Lds Officer Says He Resigned Due To Religious Discrimination

[Daniel2]

From Today's news:

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — A former Salt Lake City police officer who was put on leave and later resigned after he objected to riding in the motorcycle brigade at the front of last year's gay pride parade is speaking out against what he believes was a violation of his religious liberties.

Eric Moutsos, 33, said Wednesday that he was unfairly branded a bigot despite simply asking to swap roles and work a different part of the parade in June 2014. Moutsos, a Mormon, said he felt uncomfortable doing what he considered celebratory circles with other motorcycles leading the parade because of his religious views. But he said he never refused to work the parade.

"It looks like we and I are in support of this parade," Moutsos said he told superiors about being in the motor brigade. "I said I would feel the same way if this was an abortion parade. I would feel the same way if it was a marijuana parade."

In an interview with The Associated Press, Moutsos said he's coming out with his story now to be a voice in a national debate about how to safeguard religious beliefs while protecting LGBT rights.

Salt Lake Police Chief Chris Burbank said he stands behind his decision to put Moutsos on leave, saying he will not tolerate officers allowing personal biases to interfere with their work.

"It has nothing to do with religious freedom, that has to do with the hatred of those individuals and what the parade stands for, which is about unity and coming together," Burbanks said. "How can I then send that officer out to a family fight that involves a gay couple or a lesbian walking down the street?"

Moutsos said he felt compelled to come forward with his story after months of silence after he listened to leaders with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints announce a campaign last month calling for new laws that protect gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people from discrimination while also protecting people who assert their religious beliefs.

Moutsos issued a six-page statement through his attorney Monday that didn't have his name. But he decided to reveal his identity in an interview he gave to the Deseret News and KSL-TV that came out Tuesday night.

"It is unquestionably my duty as a police officer to protect everyone's right to hold a parade or other event, but is it also my duty to celebrate everyone's parade?" Moutsos wrote in the statement.

Several state legislatures, including Utah, are considering anti-LGBT discrimination laws alongside measures to safeguard religious liberties. Moutsos hasn't been invited to talk to lawmakers, but he said he would testify if asked.

"We can 100-percent disagree and still 100-percent love," Moutsos said. "I hate that we're labeled in this way that is so divisive."

Moutsos' life changed dramatically in the days leading up to last summer's gay pride parade. He had been talking with his bosses about resolving his objections while still helping out during the parade when he was informed that he was being put on leave for discrimination — a move that shocked him.

The story became public after police issued a news release saying an unnamed officer had been put on leave for refusing the gay pride parade assignment. The department said it does not tolerate bias and bigotry, and it does not allow personal beliefs to enter into whether an officer will accept an assignment.

Burbank said it is inappropriate for Moutsos to come out now with his story. Moutsos forfeited his right to defend himself during a police internal investigation when he resigned before they ever talked with him, Burbank said.

Moutsos, a married father of four, said he has gay friends and family and has no problem with 95 percent of their life choices. He said he is offended by the notion that he would treat gays and lesbians differently as an officer.

Moutsos has since found work with another police agency in the state. But he said the last six months were difficult and depressing for him and his family.

His attorney, Bret Rawson, said they have not made a decision about a possible lawsuit over the handling of the situation.

Moutsos acknowledged that he could have been more diplomatic in his conversations with superiors. But he doesn't regret asserting his beliefs.

"I used to be quite the hellion back in my day, and I found what I believe is God kind of later in my life," Moutsos said. "Now, I have such a strong, deep faith in Him . . . He and I love people, but I do not advocate certain things in people's lives. In this parade, there were messages that I don't advocate."

http://news.yahoo.com/officer-gay-pride-parade-incident-speaks-203727321.html

[Daniel2]

A few questions spring to mind:

In highly religious communities where a majority of officers' personal religious convictions may reflect this officer's views--what does a police chief do, then?

What if the majority of his force are LDS and equally decline their appointed roles in crowd control?

What if LDS officers declined to work Sundays, because of all their beliefs in honoring the Sabbath?

[JLHPROF]

A few questions spring to mind:

In highly religious communities where a majority of officers' personal religious convictions may reflect this officer's views--what does a police chief do, then?

What if the majority of his force are LDS and equally decline their appointed roles in crowd control?

What if LDS officers declined to work Sundays, because of all their beliefs in honoring the Sabbath?

 

I worked retail in American Fork for a while.  And corporate insisted we be open on Sundays.  Guess how many of our teenage staff members wanted to work on Sundays.  Zero.

We made Sunday availability part of the hiring process.  I am sure the police can do the same - won't work Sundays, Sundays are a requirement of the job, don't get the job.  Try to alter your availability AFTER you get hired to exclude Sundays, well, you will probably lose your job.

