. That's specifically what it was about. Again, it says it right in the article.Yes, and if it is in an article it must be the unvarnished truth.Nah, I am guessing both discrimination and insubordination played a role.
VideoGameJunkie Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Gay Pride parades do get out of control with how some choose to dress. It's hard to watch and some (police) don't want to watch it.
The Nehor Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Gay Pride parades do get out of control with how some choose to dress. It's hard to watch and some (police) don't want to watch it.Gay Pride parades are the enemy of gay rights.http://www.theonion.com/articles/gaypride-parade-sets-mainstream-acceptance-of-gays,351/
Pahoran Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 I was not aware that Latter-day Saints considered being gay a sin, let alone a favorite sin. Please consider this a CFR for a statement saying that being gay is a sin from some church leader please. Thanks in advance! You're right. I should have said favourite temptation rather than favourite sin. My mistake. However, in my experience, those who proudly choose to self-identify as "gay" aren't usually the ones who are making a sustained, determined effort to resist or overcome the temptation. So the distinction may be rather academic (if not pedantic) after all. Regards, Pahoran 1
Pahoran Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Hi, my name is _____ and I am an addict. Just sayin'Yes, but that's a situation where people are admitting to their weaknesses and trying to overcome them.I wonder how that would work in with "gays?"Hmmmm....(Dissolve to a scene in a group session. Eight men are sitting in a circle on hard wooden chairs. One of them stands.)Quentin: "Hello. My name's Quentin, and I'm gay. It's been two days since I propositioned a stranger in a public toilet. The homophobic bigot said no. He said he was an off-duty cop. Just watch me get him fired!"Facilitator: "Now now, Quentin. Let's not get vindictive."Quentin: "Hey, I told you I was gay, didn't I?"Facilitator: "Good point. Well, instead of getting him fired, how about you just send his wife a photo of the two of you talking?"Regards,Pahoran 2
sunstoned Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 I expect to see the Police Chief himself riding at the front of the next gay pride campaign dressed like one of the participants. Then I will know that the SLC police are not discriminatory. Police riding at the front of a parade has little to do with crowd or traffic control and a lot to do with a symbol that the civil authorities approved the parade. If, and I stress If , the motorcycle cops were told to perform circles or figure 8's a la the Shriners, then they become part of the show and their attendance should be voluntary.Police riding in the parade does mean the individual offices are approving of "gays", whatever that means. Are not offices committed to protecting and servicing the public? Maybe this officer should think about is attitudes towards inclusiveness and what it means to be a public servant. 1
The Nehor Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Yes, but that's a situation where people are admitting to their weaknesses and trying to overcome them.I wonder how that would work in with "gays?"Hmmmm....(Dissolve to a scene in a group session. Eight men are sitting in a circle on hard wooden chairs. One of them stands.)Quentin: "Hello. My name's Quentin, and I'm gay. It's been two days since I propositioned a stranger in a public toilet. The homophobic bigot said no. He said he was an off-duty cop. Just watch me get him fired!"Facilitator: "Now now, Quentin. Let's not get vindictive."Quentin: "Hey, I told you I was gay, didn't I?"Facilitator: "Good point. Well, instead of getting him fired, how about you just send his wife a photo of the two of you talking?"Regards,PahoranYou have a strange fantasy life in your head Pahoran.
strappinglad Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Police riding in the parade does mean the individual offices are approving of "gays", whatever that means. Are not offices committed to protecting and servicing the public? Maybe this officer should think about is attitudes towards inclusiveness and what it means to be a public servant. I was going to say something about editing but I don't want to jump to conclusions.
carbon dioxide Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Suppose the KKK got to have a parade. Should police officers be forced to in the parade? I would have done the same thing as the officer. His job is to provide safety and protect the parade. Not to be a participant in the parade.
