Modern Prophets On Tent Cities, Avow, Etc.

[Calm]

She hasn't been able to eat anything substantial yet.  Really burnt out her throat with stomach acid, but sugars are stable and she is getting enough liquids and she and I are catching up on our lost sleep.  First time she ever had to go since her diagnosis of diabetes, so we are thinking once every decade or so isn't bad.  She plans on beating 12 years though for the next time we have to go.  

 

I've never experienced someone who didn't stop throwing up after 5 hours, each time it just seemed like that was going to be the last time.  If it happens again, we definitely won't be waiting that long.

[zob]

Roger K Young has made it known under the "Authors Notes" in his book "As a Thief in the night", that Roger K Young is not his full name. It also states does not include his biography because he doesn't have any credentials. 

 

The most comprehensive and approved study of the last days that I have found is from the Doctrine & Covenants Institute Manual..  Found in Enrichment H:  The Last Days.. I provided the link below..

 

Here is a quote from President Harold B. Lee that is found in this section of the institute manual:

 

“There are among us many loose writings predicting thecalamities which are about to overtake us. Some ofthese have been publicized as though they werenecessary to wake up the world to the horrors about toovertake us. Many of these are from sources uponwhich there cannot be unquestioned reliance.“…We need no such publications to be forewarned, ifwe were only conversant with what the scriptures havealready spoken to us in plainness.” (In ConferenceReport, Oct. 1972, 128; or Ensign, Jan. 1973, p. 106.) President Lee further counseled the Saints, giving “thesure word of prophecy on which you should rely foryour guide. …  “Read the 24th chapter of Matthewparticularly thatinspired version as contained in the Pearl of GreatPrice. [Joseph Smith—Matthew.] “Then read the 45th section of the Doctrine andCovenants where the Lord, not man, has documentedthe signs of the times. “Now turn to section 101 and section 133 of theDoctrine and Covenants and hear the step-by-step recounting of the events leading up to the coming ofthe Savior. “Finally, turn to the promises the Lord makes to thosewho keep the commandments when these judgmentsdescend upon the wicked, as set forth in the Doctrineand Covenants, section 38. “… These are some of the writings with which youshould concern yourselves, rather than commentariesthat may come from those whose information may notbe the most reliable and whose motives may be subjectto question.” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1972, p. 128;or Ensign, Jan. 1973, p. 106.)

https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-student-manual/enrichments/enrichment-h-the-last-days?lang=eng

[Russell C McGregor]

Until today I didn't even know that AVOW and Roger Young existed, I don't know anything about them and haven't bothered to do any research as yet. But what I do know is that while it' seems to be in vogue among TBMs to condemn "Mormon prepers" as fanatics (as I said, I'm not one of them), the fact is that according to the scriptures there are terrible days of pestilence, drought and famine coming. In the meantime, many of those who condemn the prepers haven't even started to get a realistic food storage program In place for the coming days of tribulation we are assured will come.

I also don't understand how some members seem to derisively mock the prepers as foolish and fanatical believers in a coming "Doomsday" when the scriptures warn that a very real Doomsday is coming. Prior to the cataclysmic events recorded in 3 Nephi 8, I wonder how many of the Nephites thought the great destructions that were prophesied to take place before to the appearance of the resurrected Christ were a load of fanatical nonsense? How much do you want to bet there will be many active members who will say Doomsday is fantasy one day before the ---- hits the fan?

My point is that until a real longterm food storage and emergency essentials program is achieved, the condemnation such unprepared members heap on the prepers will ring hollow. In their complacency, these mockers seem to be just as foolish in their own way as the do the fanatical prepers.

Whenever I've heard the leaders of the Church talking about preparedness, it's not about the "doomsday scenario." It's about preparing for things like illness, unemployment, disability, short-term disruptions to food distribution systems, such as may be caused by local disasters, and the like.

Not nearly as exciting as being overtaken by a devouring scourge, but much more along the lines of what we are more likely to experience in our lifetimes.

The other consideration is that storable foodstuffs (and home-grown foods) are more wholesome than most of the processed and pre-packaged foods that the West is growing fat upon.

Just my $.02.

[zob]

A local bishop has asked me for help dealing with a problem with five families in his ward who are into AVOW, Roger K. Young, etc. They are seeking to hold extra-church meetings and build a following, and he wants to address the problem. I sent him some background information (he knew very little about them or the movement), and he requested scriptures and quotes he can use in talking to them.

 

My expertise is old quotes, and I would like some help with recent apostles and prophets addressing these issues (i.e., hoarding food storage with the view of withholding it from the unworthy, secret para-church meetings and groups, etc.).

 

I have the First Presidency letter that warns against discussion groups.

 

Thanks in advance!

