Animal Sacrifice Restored

CV75 · January 5, 2015

But what is your point then?

That you must have priesthood keys to be a legitimate "restoring entity" or not?

I took from your statement the possibility of other keys (and from this question, the keys of restoring things and being a “restoring entity”) assigned to Tribes that have not yet been made manifest to the world or incorporated into the Church. This made me think of the Handbook, which identifies who can hold the keys. On the one hand, the Handbook is limited in jurisdiction to the LDS Church which would open up the possibility for other tribes’ books to show how they possess and use keys within their jurisdictions that could eventually be exercised in behalf of all (or not); but on the other hand, the same Handbook says that the kingdom of God on earth is the Church and that our senior living Apostle is the only one on earth authorized to exercise all priesthood keys, which precludes that possibility and allowing only one restoring entity at a time (I refer to the Handbook, but it refers to the scriptures). Just thinking out loud.

CV75 · January 5, 2015

I don't know the vehicle by which the Jewish end of things will come to a head, though it is clear that there are no cooperative ventures with the LDS in that arena now. There may be some discrete action by the LDS Brethren, just as Joseph did in sending Orson Hyde to Palestine to begin the final gathering of the Jews, something which escaped notice by the Jews themselves (Theodor Herzl and Chaim Weizmann were undoubtedly unaware), until more modern times. Keys? Don't know, and doubt that the Jews are interested in any way. Mormons have a very hard time imagining that any authentic religious events can take place outside their bailiwick, and the Jews are not religious ingenues.

Could Apostle Hyde's words as one called to make that dedication of the Holy Land be construed as authority or keys? He said, in part, "to dedicate and consecrate this land unto Thee, for the gathering together of Judah's scattered remnants, according to the predictions of the holy Prophets -- for the building up of Jerusalem again after it has been trodden down by the Gentiles so long, and for rearing a Temple in honor of Thy name." Elder Hyde also states in his account that, as had been prophesied, he performed some rite with his rod on the Temple Mount itself (anyone know what he did?).*. Roberts, ed., History of the Church, IV:456, online at http://www.nyx.net/~cgibbons/orson_hyde_prayer.html .

The Mormons represent themselves as part of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, the Jews the Southern Kingdom. We need to accept the current bifurcation with good grace. Just let God be true. We are sure to find out how it all works out in the end. This is the Latter Days. It is happening now.

* Brigham Young determined the proper location for the Salt Lake Temple by using Oliver Cowdery's rod, on July 28, 1847 (Wilford Woodruff was present).

This is an example of the keys (in this case, of gathering) having been restored to the Church and oversight by the Prophet. I had taken your earlier remarks to allow for keys being restored through other agencies--seemed you believed that they could be.

mfbukowski · January 5, 2015

I took from your statement the possibility of other keys (and from this question, the keys of restoring things and being a “restoring entity”) assigned to Tribes that have not yet been made manifest to the world or incorporated into the Church. This made me think of the Handbook, which identifies who can hold the keys. On the one hand, the Handbook is limited in jurisdiction to the LDS Church which would open up the possibility for other tribes’ books to show how they possess and use keys within their jurisdictions that could eventually be exercised in behalf of all (or not); but on the other hand, the same Handbook says that the kingdom of God on earth is the Church and that our senior living Apostle is the only one on earth authorized to exercise all priesthood keys, which precludes that possibility and allowing only one restoring entity at a time (I refer to the Handbook, but it refers to the scriptures). Just thinking out loud.

Well the Handbook has been known to change-

all it is, is a statement of policies on how to handle issues. It is revised on a regular basis as needed.

