ERayR Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I am not Catholic but the following quote from Catholic.com is in agreement with what I have said on this subject Try again. I am not a practitioner of Catholicism either.
mormonnewb Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Perhaps, we should look to whom CHRIST would consider Christian. By His very words, he said: "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." John 13:35 By this standard alone, Mormons are the best Christians that I've come across in my sojourns throughout Christianity and I've been a member of just about every denomination of Christians, with the exception of the Catholics, Amish and the Branch Davidians. In fact, there was a Pew poll a few years ago that found that Mormons have a greater intra-denominational affinity than any other denomination of Christians. Of course, one could say that love alone is not the sole answer to the question. After all, there are Buddhist and Muslim communities that are full of love for one another, but make no claims to be Christian. However, that isn't the case with Mormons. The LDS Church makes the same fundamental claim as all Christians -- that Jesus Christ is the Savior and died for the sins of the world. Sure, some Mormon beliefs differ from those of other Christian sects, but once again, Christ gave us a way to determine blasphemy and false teachings. "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits." Matthew 7:15-16 If Mormon prophets are false prophets than we should be able to tell by the fruits manifested in the Church's membership. But once again, the fruit of Mormonism is quite good. In fact, I contend that Mormons are amongst the very fruitiest of Christians. On second thought, perhaps I should find a better to express that sentiment. But in any event, it seems to me that Christ would define Mormons as his disciples, and that's good enough for me. Edited January 7, 2015 by mormonnewb 3
Anakin7 Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I have in the past asked a # of lay members that are Catholic/one of the members of the 7 families Of Orthodox/Lutheran/Calvery Chapel/Evangelicals and they have Stated to me that thay expect to see some Mormons in Heaven. Forgot to mention Billy Graham and the Late Chuck Smith. Even Charlette Pardee the Director of EXMFJ in Orange County has told me this. In His Debt/Grace Anakin7
LittleNipper Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 By their works we may know them. Has anyone ever considered how the Mormon Church makes its money? Consider Matthew 21:13, Luke 19:46 and Mark 11:15-17. The CHURCH was never to control farms and banks and other businesses. Even the Mormon Choir seems a money maker. Christians can have businesses but not the Church.
Anakin7 Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 And alot of that $ goes to feeding the poor,clothing the naked, putting shelter where they can lay there head and other charitable acts that are not public. In His Debt/Grace Anakin7
LittleNipper Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Not a bad point; however, charity in the Bible was always gathered through DONATIONS where the Temple of God was concerned. Would Jesus Christ want His CHURCH to become a business venture? I don't think so.
thesometimesaint Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Not a bad point; however, charity in the Bible was always gathered through DONATIONS where the Temple of God was concerned. Would Jesus Christ want His CHURCH to become a business venture? I don't think so. CFR.SEE http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Tithing-and-Offering/ Jesus had an accountant. Was his a "business venture"?
LittleNipper Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Jesus had also had fishermen. Was he running a cannery?
ERayR Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Jesus had also had fishermen. Was he running a cannery? Nope but they had a good booth at the market.
bluebell Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) By their works we may know them. Has anyone ever considered how the Mormon Church makes its money? Consider Matthew 21:13, Luke 19:46 and Mark 11:15-17. The CHURCH was never to control farms and banks and other businesses. Even the Mormon Choir seems a money maker. Christians can have businesses but not the Church. -And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves. -Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves. -And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple. And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves. Where again does the bible say that the church can't own businesses or make money? These verses are talking about using the temple (which is not the same thing as Christ's church-one is an organization, for example, while the other is a place) to cheat people and make money. They aren't addressing whether or not it's acceptable for the church to own businesses that make money for the church. Edited January 8, 2015 by bluebell
Teancum Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Christians are not Mormon and if I tried to argue that we were then you would probably scratch your head and wonder why someone would make that claim. So I am not sure why LDS don't seem to understand why Christians scratch their head when Mormons claim to be Christian.Mormon is a name given to LDS church member early in its history by enemies of the church.Your argument is a non sequieter.It is the same as me saying Protestant fundementalis are not Catholics and thus are not Christians. If I were to argue that they were you would scratch your head and wonder why...,,blah, blah, blah......
