rongo Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 A local bishop has asked me for help dealing with a problem with five families in his ward who are into AVOW, Roger K. Young, etc. They are seeking to hold extra-church meetings and build a following, and he wants to address the problem. I sent him some background information (he knew very little about them or the movement), and he requested scriptures and quotes he can use in talking to them. My expertise is old quotes, and I would like some help with recent apostles and prophets addressing these issues (i.e., hoarding food storage with the view of withholding it from the unworthy, secret para-church meetings and groups, etc.). I have the First Presidency letter that warns against discussion groups. Thanks in advance!
Bobbieaware Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 A local bishop has asked me for help dealing with a problem with five families in his ward who are into AVOW, Roger K. Young, etc. They are seeking to hold extra-church meetings and build a following, and he wants to address the problem. I sent him some background information (he knew very little about them or the movement), and he requested scriptures and quotes he can use in talking to them. My expertise is old quotes, and I would like some help with recent apostles and prophets addressing these issues (i.e., hoarding food storage with the view of withholding it from the unworthy, secret para-church meetings and groups, etc.). I have the First Presidency letter that warns against discussion groups. Thanks in advance!This is the first I ever heard of AVOW and Roger K. Young. But even though I'm not a "preper," I do believe the scriptures indicate things are going to get seriously horrible in the world prior to the Second Coming. We're told that as a consequence of rejecting the gospel the societies of the world will ripen in iniquity and the Lord will send drought, famine, pestilence, and devastating destructions by nature as judgements upon the world. We're also told that in addition to the list of previous horrors wars and bloodsheds will also engulf the world, greatly exacerbating the already horrific situation. In light of these things, it's hard to fault those who think it's wise to take prudent action in order to be prepared for the coming calamities. Doubtless there will certainly will be opportunists and charlatans who will try to capitalize on the coming extreme challenges, but given the awful extent of the prophesied coming cataclysms, it's hard to fault people for wanting to prepare for events that will surely constitute the most disturbing and challenging epoch in world history. What do you think? 1
Duncan Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) This was taught, by Pres. Howard W. Hunter on the night that loon, Cody Judy made his appearance http://speeches.byu.edu/index.php?act=viewitem&id=728 Read Pres. Packer's section on 'Follow the Leader'https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1992/10/to-be-learned-is-good-if?lang=eng there is also this http://ldsliving.com/story/70200-lds-apostle-tells-mormons-stock-up-on-food-not-ammo Edited February 16, 2015 by Duncan 1
bluebell Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 This is the first I ever heard of AVOW and Roger K. Young. But even though I'm not a "preper," I do believe the scriptures indicate things are going to get seriously horrible in the world prior to the Second Coming. We're told that as a consequence of rejecting the gospel the societies of the world will ripen in iniquity and the Lord will send drought, famine, pestilence, and devastating destructions by nature as judgements upon the world. We're also told that in addition to the list of previous horrors wars and bloodsheds will also engulf the world, greatly exacerbating the already horrific situation. In light of these things, it's hard to fault those who think it's wise to take prudent action in order to be prepared for the coming calamities. Doubtless there will certainly will be opportunists and charlatans who will try to capitalize on the coming extreme challenges, but given the awful extent of the prophesied coming cataclysms, it's hard to fault people for wanting to prepare for events that will surely constitute the most disturbing and challenging epoch in world history. What do you think? I don't fault people who want to be prepared. I just think that it can become an addiction and that people start to 'look beyond the mark' sometimes. That's when i think it becomes a bad thing, especially as it seems to correspond with people losing hope in the future. 2
rongo Posted February 16, 2015 Author Posted February 16, 2015 Kenngo had shared this on a thread a couple of years ago. It's very applicable: https://lds.org/ensign/1994/10/our-strengths-can-become-our-downfall I agree that preparedness is a good thing, in and of itself. I have some knowledge of the situation in this ward, and the people at the center are inactives who think that the Church should be much more outspoken about preparedness. They feel that the Brethren secretly agree with them, but can't act in the open right now for PR reasons. This is the stance of AVOW (Another Voice of Warning). 1
Duncan Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Kenngo had shared this on a thread a couple of years ago. It's very applicable: https://lds.org/ensign/1994/10/our-strengths-can-become-our-downfall I agree that preparedness is a good thing, in and of itself. I have some knowledge of the situation in this ward, and the people at the center are inactives who think that the Church should be much more outspoken about preparedness. They feel that the Brethren secretly agree with them, but can't act in the open right now for PR reasons. This is the stance of AVOW (Another Voice of Warning). The brethren knowing stuff and not saying anything is against what Pres. Packer said in his talk, it's total Hoo-Hash Edited February 16, 2015 by Duncan
rongo Posted February 16, 2015 Author Posted February 16, 2015 This was taught, by Pres. Howard W. Hunter on the night that loon, Cody Judy made his appearance Those were all spot-on, Duncan! Thanks! My sister was there for the Cody Judy incident. She called us back in Chicago (I was in high school) to tell us what had happened. 2
Duncan Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Those were all spot-on, Duncan! Thanks! My sister was there for the Cody Judy incident. She called us back in Chicago (I was in high school) to tell us what had happened. no problem!!!! I remember that night as well-I wasn't there but my older sister hogged the phone forever afterwards though! hahaha!