“They who are in the north countries shll come in remembrance before the Lord; and their prophets shall hear his voice, and shall no longer stay themselves; and they shall smite the rocks, and the ice shall flow down at their presence.
“And an highway shall be cast up in the midst of the great deep. …
“And they shall bring forth their rich treasures unto the children of Ephraim, my servants.
“And the boundaries of the everlasting hills shall tremble at their presence.
“And there shall they fall down and be crowned with glory, even in Zion, by the hands of the servants of the Lord, even the children of Ephraim.
“And they shall be filled with songs of everlasting joy.” (D&C 133:26–33.)
In the last days, then, the Other Tribes are to come to Zion, “upon the American continent,” there to receive blessings from Ephraim. The keys of the “gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north” were committed to the Prophet Joseph Smith by Moses on 3 April 1836 in the Kirtland Temple. Since Ephraim itself was one of the Other Tribes lost to Jewish and Christian history, we see that the promised restoration has already begun. In fact, we have been blessed to identify many from another tribe, Manasseh. This identification of tribal lineage is made under the hands of inspired patriarchs in the normal spiritual processes incident to the functions of the priesthood.
As we look toward our common future, we see that, as foretold, the great gathering, or restoration, of all the peoples of Israel who have spread themselves throughout the world will be accomplished and distinct remnants of all of the tribal units of Israel will at last be united again in fellowship under Christ. All tribes are to have representation in the establishment of the New Jerusalem. All tribes will have representatives in the calling of the “hundred and forty and four thousand” mentioned in John’s revelation, twelve thousand out of every tribe of Israel. (Rev. 7:2–8.) These are “high priests, ordained unto the holy order of God, to administer the everlasting gospel; for they are they who are ordained out of every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, by the angels to whom is given power over the nations of the earth, to bring as many as will come to the church of the Firstborn.” (D&C 77:11.) Thus, a great work awaits representatives of each tribe as they continue to preach the gospel throughout the world to all mankind. Ultimately, in righteousness the Other Tribes of Israel will be prepared to return to Jerusalem, to receive with Judah the lands of their first inheritance. (See Deut. 30:1–5.)

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1982/01/israels-other-tribes?lang=eng

I think this will require a Handbook revision or two when angels are doing the ordinations.

Edited January 5, 2015 by mfbukowski

teddyaware · January 5, 2015

I agree, you could be completely right, and that is the end of the story.. But there is even another dimension to all this.

Notice D&C mentions the "Sons of Levi" making the sacrifice, so we automatically assume that means members of the church who are at least Aaronic priesthood holders.

Suppose these sons of Levi were literal sons of Levi who are not church members, but Jewish, who offer the sacrifice in a new temple not yet constructed, in Israel?

If we make this assumption, and further assume that references in Doctrines of Salvation misinterpreted the scripture just as has virtually everyone else, the entire problem disappears.

The sons of Levi make the sacrifice, which is one of the signs of the times, just as was the restoration of Israel as a nation. We had nothing to do with the restoration of Israel, why should we assume we have to be the ones making the sacrifices?

Or on the other hand, we could be both right and it will be fulfilled in two different ways

I, too, am open minded on this subject. Mormonism is filled with too many surprises to be hasty in jumping to conclusions. But since both you and I are open minded on this matter, let us reason together. Bear with me and you'll come to see I'm going to cover some new territory and the reasons why I believe it's likely that Joseph Fielding Smith misunderstood the prophet Joseph Smith's statement on restored sacrifice.

1) In 3 Nephi, the voice of the Saviour spoke the following words of counsel and commandment to the Nephites:

18 I am the light and the life of the world. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.

19 And ye shall offer up unto me no more the shedding of blood; yea, your sacrifices and your burnt offerings shall be done away, for I will accept none of your sacrifices and your burnt offerings.

20 And ye shall offer for a sacrifice unto me a broken heart and a contrite spirit. And whoso cometh unto me with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, him will I baptize with fire and with the Holy Ghost, even as the Lamanites, because of their faith in me at the time of their conversion, were baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost, and they knew it not. (3 Nephi 9)

In light of the above perfectly clear and totally unambiguous declaration, the Saviour taught the Nephites that the days of blood sacrifice of animals had fully come to an end.

2) Also remember that in accord with His commandment to end blood sacrifice of animals, the Saviour also taught the Nephites that with His atonement and resurrection the law of Moses was fulfilled and had completely come to an end:

2 And it came to pass that when Jesus had said these words he perceived that there were some among them who marveled, and wondered what he would concerning the law of Moses; for they understood not the saying that old things had passed away, and that all things had become new.

3 And he said unto them: Marvel not that I said unto you that old things had passed away, and that all things had become new.