 

I am completely in favor of people standing up for what they believe is right, but this idea that we can take a job and then after the fact decide a reasonable job requirement is outside of what we should have to do is just plain wrong.

If you don't want to get dirty, I suggest you not take the job as a pig farmer.

Edited February 26, 2015 by JLHPROF

[danielwoods]

The crux of this issue, in my opinion, is summed up in this statement, "It is unquestionably my duty as a police officer to protect everyone's right to hold a parade or other event, but is it also my duty to celebrate everyone's parade?" Moutsos wrote in the statement.

 

It seems to me that being required to celebrate something that you don't want to celebrate is forcing one to do something hypocritical. The issue seems to be changing from legal rights (because that is mostly won now) to "you must now fully support us and celebrate our existence" or the accusation is that you must hate us. 

[The Nehor]

The officer seems like a dolt to me. Does anyone watch a parade and see the law enforcement doing security and assume that those cops are strong supporters of the cause of said parade and not just, you know, doing their job?

It seems to me that being required to celebrate something that you don't want to celebrate is forcing one to do something hypocritical. The issue seems to be changing from legal rights (because that is mostly won now) to "you must now fully support us and celebrate our existence" or the accusation is that you must hate us.

Police do not show up to celebrate. It is their job to protect the public. If this conscientious objector thing holds up will we have diplomats refusing to talk to shady governments? Secret service unwilling to protect the President when he meets with hostile governments? Mailmen refusing to deliver mail to people abusive to their families?

No one assumes in those cases that you are validating some cause. You are just doing your job. So do your job.

[CV75]

In highly religious communities where a majority of officers' personal religious convictions may reflect this officer's views--what does a police chief do, then?

Not impose upon the officers a celebratory aspect and stick to public safety in the friendly, civil manner suitable for a parade.

What if the majority of his force are LDS and equally decline their appointed roles in crowd control?

Their appointed role should not require celebratory performances.

What if LDS officers declined to work Sundays, because of all their beliefs in honoring the Sabbath?

I’m sure some do, but most have probably seen the doctrinal sense not to in this line of work.

[bluebell]

A few questions spring to mind:

In highly religious communities where a majority of officers' personal religious convictions may reflect this officer's views--what does a police chief do, then?

What if the majority of his force are LDS and equally decline their appointed roles in crowd control?

What if LDS officers declined to work Sundays, because of all their beliefs in honoring the Sabbath?

 

The officer did not decline to do crowd control.  He declined to be in a position that required him to celebrate the parade.

 

Given the specifics of the officer's objections, i don't find the any of your questions relevant to the article.

[Okrahomer]

I worked retail in American Fork for a while.  And corporate insisted we be open on Sundays.  Guess how many of our teenage staff members wanted to work on Sundays.  Zero.

We made Sunday availability part of the hiring process.  I am sure the police can do the same - won't work Sundays, Sundays are a requirement of the job, don't get the job.  Try to alter your availability AFTER you get hired to exclude Sundays, well, you will probably lose your job.

 

I am completely in favor of people standing up for what they believe is right, but this idea that we can take a job and then after the fact decide a reasonable job requirement is outside of what we should have to do is just plain wrong.

If you don't want to get dirty, I suggest you not take the job as a pig farmer.

 

This officer was quite willing to work at the parade--in fact he had done it before.  What he wanted to do was to protect people, not participate in their celebration.

[bluebell]

The officer seems like a dolt to me. Does anyone watch a parade and see the law enforcement doing security and assume that those cops are strong supporters of the cause of said parade and not just, you know, doing their job?

Police do not show up to celebrate. It is their job to protect the public. If this conscientious objector thing holds up will we have diplomats refusing to talk to shady governments? Secret service unwilling to protect the President when he meets with hostile governments? Mailmen refusing to deliver mail to people abusive to their families?

No one assumes in those cases that you are validating some cause. You are just doing your job. So do your job.

 

"Moutsos, a Mormon, said he felt uncomfortable doing what he considered celebratory circles with other motorcycles leading the parade because of his religious views. But he said he never refused to work the parade."

 

Is it impossible for him to do his job unless he's willing to do what he sees as celebratory circles?  

[The Nehor]

This officer was quite willing to work at the parade--in fact he had done it before.  What he wanted to do was to protect people, not participate in their celebration.

The motorcycle brigade is there to protect people. They have to circle back. I think he is the only one thinking those circles are "celebratory".

[JLHPROF]

This officer was quite willing to work at the parade--in fact he had done it before.  What he wanted to do was to protect people, not participate in their celebration.