Roger K Young has made it known under the "Authors Notes" in his book "As a Thief in the night", that Roger K Young is not his full name. It also states does not include his biography because he doesn't have any credentials. 

The most comprehensive and approved study of the last days that I have found is from the Doctrine & Covenants Institute Manual..  Found in Enrichment H:  The Last Days.. I provided the link below..

Here is a quote from President Harold B. Lee that is found in this section of the institute manual:

 

“There are among us many loose writings predicting thecalamities which are about to overtake us. Some ofthese have been publicized as though they werenecessary to wake up the world to the horrors about toovertake us. Many of these are from sources uponwhich there cannot be unquestioned reliance.“…We need no such publications to be forewarned, if we were only conversant with what the scriptures havealready spoken to us in plainness.” (In ConferenceReport, Oct. 1972, 128; or Ensign, Jan. 1973, p. 106.) President Lee further counseled the Saints, giving “thesure word of prophecy on which you should rely foryour guide. …  “Read the 24th chapter of Matthewparticularly thatinspired version as contained in the Pearl of GreatPrice. [Joseph Smith—Matthew.] “Then read the 45th section of the Doctrine andCovenants where the Lord, not man, has documentedthe signs of the times. “Now turn to section 101 and section 133 of the Doctrine and Covenants and hear the step-by step recounting of the events leading up to the coming ofthe Savior. “Finally, turn to the promises the Lord makes to thosewho keep the commandments when these judgmentsdescend  upon the wicked, as set forth in the Doctrineand Covenants, section 38. “… These are some of the writings with which youshould concern yourselves, rather than commentariesthat may come from those whose information may notbe the most reliable and whose motives may be subjectto question.” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1972, p. 128;or Ensign, Jan. 1973, p. 106.)

https://www.lds.org/...t-days?lang=eng

sorry for the double post.. i'm a new guy

[Tacenda]

Ron Paul is apparently trying to warn people of a doomsday, it came up as a Suggested Post on FB. I can't bring myself to clicking on it and reading what he has to say. I just don't want Julie Rowe and this AVOW group to be right I guess.

[Calm]

Last I heard she thinks it is going to happen in about 2 1/2 years so you won't have long to wait to find out if you have any inclination to believe her now (I don't).

 

(We are really going to invite North Korea into help us out in a disaster?  As if they could even function themselves if a disaster that size occurred, they don't even have enough electricity for themselves.)

Edited May 19, 2015 by calmoriah

[ERayR]

Ron Paul is apparently trying to warn people of a doomsday, it came up as a Suggested Post on FB. I can't bring myself to clicking on it and reading what he has to say. I just don't want Julie Rowe and this AVOW group to be right I guess.

 

How do you know he is "apparently trying to warn people of a doomsday" if you haven't read it?

[Tacenda]

How do you know he is "apparently trying to warn people of a doomsday" if you haven't read it?

From the headings.

[ERayR]

From the headings.

 

Be careful relying too much on those.  They are constructed to sensationalize.

[PeterPear]

Elder Jeffery R. Holland of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles addressed this topic in an article published in the June 2014 Ensign entitled:

 

The Call to Be Christlike

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2014/06/the-call-to-be-christlike?lang=eng

 

He starts off with the same thing AVOW claims to support it position as to what will happen to the LDS Church, that faithful people in the past fled "babylon" or the wicked and lived in tents: Abraham, Lehi's & Ishmael's families, even the Saints of Nauvoo.

 

Yet Elder Holland states this:

 

For more than 4,000 years of covenantal history, this has been the pattern: Flee and seek. Run and settle. Escape Babylon. Build Zion’s protective walls. Until this, our day.

One of the many unique characteristics of our dispensation is the changing nature of how we establish the kingdom of God on earth. This dispensation is a time of mighty, accelerated change. And one thing that has changed is that the Church of God will never again flee. It will never again leave Ur in order to leave Haran in order to leave Canaan in order to leave Jerusalem in order to leave England in order to leave Kirtland in order to leave Nauvoo in order to go who knows where.

[PeterPear]

This link should work:

 

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2014/06/the-call-to-be-christlike?lang=eng

[diamondintherough]

Thanks for that quote PP.  I went to the article and read the rest of that section.  Anyway, although I'm still trying to make sense of things, not all will choose to leave their homes so Zion can still be "planted permanently" even if there are places of refuge established.  Just my .02.

[PeterPear]

So AVOW will still get everyone's $14.95 monthly dues, just in case Elder Holland is wrong - because some still believe the Leadership of the Church, which incldes Elder Holland, will still set up places of refuge (Tent Cities).

AVOW - separating fools from their money one faithless member at a time.