4 Behold, I say unto you that the law is fulfilled that was given unto Moses.

5 Behold, I am he that gave the law, and I am he who covenanted with my people Israel; therefore, the law in me is fulfilled, for I have come to fulfil the law; therefore it hath an end. (3 Nephi 15)

I'm wondering why the Lord would require more blood animal sacrifices of the Mosaic Law's Levites after His great and last blood sacrifice was fully accomplished?

Now remember that the animal sacrifices performed by the Aaronic Priesthood's Levites (the only blood lineage permitted and entrusted with that priesthood) were part and parcel of the law of Moses, a divinely ordained priesthood institution who's sacrificial temple work of animal sacrifice fully ended with the passing of the law of Moses, when the temple veil was rent at the moment of Christ's death. Therefore, is it not fully reasonable to believe that the sacrifice in righteousness of the sons of Levi, spoken of by the prophet Malachi, is a form of holy sacrifice that will not involve the shedding of the blood of animals, animal sacrifice being a practice the Saviour said he would no longer accept?

It needs to be understood that the Book of Mormon was written to both the Jews and Gentiles, and after reading the Book of Mormon it's hard to imagine how a Jew, including a Jew of the tribe of Levi, would think it correct that he should persist in the practice of blood animal sacrifices when such sacrifices are strictly forbidden in the Book of Mormon. And remember, the blood animal sacrifices of the Patriarchal Period were not performed by Levites because Levi, and his chosen lineage, were not yet born and functioning under Moses' law of carnal commandments and ordinances. So when the prophet Joseph Smith speaks of the restoration of the sacrificial rites performed by the Patriarchs (he never specifically says animal sacrifices), it's hard to believe he's speaking of the animal sacrifices performed by the Levites under the law of Moses. In connection with this last point, do you -- or anyone else here -- believe a restoration of the law of Moses will be a part of the restitution of all things? If so, the return of the law of Moses would be extremely perplexing, especially in light of the fact that the Lord, when speaking of the law of Moses, said "old things had passed away and all things had become new?"

Remember, also, that the Jews of today are still tied to the law of Moses, the Torah, and that any restoration of the ordinances of animal sacrifice would seemingly have to be performed by them under what they will think will be the egis of the law of Moses, something the Lord no longer recognizes (I see the apostle Paul turning in his grave).

There's much more to come of even greater import to this discussion, but I'll stop here for nowso that you can respond to my initial points...

Edited January 6, 2015 by teddyaware

CV75 · January 5, 2015

Well the Handbook has been known to change-

all it is, is a statement of policies on how to handle issues. It is revised on a regular basis as needed.
I think this will require a Handbook revision or two when angels are doing the ordinations.

Cool--at that point we get to the transition from the kingdom of God on earth to the Church of the Firstborn. It will be interesting to see how (or even if!) He delegates the keys at that point!

CV75 · January 5, 2015

I'm wondering why the Lord would require more blood animal sacrifices of the Mosaic Law's Levites after His great and last blood sacrifice was fully accomplished?

Maybe not of them, but perhaps of the latter-day sons of Levi who we are such by virtue of D&C 84:33.

There may be some other significance to an ordinance of animal sacrifice, such as a memorial for the abomination of desolation in the last days (just brainstorming!) by killing and/or burning the “flesh” of Jerusalem under siege (or the “flesh” of other latter-day judgments) in token of being protected from the evils contributing to these awful signs or judgments, or from the desolation itself. This could also serve as a cultural bridge of understanding for the converted Jews. Of course the Word of Wisdom does that for us, so maybe eating sacrificed flesh will be incorporated into that!

teddyaware · January 5, 2015

Maybe not of them, but perhaps of the latter-day sons of Levi who we are such by virtue of D&C 84:33.

There may be some other significance to an ordinance of animal sacrifice, such as a memorial for the abomination of desolation in the last days (just brainstorming!) by killing and/or burning the “flesh” of Jerusalem under siege (or the “flesh” of other latter-day judgments) in token of being protected from the evils contributing to these awful signs or judgments, or from the desolation itself. This could also serve as a cultural bridge of understanding for the converted Jews. Of course the Word of Wisdom does that for us, so maybe eating sacrificed flesh will be incorporated into that!

