Animal Sacrifice Restored

[Robert F. Smith]

Canadaigua,

 

It appears I defended my Mormon friends from something I thought rather absurd, which on the contrary, they accept. I have been here since 2004 and other LDS sites before this one. This one is new on me. I didn't know.

Some Mormon theological principles, such as polygamy, are currently in abeyance or not in effect,  Some are unknown among most members of the Church.

 

I am sorry to say that there are a few Catholic bishops, of whom one is probably the pope, who favor this idea that Jews can reject Christ and be saved under the Mosaic Law. For anyone who believes this, I wonder how it would work for the offspring of two Gentiles who converted to Judaism a thousand years ago. My question now is about whether the covenant spoken of is ethnic in nature, or about religious affiliation. Could any of us who should convert to Judaism qualify for this privilege, even if we hadn't a drop of Jewish blood in our veins?

Levites tend to be endogamous.  When they do marry outside the tribe, in order to retain lineal tribal affiliation, they can only marry a Jew (Judahite) who is not a convert, and who has been Jewish for seven generations minimum.  Moreover, Levitical priesthood is only transmitted from father to son.  This patrilineal rule differs completely from the establishment of Jewishness based on matrilineal descent.

 

Jews cannot, of course, reject Christ and be saved.  We are in an interim period just now, in which the Jews (as St. Paul points out in his letter to the Romans) remain outside the Christian faith.  But the first shall be the last, and the last shall be the first.  The times of the Gentiles is rapidly coming to an end.

Romans 11:

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

..........................................   

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Edited December 20, 2014 by Robert F. Smith

[Canadaigua]

 

In a future Jewish temple, yes.  Even Jesus recognized the authority of the High Priest Caiaphas in Jerusalem, even though that Priest specifically rejected Jesus as Christ during his interrogation:

 

While Christ was alive they were still under the law.  Or is this something that you do not believe?

[Robert F. Smith]

While Christ was alive they were still under the law.  ............................................................

The Jews did not cease to exist with the death of Jesus, nor in their long Galut (Diaspora).  The Gentiles are very selective in which parts of Scripture they will own up to, but their time is coming to an end, and they will be faced (are already faced) with the disquieting prospect that the Jews have returned with full force.  What will you do on that frabjous day in which all Israel has gathered and the end has come with a thunderclap?  Will you still be discussing the passé Law of Moses?

[Robert F. Smith]

Yes to the extent of that authority if you leave out the part about denying Christ and having never been baptized and the part about not receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.  Other than that you are pretty accurate.  That authority is, however, the authority of the Aaronic priesthood and is under the direction of the Melchizedek priesthod. .

Yes, but that only applies to LDS practice and doctrine.  Not the Jews.  However, even though each is mostly unaware of the other (and oblivious), there is a kind of synchronicity to those Jewish and LDS events and practices, which will eventually run in simultaneous and reciprocal order.

[intra]

 

In a future Jewish temple, yes.  Even Jesus recognized the authority of the High Priest Caiaphas in Jerusalem

being dragged before the Sanhedrin and 'holding His peace' rather than answer their interrogations is hardly what i would call "recognizing the authority of the high priest" -- but this isn't something that i think human contention will resolve. 

what do you make of this? 

 

Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

(John 4:21-24) 

before He gave Himself over to become our atonement, He said "the hour comes and now is" when acceptable worship should be changed, and He said the Father's true worshipers will worship neither on one mountain or another, but in spirit and truth. 

what does this mean? is it an exchange of one physical temple for another? i think not! 

[intra]

The restored sacrifices the Prophet Joseph Smith was speaking of are the "living sacrifices" mentioned by the Apostle Paul.

those "living sacrifices" that Paul spoke of are ourselves.

what priest offers you up? what priest offers me up on the altar? 

does a Mormon bishop do this? 

i perceive that i make myself an offering; this is how Paul spoke - and so i am His priest and have no need of any other earthly priest. 

myself being able to enter the holy place only by abiding in Him, through His death and resurrection, my sacrifice is in the hands of none other than my eternal high priest Jesus Christ. 

[intra]

Jesus received worship at His feet while He walked with us, and this not at the temple in Jerusalem. 

from this we ought to know that even if the sacrifices at the temple were acceptable to God, the time when only temple ordinances were approved had already come to an end before He went to the cross. 

[Vance]

No he was speaking about animal sacrifices.

Really???

 

Then why is the phrase "animal sacrifice" never used??????

 

http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/search?search=%22animal+sacrifice%22&do=Search&anonymous_element_1_changed=search

 

You are presenting this in a typical anti-Mormon fashion.  First you tell us what a statement/scripture MUST mean (even though it doesn't say what you claim) and then you complain about the meaning you have given it.

 

Just the same old anti-Mormon crap if you ask me.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Vance

[Vance]

Canadaigua, do you believe that the sacrifices performed in the temple at the time of Christ (and after his death for the short time they continued) were invalid because those performing them did not believe Christ was the Messiah or lacked baptism or anything else?

He is not here to have a discussion or answer questions no matter how direct.

 

He has demonstrated himself to be a troll and nothing more.

