Freedom Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 The Trinity is taught in BC 556 in the Book of Mormon 2 Nephi 31;21If you understand the trinity to be three separate and distinct people being united in purpose and power then yes, this is the trinity. If the trinity where to appear before you, you would see three separate and distinct people. United in purpose as we must be united.
HOLY CATHOLIC Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I'm afraid not since we say 1X1X1=1 ONE GOD Mormons teach 1+1+1= 3 three gods big difference
Flyonthewall Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 The Trinity is taught in BC 556 in the Book of Mormon 2 Nephi 31;21Except for that substance/essence stuff that simply isn't there. There is some overlap, but not completely.
Flyonthewall Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 99.8 % of all Christian denominations teach " With in the nature of the ONE GOD exists three separate and distinct persons. The only ones that teach modalism that I know of are United Pentecostal Church of God "Jesus Only" and the Way International . Jeffrey R. Holland and Robert Hales are very confused And I know Jeffrey R. Holland even used language to that effect - that it is very confusing. As I mentioned before, there are many Trinitarians that use modalistic terms to describe the Trinity, so there are many trinitarians that are confused too. When you base your faith on a "mystery", there is bound to be enough confusion to go around. 1
Tacenda Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 And I know Jeffrey R. Holland even used language to that effect - that it is very confusing. As I mentioned before, there are many Trinitarians that use modalistic terms to describe the Trinity, so there are many trinitarians that are confused too.When you base your faith on a "mystery", there is bound to be enough confusion to go around.You're so right, it is a mystery. It could be both those versions or it could be something all together different. And the only LDS member in auhority that has been there and seen that is Joseph Smith, atleast the only one that spoke/testified of seeing both the Father and the Son side by side, albeit it took several versions of the FV before we got the canonized one we currently have.
Freedom Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I'm afraid not since we say 1X1X1=1 ONE GOD Mormons teach 1+1+1= 3 three gods big differenceAnd where is 1x1x1 found in the scriptures? You very creeds say they are three separate individuals. You yourself said they are three separate individuals. The correct rendering is, based on your own definition, as follows:One Holy Ghost plus one Savior plus one Father = One Eternal God Or in another rendering, One Eternal Godhead.
HOLY CATHOLIC Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 The Book of Mormon teaches God is incomprehensible or mystery Mosiah 4:9
HOLY CATHOLIC Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Substance Essence Being God and Godhead are synonym's in creedal verbiage
bluebell Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) The Book of Mormon teaches God is incomprehensible or mysteryMosiah 4:9No it doesn't. It teaches that God doesn't understand everything God understands.Edit to add: I just realize what I wrote. I meant that it says WE don't understand everything God understands. Edited January 20, 2015 by bluebell
Kevin Christensen Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Proof texting is never as informative as careful contextualization, except in what it reveals about the practitioner, relative to the subject. Recommended reading. Margaret Barker's The Great Angel: A Study of Israel's Second God, and then in that context, a careful, contextual reading of the Book of Mormon. And for me, that context includes the settings that it claims for itself, notably Jerusalem around 600 BCE before the first temple was destroyed. FWIW Kevin Christensen Canonsburg, PA Edited January 20, 2015 by Kevin Christensen 3
Ahab Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Interesting. But I wonder if you're not overcomplicating and even unnecessarily mystifying (heaven forbid) something that is really quite simple and easy enough for even a child to understand? We know that the spirits that animate our bodies here on earth are, in an elemental sense, made of light because the 84th section of the D&C tells us that "whatsoever is light is spirit," which for all intents and purposes makes light and spirit interchangeable in nature. Then D&C 88: 40 tells us "intelligence cleaveth unto intelligence; wisdom receiveth wisdom; truth embraceth truth; virtue loveth virtue; (and) light cleaveth unto light... So then, it seems to me all there is to it is that the Spirit of God -- a powerful and active holy substance composed of light and truth, that conveys it's greater light and truth to individual intelligences -- simply comes into direct substance to substance contact with our spirit (like a current of electricity passing from one circuit to another) and then the light within our spirit responds to and cleaves or fuses with a portion of this more powerful source of light, truth and power we call the Spirit of God. I don't see what we have to gain by making the process of the ever increasing spiritual enlightenment and empowerment of intelligences any more complicated than this simple explanation. If it all boils down to light cleaving unto light (like substances attract), then, for our purposes here earth, there's no need to make the dynamics of the process of spiritual growth anymore complicated or mystifying. I thought it was our Catholic friends who tend to rejoice in and dwell on mystification. But for the Latter-day Saints, the principle of light cleaving unto light is a simple and easy concept to understand, even easy enough for a young child to grasp. And, as you know, it's only when we understand something that we can be edified by it. Conjuring perplexities where none need exist is unwarranted, The K.I.S.S. principle is just as useful in religion as it is in any other field, especially when the word of God gives us the green light to keep it simple.Now if you would just show me that you understand how the Holy Spirit, a "he", conveys and communicates with us and even dwells within us, sometimes, you will answer the question the question you asked me a while back.I like to use the example of the sun in our solar system as an analogy, although the sun is thought of as an "it" instead of a "he". It (or he as the Holy Spirit) is in a particular place, although moving to different places within its/his domain and at the same time can be felt and infused into (other) living things, actually dwelling in those bodies. Like how the light of the sun is the sun itself communicating with and dwelling in a plant or a person, so much so that we can say it is the sun that is helping things to grow and feel its/his presence inside of it/us and that without it/him we would be cut off from the light that we need in our lives.He is the source of what he radiates, and the light from him is him radiating his light to us throughout the immensity of the space he occupies and influences.
