Surge Has Subsided But Missionary Work Continues Apace

[mfbukowski]

New York isn't #1?  Boy, it's a good thing you guys aren't in neighboring states and you have a vast buffer zone of "flyover country" between you; otherwise, we might have to worry about New York trying to wipe you off the map after an insult like that!

Well having lived in Manhattan for 3 years on Washington Square in the West Village in the 70's, unfortunately I would have to agree with you, and concede your point.

 

We New Yorkers make we Angelenos look like pikers in the title of Most Secular.  Too many loving and religious Hispanic families in LA to make the cut. 

[Scott Lloyd]

I suspect that we are still in the wake of the recent age change. In two or three more years it will fall, I suspect, unless another change is made (ie.Internet missions served from home, or a push to expand non-prosteletyzing service missions).

How far will it fall? Back down to 2012 levels?

[Mike Reed]

I dont know how far it will fall. However, I think the biggest concern lds should have is for those who not only leave for missions, but also complete them. Needless to say, missionaries who return home early are highly unlikely to remain active in the Church. http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2014/08/salt-lake-city-we-have-a-problem/

Edited January 10, 2015 by Mike Reed

[Coreyb]

Most missionaries I meet here in Utah look bored and gloomy.

[readstoomuch]

I love this article. In many parts of the US and Europe, missionaries need to "have a better experience." Every thing in this article I have said in our missionary meeting. Them I tried to get an appt with High Councilman over missionary work. No go, my bishop is supportive. This article is so good and explains what boots on the ground are seeing. I don't see much coming from Salt Lake. We here about Facebook contacting,teaching family history and service. The message we get from the mission president is about proselyting, the missionaries stayed with me for two weeks while waiting for an apartment. I think if that happened by a general authority, things would change much faster.

Edited January 10, 2015 by readstoomuch

[Boanerges]

How far will it fall? Back down to 2012 levels?

I don't think so simply because there are more sister missionaries now and I think despite a bubble in sisters there will continue to be more sisters. Sisters who wouldn't have gone before because they got married or fell into sinful activity which disqualifies them in their minds now go before those things happen.

[Boanerges]

I dont know how far it will fall. However, I think the biggest concern lds should have is for those who not only leave for missions, but also complete them. Needless to say, missionaries who return home early are highly unlikely to remain active in the Church. http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2014/08/salt-lake-city-we-have-a-problem/

And another problem is many who do complete their missions also become less active. Some GAs have acknowledged this but I'm not sure they have a cure. All those hours of studying present many opportunities for questions and doubts. My missionary son said several missionaries in his mission were hit pretty hard by the latest polygamy essay and the mission president had to address some concerns in a mission conference. Apologetics only go so far.

[rongo]

I think for many young people a mission is a cultural right of passage that has social consequences for non attendance, rather than an expression of a religious desire to proselyte and serve (although there is certainly an element of that as well). 

What an insightful comment! I definitely think that the vast majority of young missionaries today go because it's "a cultural rite of passage that has social consequences for non-attendance," and not because of "a religious desire to proselyte." This will only increase as proselyting continues to be de-emphasized. I think this is very sad and unfortunate.

 

Scott, do you remember a DN article that was quite defensive in response to a (USA Today?) article talking about how convert baptisms are at the same levels with 80,000+ missionaries as it was with 53,000? The gist of the article was that it is too early to tell, more time is needed, etc. to be able to say whether we are, in fact, baptizing less considering the near doubling of the "missionary" force. I found this tack to be misguided. We shouldn't act shocked or defensive about this, since our missionaries aren't actually doing "missionary" work (leg work to find, teach, and baptize converts). No big surprise.

 

I often wonder about my own children (the oldest is now nearly fifteen). They are excited to do traditional tracting, street contacting, street displays, reactivating, area book work, etc. If that is even more taboo in a few years, will they be "disobedient" or "rebellious" missionaries if they do some of these things, even if they are commanded not to?

[rongo]

It occurs to me that missionary work outside of North America is probably still pretty traditional. That is, foreign missionaries probably still do missionary "work" as opposed to social media or service work. Anyone know if this is the case?

[Robert F. Smith]

..........................................................................  

 

My father was recently released as a YSA bishop, after six years. He and my mom have been called to teach mission prep, but one week out of each month has been set aside for a family services counselor to teach coping skills. Really foofy, bizarre stuff, like having the kids take their shoes and socks off, sit in a circle with their eyes closed, and "feeling" the stress melt away. 