I'm planning on getting to your first point in my next post. As to your other speculations, I say they are possibilities. Like I said, I have an open mind on this subject. But one thing appears certain, it seems highly unlikely such an animal sacrifice would be carried out for the remission of sins, even if it is performed with full knowledge that it is in the similitude of the sacrifice of the Son of God. Like the Book of Mormon says, the sacrifice of the blood of Christ is the "great and last sacrifice" for sin.

Edited January 5, 2015 by teddyaware

Canadaigua · January 5, 2015

I agree, you could be completely right, and that is the end of the story.. But there is even another dimension to all this.

Notice D&C mentions the "Sons of Levi" making the sacrifice, so we automatically assume that means members of the church who are at least Aaronic priesthood holders.

Suppose these sons of Levi were literal sons of Levi who are not church members, but Jewish, who offer the sacrifice in a new temple not yet constructed, in Israel?

The only problem with this theory is that you have non-LDS RESTORING ordinances.

Vance · January 5, 2015

"Sons of Levi" are inheritors of the Levitical Priesthood by birthright. They do not need to be associated with the LDS church in any way.
Then priesthood authority was never lost from the earth during the "apostasy". Is that what you believe?

False conclusion based on a faulty premise. I would explain it to you but it is obvious that you aren't interesting in understanding the issues. So I won't waste my time.

Any "son of Levi" that is a member of the Church would be a member because they accept the validity of the final blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ. They would have ZERO interest in preforming ANY more blood sacrifices.

Why did your prophet/leaders/official publications teach that animal sacrifice WILL be RESTORED?

I would explain it to you but it is obvious that you aren't interesting in understanding the issues. So I won't wast my time.

It is rather obvious then, that any further animal/blood sacrifice would be,
1) unassociated with the LDS Church.
2) preformed by a non-Christian/non-LDS "son of Levi".
Can non-LDS (i.e. those who do not have proper authority) RESTORE ordinances?

I would explain it to you but it is obvious that you aren't interesting in understanding the issues. So I won't wast my time.

Robert F. Smith · January 6, 2015

...........................................................................
Remember, also, that the Jews of today are still tied to the law of Moses, the Torah, and that any restoration of the ordinances of animal sacrifice would seemingly have to be performed by them under what they will think will be the egis of the law of Moses, something the Lord no longer recognizes (I see the apostle Paul turning in his grave).

....................................................................

Maybe not of them, but perhaps of the latter-day sons of Levi who we are such by virtue of D&C 84:33.

There may be some other significance to an ordinance of animal sacrifice, such as a memorial for the abomination of desolation in the last days (just brainstorming!) by killing and/or burning the “flesh” of Jerusalem under siege (or the “flesh” of other latter-day judgments) in token of being protected from the evils contributing to these awful signs or judgments, or from the desolation itself. This could also serve as a cultural bridge of understanding for the converted Jews. Of course the Word of Wisdom does that for us, so maybe eating sacrificed flesh will be incorporated into that!

Yes, and both of you have stated your obvious position well enough already, and I am even sympathetic, but this beating of a dead horse still doesn't address the strong likelihood that the Jews will build their Temple in Jerusalem (in accord with the formal declaration of Apostle Hyde), and that they will be offering animal and other sacrifices there. We can eschatologically hem and haw till the red heifers come home, but it's gonna happen. What then? Does God reject it? Or is something more subtle going to take place? :beatdeadhorse:

mfbukowski · January 6, 2015

I, too, am open minded on this subject. Mormonism is filled with too many surprises to be hasty in jumping to conclusions. But since both you and I are open minded on this matter, let us reason together. Bear with me and you'll come to see I'm going to cover some new territory and the reasons why I believe it's likely that Joseph Fielding Smith misunderstood the prophet Joseph Smith's statement on restored sacrifice.

1) In 3 Nephi, the voice of the Saviour spoke the following words of counsel and commandment to the Nephites:

18 I am the light and the life of the world. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.
19 And ye shall offer up unto me no more the shedding of blood; yea, your sacrifices and your burnt offerings shall be done away, for I will accept none of your sacrifices and your burnt offerings.
20 And ye shall offer for a sacrifice unto me a broken heart and a contrite spirit. And whoso cometh unto me with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, him will I baptize with fire and with the Holy Ghost, even as the Lamanites, because of their faith in me at the time of their conversion, were baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost, and they knew it not. (3 Nephi 9)

In light of the above perfectly clear and totally unambiguous declaration, the Saviour taught the Nephites that the days of blood sacrifice of animals had fully come to an end.