Daniel2 Posted February 27, 2015 Author Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) Suppose the KKK got to have a parade. Should police officers be forced to in the parade?As public servants, the police should service any parade equally in their official capacity. Edited February 27, 2015 by Daniel2
carbon dioxide Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 As public servants, the police should service any parade equally in their official capacity.Since when is the duty of the a police officer to be part of the parade? That is the issue. It is one thing for crowd control it is another to be an exhibit. 3
Pahoran Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 You have a strange fantasy life in your head Pahoran.Perhaps. But that didn't really take much imagination. It's just a combination of (1) the classic "group therapy" situation, (2) the normal sexual behaviour of homosexual men and (3) the low likelihood of self-identified "gays" actually attempting to reform.And yes, there was an element of parody there too; mostly focused upon the triumphal, if limp-wristed, high-fiving that goes on anytime anyone who doesn't want to enthusiastically support something "gay" gets what's coming to them.But no, it's not something I regularly fantasise about.Regards,Pahoran Pahoran has been removed from the thread. 2
The Nehor Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Perhaps. But that didn't really take much imagination. It's just a combination of (1) the classic "group therapy" situation, (2) the normal sexual behaviour of homosexual men and (3) the low likelihood of self-identified "gays" actually attempting to reform.And yes, there was an element of parody there too; mostly focused upon the triumphal, if limp-wristed, high-fiving that goes on anytime anyone who doesn't want to enthusiastically support something "gay" gets what's coming to them.But no, it's not something I regularly fantasise about.Regards,PahoranI have to question your #2 there. I have been propositioned by several gay guys and not once did they conspire to ruin my life or call me a homophobic bigot when I turned them down.Unless.......it is a long drawn out conspiracy taking over a decade of planning......should I be scared? 1
bluebell Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Yes, and if it is in an article it must be the unvarnished truth.Nah, I am guessing both discrimination and insubordination played a role.Well, when lacking anything to back up your assertions there's always just making stuff up and declaring yourself right I guess! 4
The Nehor Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Well, when lacking anything to back up your assertions there's always just making stuff up and declaring yourself right I guess!No, I could be wrong but I doubt it. The only person who has shared much information has every reason to be biased. I consider taking everything he says at face value more then a little nuts.
Raingirl Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 The officer seems like a dolt to me. Does anyone watch a parade and see the law enforcement doing security and assume that those cops are strong supporters of the cause of said parade and not just, you know, doing their job?Police do not show up to celebrate. It is their job to protect the public. If this conscientious objector thing holds up will we have diplomats refusing to talk to shady governments? Secret service unwilling to protect the President when he meets with hostile governments? Mailmen refusing to deliver mail to people abusive to their families? No one assumes in those cases that you are validating some cause. You are just doing your job. So do your job.Did you actually read anything about this? I have read much more in depth than was posted here.The officer had no problem providing security. But that was not what he was asked to do. He was asked to ride in the parade, as a unit being part of the parade. Entertainment. Not security. Not performing the regular duties of a police officer. Big difference.Even so, he was willing to be part of the unit. Instead....his superiors decided to score themselves some PC points and made an issue where there shouldn't have been one.In doing my job, I provide the same service to everyone. But if my firm decided to march as a unit in a gay pride parade,that sends a different kind of message. Shouldn't an employee be allowed to decline such a request? What about a Klan parade? Or it's only gay pride activities that you think we should be forced into. 2
Calm Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) No, I could be wrong but I doubt it. The only person who has shared much information has every reason to be biased. I consider taking everything he says at face value more then a little nuts.These has been a bit said by his boss. Seems to me if there was any hint of a previous problem with the officer, that would be a much better issue to try and get him to be disciplined on than attempting discrimination…especially if the only thing he hadn't wanted to do was be in the front of the parade. Found a video, don't know if this shows what he was talking about, but given there are motorcycles immediately following the police bikes, it certainly looks to me that the police are there as openers to the parade, not just security. There is also later on the bike cops that are there as part of the parade as they are waving to the crowd and going the speed of the other parade members as opposed to riding on the side against the flow as I saw some in a 2014 video (but that did not have anything of the motorcycles so didn't link to it). I didn't watch the whole thing so, there was material in the 2014 that I felt I wouldn't recommend to others to watch (lack and type of clothing, sexual dancing), but not so much in this one…but be warned it is certainly possible. I don't see how any organization can be part of a parade without demonstrating support for the purpose of the parade, even though I can see where there is no reason they would have to be assumed to supporting each individual in the parade itself. But the purpose of the parade was to promote Gay Pride and that include in my understanding pride in the diversity of lifestyles. Edited February 27, 2015 by calmoriah
The Nehor Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 In doing my job, I provide the same service to everyone. But if my firm decided to march as a unit in a gay pride parade,that sends a different kind of message. Shouldn't an employee be allowed to decline such a request? What about a Klan parade? Or it's only gay pride activities that you think we should be forced into.Black officers have had to provide security at Klan rallies before. A much more difficult situation then this guy faced.