 

 

"Moutsos, a Mormon, said he felt uncomfortable doing what he considered celebratory circles with other motorcycles leading the parade because of his religious views. But he said he never refused to work the parade."

 

Is it impossible for him to do his job unless he's willing to do what he sees as celebratory circles?  

 

I quite agree.  I was addressing Daniel's questions:

What if the majority of his force are LDS and equally decline their appointed roles in crowd control?

What if LDS officers declined to work Sundays, because of all their beliefs in honoring the Sabbath?

 

As far as the officer riding in the parade in support/celebration, I don't see how that can be considered a legal job requirement.

[rockpond]

Not impose upon the officers a celebratory aspect and stick to public safety in the friendly, civil manner suitable for a parade.

Their appointed role should not require celebratory performances.

I’m sure some do, but most have probably seen the doctrinal sense not to in this line of work.

 

I'm with CV75 on this one.  I think the police chief is wrong to have put the officer on leave.  Officer Moutsos said he was perfectly willing to provide protection & crowd control for the parade, he just didn't want to be in it and so he asked for a trade of assignments.  And he said that if he wasn't able to get a trade, he still would have covered the assignment.

 

 

The motorcycle brigade is there to protect people. They have to circle back. I think he is the only one thinking those circles are "celebratory".

 

Do we have a confirmation somewhere that circling back is what was being asked of them as opposed to "choreographed motorcycle moves"?

[bluebell]

The motorcycle brigade is there to protect people. They have to circle back. I think he is the only one thinking those circles are "celebratory".

 

You might think that, and you might be right, but given how little we know about this, it seems presumptuous to declare that as a fact.  For what it's worth, i did not read his words as talking about circling back.  

 

Did anyone here attend the parade and see what the M. cops at the front actually did?  

[The Nehor]

"Moutsos, a Mormon, said he felt uncomfortable doing what he considered celebratory circles with other motorcycles leading the parade because of his religious views. But he said he never refused to work the parade."

 

Is it impossible for him to do his job unless he's willing to do what he sees as celebratory circles?

Could he work another role? Sure. Does it set a dangerous precedent in any work environment to demand not to do certain assignment because your conscience forbids it on incredibly dubious grounds? Definitely. Is it possible he wanted to switch jobs because the motorcycle brigade is one of the more obnoxious jobs? Very much so.

[The Nehor]

You might think that, and you might be right, but given how little we know about this, it seems presumptuous to declare that as a fact.  For what it's worth, i did not read his words as talking about circling back.  

 

Did anyone here attend the parade and see what the M. cops at the front actually did?

I am guessing that is the case based on the wording of the article where he considered it "celebratory".

[The Nehor]

I'm with CV75 on this one.  I think the police chief is wrong to have put the officer on leave.  Officer Moutsos said he was perfectly willing to provide protection & crowd control for the parade, he just didn't want to be in it and so he asked for a trade of assignments.  And he said that if he wasn't able to get a trade, he still would have covered the assignment.

I wild be surprised at a chief doing this too. It seems a little extreme when you could just tell him to do it. If I had to guess I am guessing the officer has a pattern of trying to beg off assignments and this one finally broke the camels back. I have nothing to support this other then knowing the type of person who tries to beg off of doing work for any reason they can think of. These people are annoying to work with. If this is a larger pattern then I am in sympathy with the chief.

We only got one side of the story as the police department wisely chose not to comment and I suspect that anyone who is fired as a possible unreliable narrator. My gut instinct is that he was either not as polite and reasonable about this as he claims and/or that he has a habit of doing things like this.

[rockpond]

I wild be surprised at a chief doing this too. It seems a little extreme when you could just tell him to do it. If I had to guess I am guessing the officer has a pattern of trying to beg off assignments and this one finally broke the camels back. I have nothing to support this other then knowing the type of person who tries to beg off of doing work for any reason they can think of. These people are annoying to work with. If this is a larger pattern then I am in sympathy with the chief.

We only got one side of the story as the police department wisely chose not to comment and I suspect that anyone who is fired as a possible unreliable narrator. My gut instinct is that he was either not as polite and reasonable about this as he claims and/or that he has a habit of doing things like this.

 

That could be.

 

The KSL story that I watched online showed a short snippet with the police chief.  He just said that he would not tolerate discrimination and so he put the officer on leave.

 

I dunno.  Like you said, it's possible that there was a previous pattern.

[stemelbow]

The officer seems like a dolt to me. Does anyone watch a parade and see the law enforcement doing security and assume that those cops are strong supporters of the cause of said parade and not just, you know, doing their job?

Police do not show up to celebrate. It is their job to protect the public. If this conscientious objector thing holds up will we have diplomats refusing to talk to shady governments? Secret service unwilling to protect the President when he meets with hostile governments? Mailmen refusing to deliver mail to people abusive to their families?