Canadaigua Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 .Your argument is a non sequieter.It is the same as me saying Protestant fundementalis are not Catholics and thus are not Christians. If I were to argue that they were you would scratch your head and wonder why...,,blah, blah, blah......It is not the same argument at all and despite the fact that I have tried to show you why you just don't seem to get it. A Christian is someone who follows Christ and His teachings as found in the Bible. Mormons follow a different God and a different gospel that is why Mormonism is not considered a Christian denomination but Protestants and Catholics would be. As I said before I am not Catholic but here is a quote from Catholic.com which says the same thing I did in a slightly different way.Full Question What does the Catholic Church say about the practices and beliefs of Mormonism?AnswerWhile individual Mormons may be persons of good conscience, Mormonism itself is a belief system that would reduce the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit from being the three Persons of the one, true, and infinite God to being three limited, finite deities among an uncounted multitude of deities, all of whom merely reshaped small parts of a preexisting cosmos.Mormonism teaches that human beings may, by practicing the tenets of its faith, become gods and goddesses themselves, with their own planets full of people worshiping them.While the Catholic Church would reject nothing that is true or good in Mormonism or any other world religion, Catholic theology would have to note that there is a tremendous amount in Mormonism that is neither true nor good. Further, because Mormonism presents itself as a form of Christianity yet is incompatible with the historic Christian faith, sound pastoral practice would need to warn the Christian faithful: Mormon theology is blasphemous, polytheistic, and cannot be considered on par with the theology of other Christian groups."http://www.catholic....fs-of-mormonism
Anakin7 Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 And note that Catholics are on the other side of the Bookshelf from Mormons in Christian Bookstores labeled - "Cult Section". In His Debt/Grace Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 See - www.standingtogether.org - thou critical of LDS Theology the demonstrate more Christlike/Charitable Luv. In His Debt/Grace Anakin7
thesometimesaint Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 It is not the same argument at all and despite the fact that I have tried to show you why you just don't seem to get it. A Christian is someone who follows Christ and His teachings as found in the Bible. Mormons follow a different God and a different gospel that is why Mormonism is not considered a Christian denomination but Protestants and Catholics would be. As I said before I am not Catholic but here is a quote from Catholic.com which says the same thing I did in a slightly different way.Full Question What does the Catholic Church say about the practices and beliefs of Mormonism?AnswerWhile individual Mormons may be persons of good conscience, Mormonism itself is a belief system that would reduce the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit from being the three Persons of the one, true, and infinite God to being three limited, finite deities among an uncounted multitude of deities, all of whom merely reshaped small parts of a preexisting cosmos.Mormonism teaches that human beings may, by practicing the tenets of its faith, become gods and goddesses themselves, with their own planets full of people worshiping them.While the Catholic Church would reject nothing that is true or good in Mormonism or any other world religion, Catholic theology would have to note that there is a tremendous amount in Mormonism that is neither true nor good. Further, because Mormonism presents itself as a form of Christianity yet is incompatible with the historic Christian faith, sound pastoral practice would need to warn the Christian faithful: Mormon theology is blasphemous, polytheistic, and cannot be considered on par with the theology of other Christian groups."http://www.catholic....fs-of-mormonism The LDS do not believe in three limited, finite deities among an uncounted multitude of deities, all of whom merely reshaped small parts of a preexisting cosmos. It really isn't a good idea to tell someone else what they believe. 4
bluebell Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Full Question What does the Catholic Church say about the practices and beliefs of Mormonism?AnswerWhile individual Mormons may be persons of good conscience, Mormonism itself is a belief system that would reduce the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit from being the three Persons of the one, true, and infinite God to being three limited, finite deities among an uncounted multitude of deities, all of whom merely reshaped small parts of a preexisting cosmos. This is not mormon theology. Besides that, i have no idea why you are going to a Catholic site to present to mormons what mormons believe. Can you really not see how unreasonable that is? Are you even Catholic? Edited January 8, 2015 by bluebell 3