tonie Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 He was asked to ride in the parade, as a unit being part of the parade. Entertainment. Not security. Not performing the regular duties of a police officer. Big difference. And you source is? Here is a statement from an article published a week after the incident: "Salt Lake City police said last week that the officer was placed on leave for refusing to provide traffic control and security for the annual Utah Pride Parade."
williamsmith Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) A few questions spring to mind:In highly religious communities where a majority of officers' personal religious convictions may reflect this officer's views--what does a police chief do, then?What if the majority of his force are LDS and equally decline their appointed roles in crowd control?What if LDS officers declined to work Sundays, because of all their beliefs in honoring the Sabbath? Clearly you didn't read the story and facts. He was not declining to do his job, that is to protect his community gay or not, he was declining the forced "promotion" of it, the leading of the parade in a Motorcycle, which is a form of support, having nothing at all to do with security.That is very different from security. And before you question, I'm well familiar with Law Enforcement having worked in the industry most of my life. Again, he was fine with "crowd control", he specifically offered to do something else actually in line with his job. He wasn't fine with leading a parade that he didn't support. Two different things. Public service, it's part of the job, wouldn't happen. God allows "service" on the Sabbath. Next false representation of the facts and false assumptions? Edited February 27, 2015 by williamsmith 1
tonie Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Clearly you didn't read the story and facts. He was not declining to do his job, that is to protect his community gay or not, he was declining the forced "promotion" of it, the leading of the parade in a Motorcycle, which is a form of support, having nothing at all to do with security.That is very different from security. And before you question, I'm well familiar with Law Enforcement having worked in the industry most of my life. Again, he was fine with "crowd control", he specifically offered to do something else actually in line with his job. He wasn't fine with leading a parade that he didn't support. Two different things. Public service, it's part of the job, wouldn't happen. God allows "service" on the Sabbath. Next false representation of the facts and false assumptions? Are you sure you want to claim someone is making false representations? June 2014: "Salt Lake City police said last week that the officer was placed on leave for refusing to provide traffic control and security for the annual Utah Pride Parade."
williamsmith Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Are you sure you want to claim someone is making false representations? June 2014: "Salt Lake City police said last week that the officer was placed on leave for refusing to provide traffic control and security for the annual Utah Pride Parade." Of course that's what they are going to say....But did you even read the statement by the Officer in the OP. He told the full story, that he was entirely willing to do other security at the parade. Leading a parade in a motorcycle (which is what he was asked to do) is not a necessary part of his job. IT's a "ceremony" action, zero to do with security.Or are you calling the officer a liar?
Anijen Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) Black officers have had to provide security at Klan rallies before. A much more difficult situation then this guy faced.Providing security and being part of the KKKs' entertainment is differnt, dont ya think? Edited February 27, 2015 by Anijen 2
williamsmith Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) Providing security and being part of the KKKs' entertainment is differnt, dont ya think? Exactly.... Ask a Black Officer to lead a KKK rally in a Motorcycle, and they will laugh at you, and btw, they won't be accused of descrimination or not doing their job as an Officer.But a White Religious person will be accused of both by liberals and anti-mormons, which clearly the police chief in question is one or both.Any actual "reasonable" police chief will understand the differences between security, and leading a parade in ceremony. The officer had every right to decline that position, and the Police Chief should be sued. I would crucify the bigoted you know what in court. Edited February 27, 2015 by williamsmith
The Nehor Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Providing security and being part of the KKKs' entertainment is differnt, dont ya think?Considering the articles are inconsistent on whether the motorcycles are entertainment or security (I lean towards the latter) I am not sure the distinction means anything. The articles I have read say the officer thought it was a part of the celebration and make it sound like most do not.
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