No one assumes in those cases that you are validating some cause. You are just doing your job. So do your job.

On top of that, what does he think the people are celebrating? What is he against, exactly?

"I don't believe that gay people should acknowledge that there are gay people out there and that they feel like they should get rights and stuff".

Seriously who here thinks it's against their beliefs to be in a gay pride parade? "well I just don't believe in gay people". Not sure that works. "well I just don't believe that gay people should have sex with each other". So? You might not also believe people should not have sex outside of marriage, but in nearly everything you do you'll run into and support people who do.

[Daniel2]

The motorcycle brigade is there to protect people. They have to circle back. I think he is the only one thinking those circles are "celebratory".

This would be my response to Bluebell, as well.

Participating in the parade would be to expect him to march under a banner saying "Police Officers Supporting Pride," holding rainbow flags, etc.

Officers on motorcycles continuously circle around the front of the parade route to control the crowd and clear the streets, thus protecting the safety of spectators and parade participants.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Daniel2

[tonie]

The officer did not decline to do crowd control. He declined to be in a position that required him to celebrate the parade.

Given the specifics of the officer's objections, i don't find the any of your questions relevant to the article.

The officer was asked to ride out feont and do traffic control. The officer objected to being out front. The officer statement reads like oppurtunistic propaganda.

This story was reported days after it happened in June of 2014.

The officers statement from June 2014 was that riding traffic control out front was showing support for gay pride. Perhaps this former officer should learn a lesson about civil sericice from Black Officers who did crowd control for KKK rallies.

[Pahoran]

A few questions spring to mind:

In highly religious communities where a majority of officers' personal religious convictions may reflect this officer's views--what does a police chief do, then?

What if the majority of his force are LDS and equally decline their appointed roles in crowd control?

But he didn't decline to take a role in crowd control.

He was willing to work the parade. He was willing to do crowd control.

He wasn't willing to be a performer in the parade.

There's a difference.

 

What if LDS officers declined to work Sundays, because of all their beliefs in honoring the Sabbath?

They should get another job.

Regards,

Pahoran

[bluebell]

The officer was asked to ride out feont and do traffic control. The officer objected to being out front. The officer statement reads like oppurtunistic propaganda.

This story was reported days after it happened in June of 2014.

The officers statement from June 2014 was that riding traffic control out front was showing support for gay pride. Perhaps this former officer should learn a lesson about civil sericice from Black Officers who did crowd control for KKK rallies.

 

Attorney Bret Rawson said the officer didn’t refuse to work the parade, but asked to be taken off the motor team that leads the parade and reassigned to behind-the-scenes duty. Rawson declined to divulge the officer’s name. Salt Lake City police have not named him either.

 

The officer felt being on the motorcycle would make it appear he was advocating for gay pride, something that made him uncomfortable because of his personal and religious beliefs, he said. He never flatly said he wouldn’t work the parade, merely asking for a different duty, Rawson said.

 

“You are essentially participating in the actual parade,” Rawson said. “It’s more than doing traffic, or patrol or regular police duties.”

 

You can give the worst spin on this man's motive as possible and i'll focus on the best spin on his motives as possible and we'll just have to agree to disagree.  Neither one of us knows enough to pretend like we can judge the situation completely accurately.

 

It'll be interesting to see how the lawsuit plays out.

Edited February 26, 2015 by bluebell

[Buzzard]

It's my understanding that there was a cadre of motorcycle officers not just doing traffic control, or "circling back", but doing rehearsed, choreographed maneuvers as a parade entry, and being part of that group is what the office wanted to avoid. He didn't go to his superior officer and complain, he asked another officer if he would trade.  I used to trade shifts all the time at work when we  worked nights and weekends.  It wasn't a big deal. Though apparently it is to the Chief.  

[Guest]

The motorcycle brigade is there to protect people. They have to circle back. I think he is the only one thinking those circles are "celebratory".

More importantly, this is the job of the police to protect everyone from anything. He was on the SLC Force, I am guessing he is or was not the only Mormon. Be like me saying I was discriminated against for being Baptist is GA. Edited February 26, 2015 by Pa Pa

[bluebell]

It's my understanding that there was a cadre of motorcycle officers not just doing traffic control, or "circling back", but doing rehearsed, choreographed maneuvers as a parade entry, and being part of that group is what the office wanted to avoid. He didn't go to his superior officer and complain, he asked another officer if he would trade.  I used to trade shifts all the time at work when we  worked nights and weekends.  It wasn't a big deal. Though apparently it is to the Chief.  

 

Are there any references or anything that support that the cadre of motorcycle cops were doing choreographed maneuvers?