Rob Osborn Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 We had the same problem in a ward I lived in. Folks were having dreams and everything about the tent cities.
omni Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 A local bishop has asked me for help dealing with a problem with five families in his ward who are into AVOW, Roger K. Young, etc. They are seeking to hold extra-church meetings and build a following, and he wants to address the problem. I sent him some background information (he knew very little about them or the movement), and he requested scriptures and quotes he can use in talking to them.My expertise is old quotes, and I would like some help with recent apostles and prophets addressing these issues (i.e., hoarding food storage with the view of withholding it from the unworthy, secret para-church meetings and groups, etc.).I have the First Presidency letter that warns against discussion groups.Thanks in advance!Wow, that's crazy! I have a couple of friends who are a part of AVOW and often get spammed on my Facebook feed with their fear-mongering messages. However, I had no idea they were going this far. Could Roger Young be the next Denver Snuffer?
Rob Osborn Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/52730-tent-cities/
carbon dioxide Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 http://ldsliving.com/story/70200-lds-apostle-tells-mormons-stock-up-on-food-not-ammoOf course the Church does not say that members should not stock up on guns and ammo. Just that guns and ammo is not the primary thing to stock up on. Having some guns and ammo might be a wise investment. No sense in having lots of food and water only to have mobs come and steal it all.
pogi Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 This is the first I ever heard of AVOW and Roger K. Young. But even though I'm not a "preper," I do believe the scriptures indicate things are going to get seriously horrible in the world prior to the Second Coming. We're told that as a consequence of rejecting the gospel the societies of the world will ripen in iniquity and the Lord will send drought, famine, pestilence, and devastating destructions by nature as judgements upon the world. We're also told that in addition to the list of previous horrors wars and bloodsheds will also engulf the world, greatly exacerbating the already horrific situation. In light of these things, it's hard to fault those who think it's wise to take prudent action in order to be prepared for the coming calamities. Doubtless there will certainly will be opportunists and charlatans who will try to capitalize on the coming extreme challenges, but given the awful extent of the prophesied coming cataclysms, it's hard to fault people for wanting to prepare for events that will surely constitute the most disturbing and challenging epoch in world history. What do you think? Preparedness is one thing, fanatical fear mongering (what are we taught about gentle persuasion?) recruitment and food hoarding, while excluding the "unworthy" is another. They are way out of line! There are lots of these weirdos out there. They are obsessed with physical preparedness without any consideration of the FAR more important - spiritual preparedness. 2
Duncan Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Of course the Church does not say that members should not stock up on guns and ammo. Just that guns and ammo is not the primary thing to stock up on. Having some guns and ammo might be a wise investment. No sense in having lots of food and water only to have mobs come and steal it all. I prefer fists of fury! 1
rongo Posted February 16, 2015 Author Posted February 16, 2015 Rob Osborn: How did the tent city problem in your ward get resolved? Did it just peter out, eventually? Thanks for linking to that five year-old thread!
Calm Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Sigh. Utah.. The most rabid doomsday fans I met were in Kansas.
Buckeye Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 I (reluctantly) admit to having watched a few episodes of Doomsday Preppers (currently on Netflix). The lone redeeming thing I can say about the show is that it proves there are doomsdayers in every corner of the country. Utah is represented, but not overrepresented. On a substantive point, I never understood the joy some people seem to take in dreaming of the day when they will be eating rehydrated prime rib in a bunker while the world goes to pot. When zombies and the North Koreans take over, you are all welcome at my place. We have a little over a year's supply of food for a family of 7; of water for 3 months; and fuel for 2-3 weeks of generator use. And we have zero guns or cans of ammunition. 1
DragonLancer Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 http://thoughtfulmormonism.blogspot.com/2014/09/tent-cities-and-new-jerusalem.html
Bobbieaware Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Preparedness is one thing, fanatical fear mongering (what are we taught about gentle persuasion?) recruitment and food hoarding, while excluding the "unworthy" is another. They are way out of line! There are lots of these weirdos out there. They are obsessed with physical preparedness without any consideration of the FAR more important - spiritual preparedness.Until today I didn't even know that AVOW and Roger Young existed, I don't know anything about them and haven't bothered to do any research as yet. But what I do know is that while it' seems to be in vogue among TBMs to condemn "Mormon prepers" as fanatics (as I said, I'm not one of them), the fact is that according to the scriptures there are terrible days of pestilence, drought and famine coming. In the meantime, many of those who condemn the prepers haven't even started to get a realistic food storage program In place for the coming days of tribulation we are assured will come.I also don't understand how some members seem to derisively mock the prepers as foolish and fanatical believers in a coming "Doomsday" when the scriptures warn that a very real Doomsday is coming. Prior to the cataclysmic events recorded in 3 Nephi 8, I wonder how many of the Nephites thought the great destructions that were prophesied to take place before to the appearance of the resurrected Christ were a load of fanatical nonsense? How much do you want to bet there will be many active members who will say Doomsday is fantasy one day before the ---- hits the fan?My point is that until a real longterm food storage and emergency essentials program is achieved, the condemnation such unprepared members heap on the prepers will ring hollow. In their complacency, these mockers seem to be just as foolish in their own way as the do the fanatical prepers. Edited February 16, 2015 by Bobbieaware 1