Several of the Brethren have spoken very positively about the value of meditation, although I don't imagine that they are encouraging adoption of the methods of Transcendental Meditation, nor of repeatedly chanting "nammyohorengekyo" in front of a mandala (gohonzon) Nichiren Shoshu style.

 

However, taking off shoes and letting the stress melt away sounds worthwhile to me.  Not foofy or bizarre at all.

[Robert F. Smith]

It's not just in England, rockpond. Most single 18-30 year-olds in heavily-LDS areas go inactive and missing (or get into law of chastity trouble). As I said, my dad was a YSA bishop in a YSA stake for six years, and I knew of the YSAs in my ward and stake when I was a bishop. It's a major, major problem that I think the Church is trying to address through near ubiquitous missions at a younger age. However, by sharply decreasing the rigor of missions, I don't think the missions are having the intended effect. The source of the problem is really the softness of LDS homes and upbringing, in my book.

Maybe then a stint in the USMC?  The guys I knew who did that wanted it tough.  They knew exactly what they were getting into and reveled in it.  Mormons need to think of being "the few, the proud," in their own right.

[Robert F. Smith]

By my totally subjective measure of own endowments on my temple shift, after the "surge" we went down to nearly 0 own endowments for new missionaries, but now the levels are back almost to the surge levels, but now including a lot of new members as well as outgoing missionaries.

 

By my totally subjective assessment, we have nothing to worry about.  And I live in about the most "secular" city in the country, LA,

When I lived there not so long ago, it was a great mission field.  Lots of opportunity to meet and greet non-members.  Lots of baptisms and moving testimonies from new converts in missionary meetings.  And splits aplenty.

[Robert F. Smith]

And another problem is many who do complete their missions also become less active. Some GAs have acknowledged this but I'm not sure they have a cure. All those hours of studying present many opportunities for questions and doubts. My missionary son said several missionaries in his mission were hit pretty hard by the latest polygamy essay and the mission president had to address some concerns in a mission conference. Apologetics only go so far.

It is good that they have to face questions on their own to some extent.  The mission should be a crucible of testing well away from  home and parochial concerns.  Some won't make the cut?  Oh, well.  C'est la vie!

[Rain]

Oh well? No. We are talking about children of God here. The one we go after. Sometimes our own child, nephew or friend. We have to have agency, but that doesn't mean we stop hoping.

I've been wondering if part of the surge hasn't gone down yet because of the time waiting for calls and waiting to leave. DS had several friends that waited 6 months before leaving after getting their calls. Now he has another friend who has been waiting for a call since September. When mentioning this to a friend she told me of a boy she knew that just left after waiting for a call for 6 months. When the bishop called to find out the reason for the hold up he was told several times it wasn't time yet.

[Scott Lloyd]

I dont know how far it will fall.

It is already down from the peak of the surge. As indicated in my article, that was expected and foregone. The remarkable thing is that the decrease is not nearly to the extent that was anticipated for this point in time.

 

For a prognostication like this to be meaningful, there must be some indication of how substantial the drop will be. Will the number diminish to pre-2012 levels, as though there had been no change made? Will it be just under what it is now? Somewhere in between? What?

 

However, I think the biggest concern lds should have is for those who not only leave for missions, but also complete them. Needless to say, missionaries who return home early are highly unlikely to remain active in the Church.

I think it depends on individual circumstances. In a post above, I described one young man who came home early who is still active and, in all likelihood, will remain so. The others in my ward who've come back early (none did because of moral worthiness issues) show no sign that ive seen of going inactive, and they face no stigma among us.

Not every early return has to do with worthiness issues, and not every one results in a crisis or a falling away.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[Stargazer]

Maybe then a stint in the USMC?  The guys I knew who did that wanted it tough.  They knew exactly what they were getting into and reveled in it.  Mormons need to think of being "the few, the proud," in their own right.

 

I sort of did that.  Served my mission, got married, and joined the Army.  Not the Marines, I wasn't that masochistic.  I loved Basic Training and Advanced Infantry Training.  If I hadn't been physically unqualified for it, I might have gone Ranger, too.  Not everyone can be in Special Ops.

[readstoomuch]

I don`t think that service or social media is negative for most missionaries. Service is a great missionary activity and way to feel the spirit. It seems to me that it is when they having nothing to do that the problems start. The idea of missionaries being more involved in their wards and working on the skills to enter into the world and workforce would also be positive moves. As far as missionaries coming home, if they don`t come back for transgression, then if their familly and ward support them things go much better. The article in Times and Seasons was really the way I see it.