[diamondintherough]

I've never been part of AVOW but fwiw...take it or leave it (emphasis not mine):

 

Elder H. Aldridge (Second Quorum of the Seventy) LDS Business College Devotional, February 8th, 2005
"We must both learn what these signs are and then identify them correctly when they occur. They can and will strengthen our faith in Christ and His prophets, if we know the scriptures. Just as in the days of Noah, a way is already prepared for the escape of the Lord's elect Latter-Day Saints, if they are in tune with His prophets."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harold B. Lee Conference Report, April 1948
Thus, clearly, the Lord has placed the responsibility for directing the work of gathering in the hands of the leaders of the Church to whom he will reveal his will where and when such gatherings would take place in the future. 
It would be well before the frightening events concerning the fulfillment of all God's promises and predictions are upon us, that the Saints in every land prepare themselves and look forward to the instruction that shall come to them from the First Presidency of this Church as to where they shall be gathered and not be disturbed in their feelings until such instruction is given to them as it is revealed by the Lord to the proper authority. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
Henry B. Eyring - Raise the Bar (BYU-Idaho Talk - January 2005)
"The giant earthquake, and the tsunami it sent crashing into the coasts around the Indian Ocean, is just the beginning and a part of what is to come, terrible as it was.
You remember the words from the Doctrine and Covenants which now seem so accurate: (he quotes D&C 88:88-91)
Fear shall come upon all people. But you and I know that the Lord has prepared places of safety to which he is eager to guide us....It will be our choice whether or not to move up or stay where we are. But the Lord will invite and guide us upward by the direction of the Holy Ghost....
I did not plan to speak to you about the hard times that are ahead and they are real, and they are coming...."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Wilford Woodruff - (History of the Church, 6:26)
“….that the Saints of God may have a place to flee to and stand in holy places while judgment works in the earth; that when the sword of God that is bathed in heaven falls upon Idumea, or the world,—when the Lord pleads with all flesh by sword and by fire, and the slain of the Lord are many, the Saints may escape these calamities by fleeing to the places of refuge, like Lot and Noah.” 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Smith The teaching of the prophet Joseph Smith, Section 2, P.71
"...for without Zion, and a place of deliverance, we must fall; because the time is near when the sun will be darkened, and the moon turn to blood, and the stars fall from the heaven, and the earth reel to and fro.
Then, if this is the case, and if we are not sanctified and gathered to the places God has appointed, with all our former professions and our great love for the Bible, we must fall; we cannot stand; we cannot be saved; for God will gather out his saints from the Gentiles, and then comes desolation and destruction, and none can escape except the pure in heart who are gathered."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Joseph Smith DHC 4:272
"In addition to all temporal blessings, there is no other way for the Saints to be saved in these last days, than by gathering...."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Book of Mormon Alma 26:5-7
And they shall be gathered into the garners, that they are not wasted.
Yea, they shall not be beaten down by the storm at the last day; yea, neither shall they be harrowed up by the whirlwinds; but when the storm cometh they shall be gathered together in their place, that the storm cannot penetrate to them; yea, neither shall they be driven with fierce winds whithersoever the enemy listeth to carry them.
But behold, they are in the hands of the Lord of the harvest, and they are his; and he will raise them up at the last day.

[JoeMormon]

AVOW is a fear-mongering site that preys on the weak minded.  The fact that you have to PAY, just to be on their site, should be enough of a warning. Stay away from them, or you might end up having nightmares about getting called out to tent cities and other ridiculous events -- Well, at least you could publish your nightmares like Julie Rowe and Hector Sosa and make a few dollars. 

 

Anyway, I believe the best policy is to have a year supply of food and maybe a shotgun and some ammo.  Otherwise, enjoy yourself and live your life.

 

As a side note, I went through Hurricane Ike in the fall of 2008 and this is what I saw:

 

1. Having food storage is pure gold! 

2. The so called "survivalists" in our ward (most likely AVOW members) were nowhere to be found after the hurricane hit, when we went around helping people dig out from the debris.  We later found out they were holled-up in their houses protecting their hoard from the looters -- who never showed up. LOL! 

3. The "normal" members spent their time helping others and sharing their food and supplies with others.

 

Afterward the crisis, the "survivalists" only talked about how miserable the experience was of having to constantly find fuel for their backup generators, etc.  While, we, the normal people, only talked about how great of an experience it was to help others recover from the disaster from sun up to sun down, then play games and eat by the campfire at night (since there was no power).  

 

So, it's safe to say, living in a tent city with AVOWITES would be living hell as they are the most paranoid, selfish people I have ever met.

 

I'm sure the AVOW members will pipe in and tell me just how deceived and wrong I am, but hey, I call it as I see it.  

 

Just listen to the prophet, keep a year supply of food and trust in the Lord.  That's all you need. 

[Calm]

I don't think we have any AVOW members on the board as posters.