2) Also remember that in accord with His commandment to end blood sacrifice of animals, the Saviour also taught the Nephites that with His atonement and resurrection the law of Moses was fulfilled and had completely come to an end:

2 And it came to pass that when Jesus had said these words he perceived that there were some among them who marveled, and wondered what he would concerning the law of Moses; for they understood not the saying that old things had passed away, and that all things had become new.
3 And he said unto them: Marvel not that I said unto you that old things had passed away, and that all things had become new.
4 Behold, I say unto you that the law is fulfilled that was given unto Moses.
5 Behold, I am he that gave the law, and I am he who covenanted with my people Israel; therefore, the law in me is fulfilled, for I have come to fulfil the law; therefore it hath an end. (3 Nephi 15)

I'm wondering why the Lord would require more blood animal sacrifices of the Mosaic Law's Levites after His great and last blood sacrifice was fully accomplished?

Now remember that the animal sacrifices performed by the Aaronic Priesthood's Levites (the only blood lineage permitted and entrusted with that priesthood) were part and parcel of the law of Moses, a divinely ordained priesthood institution who's sacrificial temple work of animal sacrifice fully ended with the passing of the law of Moses, when the temple veil was rent at the moment of Christ's death. Therefore, is it not fully reasonable to believe that the sacrifice in righteousness of the sons of Levi, spoken of by the prophet Malachi, is a form of holy sacrifice that will not involve the shedding of the blood of animals, animal sacrifice being a practice the Saviour said he would no longer accept?

It needs to be understood that the Book of Mormon was written to both the Jews and Gentiles, and after reading the Book of Mormon it's hard to imagine how a Jew, including a Jew of the tribe of Levi, would think it correct that he should persist in the practice of blood animal sacrifices when such sacrifices are strictly forbidden in the Book of Mormon. And remember, the blood animal sacrifices of the Patriarchal Period were not performed by Levites because Levi, and his chosen lineage, were not yet born and functioning under Moses' law of carnal commandments and ordinances. So when the prophet Joseph Smith speaks of the restoration of the sacrificial rites performed by the Patriarchs (he never specifically says animal sacrifices), it's hard to believe he's speaking of the animal sacrifices performed by the Levites under the law of Moses. In connection with this last point, do you -- or anyone else here -- believe a restoration of the law of Moses will be a part of the restitution of all things? If so, the return of the law of Moses would be extremely perplexing, especially in light of the fact that the Lord, when speaking of the law of Moses, said "old things had passed away and all things had become new?"

Remember, also, that the Jews of today are still tied to the law of Moses, the Torah, and that any restoration of the ordinances of animal sacrifice would seemingly have to be performed by them under what they will think will be the egis of the law of Moses, something the Lord no longer recognizes (I see the apostle Paul turning in his grave).

There's much more to come of even greater import to this discussion, but I'll stop here for nowso that you can respond to my initial points...

Well yes, I agree, but I don't have much response- that's the way I see it too! I think probably Joseph Fielding Smith just got it wrong. It happens.

mfbukowski · January 6, 2015

The only problem with this theory is that you have non-LDS RESTORING ordinances.

So what? Did you even read the posts? That is what we were talking about. Try to keep up- if you are going to ask questions- learn to read the answers.

mfbukowski · January 6, 2015

Yes, and both of you have stated your obvious position well enough already, and I am even sympathetic, but this beating of a dead horse still doesn't address the strong likelihood that the Jews will build their Temple in Jerusalem (in accord with the formal declaration of Apostle Hyde), and that they will be offering animal and other sacrifices there. We can eschatologically hem and haw till the red heifers come home, but it's gonna happen. What then? Does God reject it? Or is something more subtle going to take place?

Yep that's how I see it too.

teddyaware · January 6, 2015

Yes, and both of you have stated your obvious position well enough already, and I am even sympathetic, but this beating of a dead horse still doesn't address the strong likelihood that the Jews will build their Temple in Jerusalem (in accord with the formal declaration of Apostle Hyde), and that they will be offering animal and other sacrifices there. We can eschatologically hem and haw till the red heifers come home, but it's gonna happen. What then? Does God reject it? Or is something more subtle going to take place?

