The Nehor Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) She doesn't mention Dehlin, and it doesn't seem she quotes him at all. She does use some of his activities though as reference.Anyway the piece is littered with things like "He certainly believed that he had a more enlightened idea than God. He might have said something like, if this “strait is the way” doctrine is God’s, “he’s got a lot of explaining to do.” and " Nehor did, probably becoming the very champion of the dispossessed."I think it's clear, she is indicating she sees agreement between Nehor/Korihor and those like Dehlin/Kelly. I don't knw that her case holds a great deal of water--with this comparison. BUt that's what she's doing.Stop trying to drag me and Korihor into this mess. Edited February 9, 2015 by The Nehor 2
Pahoran Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 Well we agree there... She is indicating that she sees agreement between Nehor/Korihor and Dehlin but she doesn't back it up with actual scripture or quotes from Nehor/Korihor. I guess that's what bugs me about it... it's like she's saying: I think that Nehor/Korihor would say what Dehlin is saying if only they were alive right now. I find that to be offensive speculation and unproductive.Why is it, that whenever some person A expresses an opinion about the activities of some other person B, there is bound to be some person C somewhere who is going to start hyperventilating about how "offended" they are?When they weren't even the subject of the discussion?Don't you Dehlinites have anything better to do than get "offended" any time anyone offers your hero anything less than unstinting adulation?Regards,Pahoran 1
juliann Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 She what? I don't even see Dehlin referenced. I see Kate Kelly referenced: "Please be clear that I am not calling Kate Kelly a Korihor, nor would I..."Where does she call Dehlin an antichrist? Isn't Korihor called an anti-Christ? That is no less subtle than inserting Hitler into an otherwise unrelated conversation.... So not necessary. Not to mention that for her unsubtle comparison to work Dehlin would have to beg for forgiveness to no avail...and then get trampled.
rockpond Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 Why is it, that whenever some person A expresses an opinion about the activities of some other person B, there is bound to be some person C somewhere who is going to start hyperventilating about how "offended" they are?When they weren't even the subject of the discussion?Don't you Dehlinites have anything better to do than get "offended" any time anyone offers your hero anything less than unstinting adulation?Regards,Pahoran I'm not a Dehlinite, nor is he my hero. I'm also not hyperventilating but thanks for the concern. In any case, to answer your question, when something is done under the name of the church to which I belong, it reflects on me.
ERayR Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 Well we agree there... She is indicating that she sees agreement between Nehor/Korihor and Dehlin but she doesn't back it up with actual scripture or quotes from Nehor/Korihor. I guess that's what bugs me about it... it's like she's saying: I think that Nehor/Korihor would say what Dehlin is saying if only they were alive right now. I find that to be offensive speculation and unproductive. Why?
ERayR Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 I'm not a Dehlinite, nor is he my hero. I'm also not hyperventilating but thanks for the concern. In any case, to answer your question, when something is done under the name of the church to which I belong, it reflects on me. Why is her comparison invalid. Is there no parallels? Look close.
rockpond Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Why is her comparison invalid. Is there no parallels? Look close. I've read it and do not see where she has established parallels without putting words in their mouths.
rockpond Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) Dehlin's MSNBC interview today... http://www.msnbc.com/the-cycle/watch/speaking-out-for-equality-396390979751 I hope that the reason for his SP not following procedure and waiting to deliver their decision in a letter is so that there is a document making it crystal clear that Dehlin's SSM advocacy is NOT the reason for the discipline. I'd like to put that one to bed. Edited February 10, 2015 by rockpond
ksfisher Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Dehlin's MSNBC interview today... http://www.msnbc.com/the-cycle/watch/speaking-out-for-equality-396390979751 I hope that the reason for his SP not following procedure and waiting to deliver their decision in a letter is so that there is a document making it crystal clear that Dehlin's SSM advocacy is NOT the reason for the discipline. I'd like to put that one to bed. What procedure is the stake president not following?
Avatar4321 Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Yes, she disagrees with the positions of Dehlin but she didn't actually take a sincere approach to debating his positions. Instead she drew oversimplified parallels between Dehlin and the antichrists... Saying that if Nehor/Korihor were around today he would say what Dehlin is saying. Is it cool to play that game? "Nehor did all this by “bearing down against the Church” with a most seductive alternative. If he had a blog he might have written, “I have my complaints” about the Church, and then later said that he got in all this trouble “Just for asking questions”. Of course, like many who say they are “just asking questions”, what Nehor actually did was make a series of assertions that flew right in the face of doctrine, while probably claiming that he was doing it for the people’s own good. He may have claimed that he was saving the anxious and depressed who found the laws of the Church terribly strict." "If Korihor were blogging today, he would belittle the truth claims of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. Despite mounds of evidence to the contrary, he would claim that there is not one shred of evidence that the Book of Mormon came from an ancient document." What is the implication if I were to write: "If an XYZ antichrist were here with us today, he would say just what you are saying."What do you think korihor would be saying differently?