MormonFreeThinker Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) I'm afraid not since we say 1X1X1=1 ONE GOD Nope, you say 1 + 1 + 1 = 1 The Trinity is the only religious doctrine in the world that contradicts Mathematical truths. If the world is not real, 1 + 1 +1 = 3 is still true. Mathematical truths will remain true. Edited January 20, 2015 by MormonFreeThinker
HOLY CATHOLIC Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Christian like Catholics and Protestants teach a plurality of persons yet ONE GOD so its 1X1X1-1 Google modalism and find out we don't teach Edited January 20, 2015 by HOLY CATHOLIC
Ahab Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Christian like Catholics and Protestants teach a plurality of persons yet ONE GOD so its 1X1X1-1Google modalism and find out we don't teach Exactly! One kind of being, the kind we call God, and more than one person who is God.Don't let anyone convince you that that is wrong!
Anakin7 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) From my LDS Kryptonian Jedi Knight Archive - http://www.lightplanet.com/response/trinity.htm In His Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited January 20, 2015 by Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 More from a LDS Kryptonian Saint - http://www.14lds.com/trinity.htm In His Debt/Grace Anakin7
HOLY CATHOLIC Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Your LDS kryptonian is completely wrong , go to the Easton Bible dictionary and really find out what the Trinity teaches
MormonFreeThinker Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Your LDS kryptonian is completely wrong , go to the Easton Bible dictionary and really find out what the Trinity teaches "The New Testament contains no explicit trinitarian doctrine"http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/trinity/trinity-history.html The Trinity 1 + 1 + 1 = 1 contradicts mathematical truths.
HOLY CATHOLIC Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 MARK 12:28-28 teaches the Trinity 1X1X1 = 1 and Jesus says is the greatest command and the Jews called this specific verse the SHEMA The First book of the Bible teaches ONE GOD plural persons The Book of Mormon is full of them 2 Nephi 31:21, Alma 11:44 and Mormon 7:7
bobatnauvoo Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Whether the content of the Book of Mormon clarifies the nature of the Godhead isn't actually that important. The fact that the Book of Mormon itself exists and is true means that Joseph Smith actually did see at least two visibile members of the Godhead during the first vision. His further teachings give us perfect clarity.
theplains Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Whether the content of the Book of Mormon clarifies the nature of the Godhead isn't actually that important. That makes sense. Several things taught in the seminary manuals are not even in the Book of Mormon. Its understandable why some Mormon sects view the main larger LDS body asapostate. Regards,Jim
bluebell Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 That makes sense. Several things taught in the seminary manuals are not even in the Book of Mormon. Its understandable why some Mormon sects view the main larger LDS body asapostate. Regards,Jim I liked to see some references outlining exactly why some Mormon sects believe us to be in apostasy. I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about. 1
Freedom Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 MARK 12:28-28 teaches the Trinity 1X1X1 = 1 and Jesus says is the greatest command and the Jews called this specific verse the SHEMA The First book of the Bible teaches ONE GOD plural persons The Book of Mormon is full of them 2 Nephi 31:21, Alma 11:44 and Mormon 7:7 And this is exactly what we believe. One God, Three people. Why are you having a difficult time understanding this? Or as the creeds explain it, one godhead. that is, God is a title, not a person.
HOLY CATHOLIC Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Yes three persons exist as the ONE GOD not three gods like Joseph Smith taught
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) MARK 12:28-28 teaches the Trinity 1X1X1 = 1 and Jesus says is the greatest command and the Jews called this specific verse the SHEMA The First book of the Bible teaches ONE GOD plural persons The Book of Mormon is full of them 2 Nephi 31:21, Alma 11:44 and Mormon 7:7 Multiplication is groups of something or simply, groups of numbers. 1x1x1 is not accurate at all in trying to use math for the Godhead. It would always have to be 1 + 1 +1= 1. That is contradictory to the laws of math. It doesn't work. it equals 3. God is a title though. "God is one" means they are one in purpose and that they have the same mind. Not in substance or essence or some other mystical scene. John 17 makes that very clear. Edited January 22, 2015 by Mola Ram Suda Ram
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