I must say that when I laid eyes on the above image of the dead horse (with swarming flies, no less) being beaten -- by Yours Truly, I presume -- I was deeply insulted and found myself slithering off to my room, and to my secret stash of Christmas goodies, to fetch a handful of salted caramel dark chocolates as form of self-medication to soothe my traumatized spirits.

Here are some quotes from the scriptures and past general authorities that might serve to disabuse you of the notion that the Jerusalem Temple will be anything but an official temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, where the ordinances will be the same as in all the other temples and where it's unlikely animal sacrifices will be performed:

36 "For it is ordained that in Zion, and in her stakes, and in Jerusalem, those places which I have appointed for refuge, shall be the places for your baptisms for your dead.

37 And again, verily I say unto you, how shall your washings be acceptable unto me, except ye perform them in a house which you have built to my name.)" (D&C 124)

"What was the object of gathering the Jews, or the people of God in any age of the world? ...The main object was to build unto the Lord a house whereby He could reveal unto His people the ordinances of His house." (Joseph Smith)

"By and by there will be a Temple built at Jerusalem. Who do you think is going to build it? You may think that it will be the unbelieving Jews who rejected the Savior. I believe that that which is contained (in) the Book of Mormon (2 Nephi 8:4-17), as well as in many other places, in that same book, will be literally fulfilled. The Temple at Jerusalem will undoubtedly be built, by those who believe in the true Messiah. Its construction will be, in some respects different from the Temples now being built. It will contain the throne of the Lord, upon which he will, at times, personally sit, and will reign over the house of Israel for ever." (Orson Pratt)

"After the Jews have repented and received the Gospel, having ackowledged Jesus Christ as their Redeemer, the temple in Jerusalem will be built according to the prophecy in Ezekiel." (Joseph F. Smith)

"Who are those 'that are far off' who shall come to Jerusalem to build the house of the Lord? Surely they are the Jews who have been scattered afar. By what power and under whose authorization shall the work be done? There is only one place under the whole heavens where the keys of temple building are found. There is only one people who know how to build temples and what to do in them when they are completed. That people is the Latter-day Saints. The temple in Jerusalem will not be built by Jews who have assembled there for political purposes as at present. It will not be built by a people who know nothing whatever about the sealing ordinances and their application to the living and the dead. It will not be built by those who know nothing about Christ and his laws and the mysteries reserved for the saints. But it will be built by Jews who have come unto Christ, who once again are in the true fold of their ancient Shepherd, and who have learned anew about temples because they know that Elijah did come, not to sit in a vacant chair at some Jewish feast of the Passover, but to the Kirtland Temple on April 3, 1836, to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. The temple in Jerusalem will be built by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. 'They that are far off,' they that come from an American Zion, they who have a temple in Salt Lake City will come to Jerusalem to build there another holy house in the Jerusalem portion of 'the mountains of the Lord's house" (Bruce R McConkie)

Edited January 6, 2015 by teddyaware

Canadaigua · January 6, 2015

Canadaigua
The only problem with this theory is that you have non-LDS RESTORING ordinances.

So what? . . .

This is a big issue since Mormonism claims to have the "authority" to restore ordinances. But you then say "say what?

mfbukowski · January 6, 2015

This is a big issue since Mormonism claims to have the "authority" to restore ordinances. But you then say "say what?

DID YOU EVEN READ THE OTHER POSTS???

We have been discussing this through most of the thread......

This has already been answered. See if you can find the answer.

Edited January 6, 2015 by mfbukowski

mfbukowski · January 6, 2015

I must say that when I laid eyes on the above image of the dead horse (with swarming flies, no less) being beaten -- by Yours Truly, I presume -- I was deeply insulted and found myself slithering off to my room, and to my secret stash of Christmas goodies, to fetch a handful of salted caramel dark chocolates as form of self-medication to soothe my traumatized spirits.