[mfbukowski]

Maybe then a stint in the USMC?  The guys I knew who did that wanted it tough.  They knew exactly what they were getting into and reveled in it.  Mormons need to think of being "the few, the proud," in their own right.

What is needed is the understanding that we have nothing to fear from secularism, with our similarities with humanism.

Unfortunately it seems the LDS people do not understand these things. We are the most humanistic faith there is- we even believe God is human. To have a true understanding of our theology is to have a complete understanding of what humanism could be. There can be no higher ambition for mankind than to become gods in embryo.

We can raise the slogan "Be all you can be" to a new level, if people only understood that that is what we are about.

Edited January 10, 2015 by mfbukowski

[USU78]

Very encouraging news .... except of course for those unlucky souls called to the new Utah-Orem Mission. 

 

GOAGS!

[rongo]

I sort of did that.  Served my mission, got married, and joined the Army.  Not the Marines, I wasn't that masochistic.  I loved Basic Training and Advanced Infantry Training.  If I hadn't been physically unqualified for it, I might have gone Ranger, too.  Not everyone can be in Special Ops.

My dad joined the Marines after his mission.  He went and saw "Patton" and went and immediately enlisted.

[carbon dioxide]

What is needed is the understanding that we have nothing to fear from secularism, with our similarities with humanism.

Unfortunately it seems the LDS people do not understand these things. We are the most humanistic faith there is- we even believe God is human. To have a true understanding of our theology is to have a complete understanding of what humanism could be. There can be no higher ambition for mankind than to become gods in embryo.

We can raise the slogan "Be all you can be" to a new level, if people only understood that that is what we are about.

I don't think we believe God is human.  God is a glorified, perfect, immortal man but not human like you and me.   Secularism is fine as long as it does not crowd out more important things and basically becomes our god instead.

[mfbukowski]

I don't think we believe God is human.  God is a glorified, perfect, immortal man but not human like you and me.   Secularism is fine as long as it does not crowd out more important things and basically becomes our god instead.

Let's take that apart shall we?

How precisely does this:

I don't think we believe God is human. God is a glorified, perfect, immortal man

fit with this:

 

but not human like you and me

There are non-human "men"?

 

Clearly He is not exactly "like" you and me, but I do not recall saying He was.  I find it difficult to walk through walls and emit light and create planets and read minds, but I am working on all of those.    But surely each of us has a spark of His divinity.

 

 

Secularism is fine as long as it does not crowd out more important things and basically becomes our god instead.

I hate to break it to you, but it already has.

 

The God Species

 

We humans are the God species, both the creators and destroyers of life on this planet. As we enter a new geological era - the Anthropocene - our collective power now overwhelms and dominates the major forces of nature.

But from the water cycle to the circulation of nitrogen and carbon through the entire Earth system, we are coming dangerously close to destroying the planetary life-support systems that sustain us. In this controversial new book, Royal Society Science Books Prize winner Mark Lynas shows us how we must use our new mastery over nature to save the planet from ourselves.

Taking forward the work of a brilliant new group of Earth-system scientists who have mapped out our real 'planetary boundaries', Lynas draws up a radical manifesto calling for the increased use of environmentally-friendly technologies like genetic engi- neering and nuclear power as part of a global effort to use humanity's best tools to protect and nurture the biosphere.

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-God-Species-Saving-Planet/dp/142620891X

 

If we can harness the power of this kind of thinking and turn it into missionary potential, there is no end to what this church can become.

 

On the other hand, we can sit back and worry about whether or not our Godhead is compatible with the substance-based metaphysics of the Nicene Creed and the Trinity, so we get to be called "Christians" by the cool kids in the Protestant playground, which is what we have been doing for 150 years.

 

I say let's move forward and seize the day.

[Scott Lloyd]

What an insightful comment! I definitely think that the vast majority of young missionaries today go because it's "a cultural rite of passage that has social consequences for non-attendance," and not because of "a religious desire to proselyte." This will only increase as proselyting continues to be de-emphasized. I think this is very sad and unfortunate.

 

i think your phrase "vast majority" is a "vast:" exaggeration. When I hear "vast majority," I think 70 percent or more. Are you prepared to argue convincingly that 70 percent or more of young people who answer mission calls do it only because it's a "rite of passage," that a testimony of the gospel or a desire to serve God and share His plan of salvation with others plays no part in their motivation? I think that's a cynical view, and it's not what I see reflected in the countenances and spirit of young missionaries when I attend the devotionals at the Provo MTC at least twice a year. It's not what I hear in the sacrament meeting talks given in my ward being given by departing and returning missionaries.