Lachoneus Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) It is not the same argument at all and despite the fact that I have tried to show you why you just don't seem to get it. A Christian is someone who follows Christ and His teachings as found in the Bible. Mormons follow a different God and a different gospel that is why Mormonism is not considered a Christian denomination but Protestants and Catholics would be. As I said before I am not Catholic but here is a quote from Catholic.com which says the same thing I did in a slightly different way. Your logic is severely flawed. You claim that "Mormons follow a different God and a different gospel that is why Mormonism is not considered a Christian denomination but Protestants and Catholics would be." This is entirely illogical for several reasons. Here are just three. First, where is your definition of "Christian" found in the scriptures? The closest definition of Christian I can find is Acts 11:26 where Christian is merely another term used to describe disciples. Disciples are pupils or adherents of the doctrines of another. There is nothing in the scriptures or in the meaning of disciple that limits the definition of Christian to one who follows your particular interpretation of Christ's teachings. You and your interpretation of the Bible are not and never have been the Lord's standard by which the qualifications of others as Christians are to be judged. Therefore, the fact that Mormonism does not fit into your particular definition of Christian is entirely irrelevant to whether Mormons are Christians. Second, Protestants follow a gospel different than the gospel Catholics follow, both of which are different than the gospel Mormons follow. All three groups claim to be following the teachings of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, just as you claim for yourself. Yet you choose to define Christian as including Protestants and Catholics and excluding Mormons. This is a non sequitur. Mormons also follow the teachings of Christ as presented in the Bible, the same as Protestants and Catholics. Their particular interpretation of those teachings differs from the interpretations of the Protestants and Catholics, just as the interpretations of the Protestants and Catholics differ from each other. Each group has its own, distinct interpretation of the teachings in the Bible; yet each group is Christian. To exclude one group but not the other two is logically inconsistent. Third, nothing you have presented demonstrates in the least the correctness or superiority of your interpretation of biblical teachings above the interpretations of any other Christian groups, including the LDS interpretation. You have a different understanding of the Bible, but you have utterly failed to demonstrate the correctness of that understanding. Because of this failure, there is no factual or rational basis upon which to argue that other interpretations exclude those who hold to such other interpretations as being Christians. Edited January 8, 2015 by Lachoneus 2
Anakin7 Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Counterfieting The Mormon Concept of GOD Again, will it never end ?, Perhaps one can link to Richard Hopkins Article -"Counterfieting The Mormon Concept Of God" from F.A.R.M.S In His Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited January 8, 2015 by Anakin7
Canadaigua Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 The LDS do not believe in three limited, finite deities among an uncounted multitude of deities, all of whom merely reshaped small parts of a preexisting cosmos. What part did they get wrong exactly?
JLHPROF Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 What part did they get wrong exactly? three limited, finite deities - semantics among an uncounted multitude of deities - semantics all of whom merely reshaped small parts of a preexisting cosmos. -semantics These definitions are both true and false depending on context and definition of each phrase.As a Mormon I can truly say I both believe these and don't believe these. 1
Canadaigua Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 three limited, finite deities - semantics among an uncounted multitude of deities - semantics all of whom merely reshaped small parts of a preexisting cosmos. -semantics These definitions are both true and false depending on context and definition of each phrase.As a Mormon I can truly say I both believe these and don't believe these.And I agree with you. There is certainly LDS literature to support "finite deities". Joseph Smith taught in the King Follette sermon that God has not always been god--and this sermon was printed in the official LDS magazine Ensign. There are references also for the other points but I am sure most LDS are aware of these. A major problem with Mormonism is that there is a lot of conflicting teachings depending on the source.
ERayR Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 And I agree with you. There is certainly LDS literature to support "finite deities". Joseph Smith taught in the King Follette sermon that God has not always been god--and this sermon was printed in the official LDS magazine Ensign. There are references also for the other points but I am sure most LDS are aware of these. A major problem with Mormonism is that there is a lot of conflicting teachings depending on the source. Yes there is.
Anakin7 Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) It is not very "Christian" to accuse/bear false witness/counterfeit the True LDS Form /Model of GOD. From my LDS Kryptonian Jedi Knight Archive - http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/review/?vol=12&num=1&id=339 In His Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited January 8, 2015 by Anakin7
Ahab Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 A major problem with Mormonism is that there is a lot of conflicting teachings depending on the source.And a major problem with Christianity in general is that there are a lot of conflicting teachings depending on the source, too! 2
Canadaigua Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 And a major problem with Christianity in general is that there are a lot of conflicting teachings depending on the source, too!The source for Christian beliefs is the Bible. Can you give me some examples?
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