Here are some quotes from the scriptures and past general authorities that might serve to disabuse you of the notion that the Jerusalem Temple will be anything but an official temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, where the ordinances will be the same as in all the other temples and where it's unlikely animal sacrifices will be performed:

36 "For it is ordained that in Zion, and in her stakes, and in Jerusalem, those places which I have appointed for refuge, shall be the places for your baptisms for your dead.
37 And again, verily I say unto you, how shall your washings be acceptable unto me, except ye perform them in a house which you have built to my name.)" (D&C 124)

"What was the object of gathering the Jews, or the people of God in any age of the world? ...The main object was to build unto the Lord a house whereby He could reveal unto His people the ordinances of His house." (Joseph Smith)

"By and by there will be a Temple built at Jerusalem. Who do you think is going to build it? You may think that it will be the unbelieving Jews who rejected the Savior. I believe that that which is contained (in) the Book of Mormon (2 Nephi 8:4-17), as well as in many other places, in that same book, will be literally fulfilled. The Temple at Jerusalem will undoubtedly be built, by those who believe in the true Messiah. Its construction will be, in some respects different from the Temples now being built. It will contain the throne of the Lord, upon which he will, at times, personally sit, and will reign over the house of Israel for ever." (Orson Pratt)

"After the Jews have repented and received the Gospel, having ackowledged Jesus Christ as their Redeemer, the temple in Jerusalem will be built according to the prophecy in Ezekiel." (Joseph F. Smith)

"Who are those 'that are far off' who shall come to Jerusalem to build the house of the Lord? Surely they are the Jews who have been scattered afar. By what power and under whose authorization shall the work be done? There is only one place under the whole heavens where the keys of temple building are found. There is only one people who know how to build temples and what to do in them when they are completed. That people is the Latter-day Saints. The temple in Jerusalem will not be built by Jews who have assembled there for political purposes as at present. It will not be built by a people who know nothing whatever about the sealing ordinances and their application to the living and the dead. It will not be built by those who know nothing about Christ and his laws and the mysteries reserved for the saints. But it will be built by Jews who have come unto Christ, who once again are in the true fold of their ancient Shepherd, and who have learned anew about temples because they know that Elijah did come, not to sit in a vacant chair at some Jewish feast of the Passover, but to the Kirtland Temple on April 3, 1836, to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. The temple in Jerusalem will be built by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. 'They that are far off,' they that come from an American Zion, they who have a temple in Salt Lake City will come to Jerusalem to build there another holy house in the Jerusalem portion of 'the mountains of the Lord's house" (Bruce R McConkie)

Two temples, one Jewish, one LDS solves the mystery and makes everyone happy.

Canadaigua · January 6, 2015

DID YOU EVEN READ THE OTHER POSTS???

We have been discussing this through most of the thread......

Are you talking about the posts where you said that you didn't believe that animal sacrifices are ordinaces? I certainly saw that one.

Or were you referring to the post where you said that ordinances require proper priesthood authority (i.e. LDS church authority)? I also saw that one as well.

The following is from LDS.org-->Teachings-->Gospel Topics-->Ordinances

In the Church, an ordinance is a sacred, formal act performed by the authority of the priesthood. Some ordinances are essential to our exaltation. These ordinances are called saving ordinances. They include baptism, confirmation, ordination to the Melchizedek Priesthood (for men), the temple endowment, and the marriage sealing. With each of these ordinances, we enter into solemn covenants with the Lord.

If one is to use the definition provided above from the LDS.org website then animal sacrifices would certainly be considered an ordinance. Agree?

Edited January 6, 2015 by Canadaigua

Flyonthewall · January 6, 2015

Just a quick show of hands - how many LDS have had a lesson in Sunday School, Priesthood, or elsewhere concerning the restoration of animal sacrifice?

I never have.

It has been brought up more on this board by Canadaigua than in the last 50 years or so that I have been present for any lessons.

Canadaigua · January 6, 2015

Just a quick show of hands - how many LDS have had a lesson in Sunday School, Priesthood, or elsewhere concerning the restoration of animal sacrifice?
I never have.
It has been brought up more on this board by Canadaigua than in the last 50 years or so that I have been present for any lessons.

I have brought it up because it is an interesting and unique topic in Mormonism.

If you saw my post (#110) you would know that it is taught in an official LDS teaching manual

LDS.ORG—>Resources—>General—>Magazines and Manuals—>All Manuals—>Institute— >Doctrine and Covenants (Student Manual)—>Section 13—>D and C 13:1

Flyonthewall · January 6, 2015

I have brought it up because it is an interesting and unique topic in Mormonism.