Teancum Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 I'm not a Dehlinite, nor is he my hero. I'm also not hyperventilating but thanks for the concern. In any case, to answer your question, when something is done under the name of the church to which I belong, it reflects on me. Rockpond don't you see Pahoran in his classic mode seeks to poison the well be trying to place you as a sycophant. It is hard to have a rational conversation when such an approach is taken. 1
Avatar4321 Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 that Greek group Anonymous is supposed to take over or take down or whatever the Church if Dehlin gets exed http://beehivebugle.com/2015/02/07/anonymous-prepared-to-allegedly-seize-lds-org-if-john-dehlin-is-excommunicated/This at all serious?
Avatar4321 Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Rockpond don't you see Pahoran in his classic mode seeks to poison the well be trying to place you as a sycophant. It is hard to have a rational conversation when such an approach is taken.Ironic when your poisoning the well on him.
rockpond Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 What procedure is the stake president not following? Handbook calls for the decision to be delivered in person at the disciplinary council. But, as I've indicated before, I think Dehlin has provided sufficient reason to make reasonably minor administrative departures from the handbook.
rockpond Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 What do you think korihor would be saying differently? Doesn't matter. It's all speculation.
rockpond Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Rockpond don't you see Pahoran in his classic mode seeks to poison the well be trying to place you as a sycophant. It is hard to have a rational conversation when such an approach is taken. Good point.
mormonnewb Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Dehlin's MSNBC interview today... http://www.msnbc.com/the-cycle/watch/speaking-out-for-equality-396390979751 I hope that the reason for his SP not following procedure and waiting to deliver their decision in a letter is so that there is a document making it crystal clear that Dehlin's SSM advocacy is NOT the reason for the discipline. I'd like to put that one to bed. I really hate to be the guy who says I told you so, but I did. Dehlin is now on MSNBC, giving his side of the story to the national media. So, unless I'm mistaken in my math (I did attend public schools), more non-Mormons will see this interview than saw the Meet the Mormons movie. Great job, Team PR! Perhaps, we can now do something to counteract all of the goodwill we earn from MoTab. Perhaps, there's a leper or a disabled child that we could publicly harass. Some "problems" really are best left unsolved.
Popular Post Avatar4321 Posted February 10, 2015 Popular Post Posted February 10, 2015 I really hate to be the guy who says I told you so, but I did. Dehlin is now on MSNBC, giving his side of the story to the national media. So, unless I'm mistaken in my math (I did attend public schools), more non-Mormons will see this interview than saw the Meet the Mormons movie. Great job, Team PR! Perhaps, we can now do something to counteract all of the goodwill we earn from MoTab. Perhaps, there's a leper or a disabled child that we could publicly harass. Some "problems" really are best left unsolved.You are seriously overestimating how many people watch msnbc 7
Avatar4321 Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Doesn't matter. It's all speculation.Is it really?
mormonnewb Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 You are seriously overestimating how many people watch msnbc If it's more than 50, then I like my odds on this having more non-Mormon viewers than our movie.
Duncan Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 If it's more than 50, then I like my odds on this having more non-Mormon viewers than our movie. I am wondering out loud if people weren't interested in the Church before would they be now that they saw John Dehlin on TV? I think people would be apathetic to this sort of thing
mormonnewb Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 You are seriously overestimating how many people watch msnbc And even more than the sheer numbers of viewers is the narrative. While I would guess that his excommunication will not solely rest on his support of SSM and OW, that's the impression that a viewer reach from the interview. And the best part was the comparison of other faiths to our own and the suggestion that we need to "grow up." How does that add to our "restoration of the original church" narrative? And the worst part is that Dehlin's complaints are not invalid. The modern Catholic Church doesn't try to strip membership from its rank and file members over issues of heresy. In fact, they're still trying to live down some of their more strident efforts at enforcing orthodoxy from more than a 1,000 years ago. And they didn't even have to contend with Twitter. I really think that our efforts to discredit Dehlin are working far more in his favor than our own.
mormonnewb Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 I am wondering out loud if people weren't interested in the Church before would they be now that they saw John Dehlin on TV? I think people would be apathetic to this sort of thing Fair point. But for the six or so curious people in the states, I imagine that this interview didn't convert any more than 4 of them.
rockpond Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Is it really?The way it was done in the article? Yes.
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