ERayR Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 I prefer fists of fury! Its not wise to go to a gunfight with only your fists. 1
Calm Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Since both my daughter and I have a month leeway in a disaster situation (maximum amount of time before medication that allows us to function decently lasts) before we are in hell no matter how much food and quality TP we stock, I just need to make sure we have enough for my husband...we are good on that...but if it is a long term disaster of many years, I don't see even those with food storage surviving well on their own. 1
Hamba Tuhan Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Its not wise to go to a gunfight with only your fists. Try telling Wonder Woman that. 3
pogi Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Until today I didn't even know that AVOW and Roger Young existed, I don't know anything about them and haven't bothered to do any research as yet. But what I do know is that while it' seems to be in vogue among TBMs to condemn "Mormon prepers" as fanatics (as I said, I'm not one of them), the fact is that according to the scriptures there are terrible days of pestilence, drought and famine coming. In the meantime, many of those who condemn the prepers haven't even started to get a realistic food storage program In place for the coming days of tribulation we are assured will come.I also don't understand how some members seem to derisively mock the prepers as foolish and fanatical believers in a coming "Doomsday" when the scriptures warn that a very real Doomsday is coming. Prior to the cataclysmic events recorded in 3 Nephi 8, I wonder how many of the Nephites thought the great destructions that were prophesied to take place before to the appearance of the resurrected Christ were a load of fanatical nonsense? How much do you want to bet there will be many active members who will say Doomsday is fantasy one day before the ---- hits the fan?My point is that until a real longterm food storage and emergency essentials program is achieved, the condemnation such unprepared members heap on the prepers will ring hollow. In their complacency, these mockers seem to be just as foolish in their own way as the do the fanatical prepers. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge proponent and observer of preparedness and self-reliance. There will be "days of tribulation" no doubt. There is an enormous difference between teaching and living preparedness and obsessive fear mongering and end-of-world pseudo-prophesying, which I have seen my fair share of. It is almost ridiculous to hear some of the claims that they make to support their obsessive fanaticism including 2012 prophecies of the Maya, or their cousins, friends girlfriend had a NDE in which she saw how things are REALLY going to happen in end times. Or, my sisters, babysitter said that so and so came to their stake conference and said... so be sure and buy this special fabric or soap or tonic which will protect you against certain distruction of cold or disease which will come upon you if you don't have it! They go above and beyond preparedness into conspiracy theory style prophecies and warnings. The really disturbing part about it is that they talk about it with excitement, as if they can't wait for this terrible, terrible day. It's as if they are looking forward more to the time that they can say "I told you so" to their starving, diseased, or dying neighbors, then they are about the coming of the Lord. They can't wait to turn away their hungry neighbors by the end of their assault weapons as they say, "who's laughing now". It is quite disturbing. I cannot speak specifically about Roger Young or AVOW Edited February 17, 2015 by pogi 3
Bobbieaware Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Don't get me wrong, I am a huge proponent and observer of preparedness and self-reliance. There will be "days of tribulation" no doubt. There is an enormous difference between teaching and living preparedness and obsessive fear mongering and end-of-world pseudo-prophesying, which I have seen my fair share of. It is almost ridiculous to hear some of the claims that they make to support their obsessive fanaticism including 2012 prophecies of the Maya, or their cousins, friends girlfriend had a NDE in which she saw how things are REALLY going to happen in end times. Or, my sisters, babysitter said that so and so came to their stake conference and said... so be sure and buy this special fabric or soap or tonic which will protect you against certain distruction of cold or disease which will come upon you if you don't have it! They go above and beyond preparedness into conspiracy theory style prophecies and warnings. The really disturbing part about it is that they talk about it with excitement, as if they can't wait for this terrible, terrible day. It's as if they are looking forward more to the time that they can say "I told you so" to their starving, diseased, or dying neighbors, then they are about the coming of the Lord. They can't wait to turn away their hungry neighbors by the end of their assault weapons as they say, "who's laughing now". It is quite disturbing. I cannot speak specifically about Roger Young or AVOWI know. When I was much younger, I thought it would be "cool" to be around during the "last days of trouble and gloom." But then when as an adult I actually had to go through some trouble and gloom of my own,, I decided it wasn't so cool anymore. 3
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