 

Scott, do you remember a DN article that was quite defensive in response to a (USA Today?) article talking about how convert baptisms are at the same levels with 80,000+ missionaries as it was with 53,000? The gist of the article was that it is too early to tell, more time is needed, etc. to be able to say whether we are, in fact, baptizing less considering the near doubling of the "missionary" force. I found this tack to be misguided. We shouldn't act shocked or defensive about this, since our missionaries aren't actually doing "missionary" work (leg work to find, teach, and baptize converts). No big surprise.

 

 

I don't remember such a "defensive" article. Do you have a link?

 

I know the Tribune is wont to make an issue out of convert-baptism rates, and something it did might have been picked up by a wire service, which would account for your seeing something about it in USA Today. Again, I don't remember seeing a Deseret News article specifically in response to such a thing.

 

But looking at convert baptism rates alone is a rather narrow metric. Suppose the global influence of the devil (as prophesied in the vision shown to Nephi) has grown so intense that a greatly expanded missionary force is necessary just to hold the convert rate steady. In that event, the expansion of the missionary force would not have been a failure. And more often than in the past, today's missionaries are being used to rescue and reactivate those who have fallen away. Not to be neglected is the converting influence that missionary service has on the missionary himself or herself. If fewer young people end up falling away because they are involved earlier in full-time service to God, that would be a huge blessing.

 

Measuring results from all these considerations taken together will take more than a couple of years. And it is not being "defensive" to say so.

 

I often wonder about my own children (the oldest is now nearly fifteen). They are excited to do traditional tracting, street contacting, street displays, reactivating, area book work, etc. If that is even more taboo in a few years, will they be "disobedient" or "rebellious" missionaries if they do some of these things, even if they are commanded not to?

 

So far, I have nothing better than rumor from you that proselytizing efforts are being de-emphasized in the missionary force of today. I typically attend the yearly Seminar for New Mission Presidents and the annual Seminar for New MTC Presidents and Visitors' Center Directors. I've never heard anything like that at either of those events.

 

I'll wait and see what happens.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[rongo]

i think your phrase "vast majority" is a "vast:" exaggeration. When I hear "vast majority," I think 70 percent or more. Are you prepared to argue convincingly that 70 percent or more of young people who answer mission calls do it only because it's a "rite of passage," that a testimony of the gospel or a desire to serve God and share His plan of salvation with others plays no part in their motivation?

 

I think that at least 70% of missionaries who go go *primarily* because it's a rite of passage and/or it's culturally expected. That isn't to say, as you say, that a desire to share the gospel with others doesn't factor in as well (it does) --- just that it isn't the primary reason for most. At least in my opinion and in my experience. How often do you go on splits with your missionaries?

 

 

 

I don't remember such a "defensive" article. Do you have a link?

 

No. That's why I wondered if you remembered it. It may have been a SL Trib article, as you say, but I seem to remember it originating in USA Today.

 

 

 

And more often than in the past, today's missionaries are being used to rescue and reactivate those who have fallen away.

 

I don't think they are doing *more* of this now than ever before. We did a lot of reactivating in northern Germany in the mid 1990s (getting to know all members on the list was an effective use of time, because attendance is low, and bringing someone back was as good as bringing in a convert, even then). And we did 7-10 hours of tracting or street contacting, typically.

 

 

 

Not to be neglected is the converting influence that missionary service has on the missionary himself or herself. If fewer young people end up falling away because they are involved earlier in full-time service to God, that would be a huge blessing.

 

I think this is the main motivation behind "the surge" ---- an expansion of the youth program after 18, in my view. I agree that less people falling away, going missing, or going inactive is a good thing. I'm not sure that current missions are a panacea for this.

 

 

 

 

So far, I have nothing better than rumor from you that proselytizing efforts are being de-emphasized in the missionary force of today. I typically attend the yearly Seminar for New Mission Presidents and the annual Seminar for New MTC Presidents and Visitors' Center Directors. I've never heard anything like that at either of those events.

 

You surely were at the Worldwide Leadership Training broadcast where Elder Perry announced that tracting isn't effective in today's world, and we are moving to social media contacting, chapel "tours," etc. instead. All I can personally attest to is what I hear and experience in my neck of the woods. You are free to dismiss it as "rumor," if you want. I think it squares with most people's experience here in North America.

 

 

Edited January 11, 2015 by rongo

[rongo]

Looks like you were right, Scott. I think it was "good ol' Peggy Fletcher Stack:"

 

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57862203-78/missionaries-church-converts-lds.html.csp

 

I have seen some USA Today articles about missionary work and trends, too.