If you saw my post (#110) you would know that it is taught in an official LDS teaching manual
LDS.ORG—>Resources—>General—>Magazines and Manuals—>All Manuals—>Institute— >Doctrine and Covenants (Student Manual)—>Section 13—>D and C 13:1

And as you can tell from this thread, it is not a teaching that we have much detail about. It is something that will happen in the future, whether literal or figurative has not been clarified.

The scripture referred to does not specify animal sacrifice but an offering in righteousness...and there are other scriptures that state the offering of shedding blood would no longer be accepted.

teddyaware · January 6, 2015

Two temples, one Jewish, one LDS solves the mystery and makes everyone happy.

If the Jews do build a temple without revelation and authority from God, and without that temple's central focus being Jesus Christ and His great and last atoning sacrifice, it's seems obvious the animal sacrifices that take place there will be no more acceptable, binding or authoritative than were the animal sacrifices that took place in the second Jerusalem Temple after Christ's ascension into heaven. Doctrine and Covenants makes it plain that the offering in righteous of the sons of Levi will pertain to temple work and the submissal of a book of the genealogical records of their ancestors and the temple work done for them. And so we read:

24 Behold, the great day of the Lord is at hand; and who canabide the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appeareth? For he is like a refiner’s fire, and like fuller’s soap; and he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness. Let us, therefore, as a church and a people, and as Latter-day Saints, offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness; and let us present in his holy temple, when it is finished, a book containing the records of our dead, which shall be worthy of all acceptation. (D&C 128)

In light of the above:

1) How can the sons of Levi be washed in fullers soap, purified and refined (receive forgiveness and obtain sanctification) unless it be through faith in Jesus Christ, baptism by the proper authority and the gift of the Holy Ghost?

2) Do you believe the mentioned offering in righteousness the Latter-day Saints are commanded of the Lord to perform Lord are animal sacrifices? If not, why not? (after all, the same commandment of "an offering in righteousness" is given to both the sons of Levi and the Latter-day Saints, and the commandment to make that offering in righteousness is expected of both groups without any clarification on the prophet's part that the the commanded offerings are different in focus and nature)

The Jew's offering in righteousness will only be possible after the following prophecy is of the Saviour is fulfilled:

29 And I will remember the covenant which I have made with my people; and I have covenanted with them that I would gather them together in mine own due time, that I would give unto them again the land of their fathers for their inheritance, which is the land of Jerusalem, which is the promised land unto them forever, saith the Father.

30 And it shall come to pass that the time cometh, when the fulness of my gospel shall be preached unto them;

31 And they shall believe in me, that I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and shall pray unto the Father in my name.

32 Then shall their watchmen lift up their voice, and with the voice together shall they sing; for they shall see eye to eye.

33 Then will the Father gather them together again, and give unto them Jerusalem for the land of their inheritance." (3 Nephi 20)

Edited January 6, 2015 by teddyaware

mfbukowski · January 6, 2015

If one is to use the definition provided above from the LDS.org website then animal sacrifices would certainly be considered an ordinance. Agree?

Are you talking about the posts where you said that you didn't believe that animal sacrifices are ordinaces?

OK let's take this slow.

Clearly from your own quote, I do not agree. Read the previous posts and try to figure it out. I have already answered all your questions.

mfbukowski · January 6, 2015

If the Jews do build a temple without revelation and authority from God, and without that temple's central focus being Jesus Christ and His great and last atoning sacrifice, it's seems obvious the animal sacrifices that take place there will be no more acceptable, binding or authoritative than were the animal sacrifices that took place in the second Jerusalem Temple after Christ's ascension into heaven. Doctrine and Covenants makes it plain that the offering in righteous of the sons of Levi will pertain to temple work and the submissal of a book of the genealogical records of their ancestors and the temple work done for them. And so we read:

24

Behold, the great day of the Lord is at hand; and who canabide the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appeareth? For he is like a refiner’s fire, and like fuller’s soap; and he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness. Let us, therefore, as a church and a people, and as Latter-day Saints, offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness; and let us present in his holy temple, when it is finished, a book containing the records of our dead, which shall be worthy of all acceptation. (D&C 128)