[Vance]

Interestingly, there is another interpretation to that passage, just looking at it as a statement in itself.

What THAT statement implies is that the sons of Levi will make the offering, and after that, at an unspecified time, the Aaronic Priesthood will be removed from the earth.

 

We assume that the "sons of Levi" will be holders of the Aaronic Priesthood but that is not what it says.  Suppose some now Jewish Cohens make the offering- they would be "sons of Levi" making the sacrifice.  So would it "count" if a Jewish group of Cohens offered the sacrifice?  Isn't that in fact in the works?

 

I do not pretend to be a scriptorian on this issue- I just am offering an alternate interpretation of that one scripture.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korban#Future_of_sacrifices_in_Judaism

Silly you MFB!

 

Don't you know that things LDS can ONLY mean what our anti-Mormon critics say they mean??

[Vance]

So belief in Christ, baptism, the gift of the Holy Ghost are not a requirement for a person to have authority from God?

DUH!

 

The priesthood had to be restored FIRST before it could be used to preform those ordinances.

 

DUH!

Edited December 20, 2014 by Vance

[Vance]

Now that I have answered your questions perhaps you could tell us about animal sacrifice and when LDS plan on starting up this OT ordinance?

Perhaps you could provide an authoritative LDS source that uses the phrase "animal sacrifice" in it.

 

So far all you have provided is statements of OPINION on the subject.

[intra]

 

The priesthood had to be restored FIRST before it could be used to preform those ordinances.

 

"restored" ?? 

at what point did Christ Jesus have His priesthood removed, that it should be "restored" ?? 

Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; 

Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

(Hebrews 6:19-20) 

[pogi]

"restored" ?? 

at what point did Christ Jesus have His priesthood removed, that it should be "restored" ?? 

Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; 

Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

(Hebrews 6:19-20) 

 

To man silly!

[Vance]

being dragged before the Sanhedrin and 'holding His peace' rather than answer their interrogations is hardly what i would call "recognizing the authority of the high priest" -- but this isn't something that i think human contention will resolve. 

what do you make of this? 

 

Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

(John 4:21-24) 

before He gave Himself over to become our atonement, He said "the hour comes and now is" when acceptable worship should be changed, and He said the Father's true worshipers will worship neither on one mountain or another, but in spirit and truth. 

what does this mean? is it an exchange of one physical temple for another? i think not! 

Sorry but!!!!

 

Neither this

believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain

nor this

nor yet at Jerusalem

preclude other mountains or other temples.

 

You are injecting something that is not there.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Vance

[Vance]

"restored" ?? 

at what point did Christ Jesus have His priesthood removed, that it should be "restored" ??

I never said that Jesus lost his priesthood.

[intra]

I never said that Jesus lost his priesthood.

what can be "restored" that was not lost? 

[Vance]

what can be "restored" that was not lost? 

Nothing.

 

In case you haven't noticed Jesus is not here.  Ordinances are preformed here.

 

Here is were the priesthood was lost, here is where it was restored.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Vance

[intra]

To man silly!

what do you mean "to man" ? 

is the priesthood of Christ of no effect "to man" ? 

And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

(Hebrews 7:15-17) 

He was not made priest 'after carnal commandment' -- but 'after the power of an endless life' 

are the LDS 'priests' today after carnal law taking the name of Melchisedec also 'having no beginning or end' and by the appointment of God Himself, not by oath, being made by the power of their endless life? 

is there anything an human priest does that Christ cannot? 

 

[intra]

Nothing.

 

In case you have noticed Jesus is not here.  Ordinances are preformed here.

 

Here is were the priesthood was lost, here is where it was restored.

maybe He is not with you, my friend, but He is with me eternally. 

what "ordinance" is necessary that Christ is unable to perform? 

[intra]

You are injecting something that is not there.

respectfully, i think if you take "neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem" and put it together with "His true worshipers will worship Him in spirit and in truth" 

and you come up with "only in official LDS temples" 

i am not the one injecting something that is not there.  

[pogi]

what do you mean "to man" ? 

 

I mean that Christ's priesthood was restored to man, not to Christ. 

 

Christ clearly ordained priests to perform priestly ordinances by the authority of the priesthood that Christ holds, such as baptism etc.  The same authority by which scripture was written.  What is a priest without the priesthood?

[Calm]

LDS do not only worship in temples, but we worship day and night wherever we are.

Edited December 21, 2014 by calmoriah

[Garden Girl]

I never said that Jesus lost his priesthood.

 

 

what can be "restored" that was not lost? 

 

Before Christ's ascension into heaven, he met with his apostles for 40 days... in which time he taught them, among other things, the ordinances of the gospel and conferred upon them priesthood authority to perform them... including the keys of sealing power (Matt. 16:19).  Subsequent to Christ's ascension the apostles were eventually all killed... and with their death the priesthood was lost...

But before their death, they went among the people teaching them... and in Acts 3 we read where Peter and John were teaching, and Peter preaches repentence... and about the restoration of all things preceding the Second Coming of the Savior... "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord... Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."

This restitution would include the fullness of the Gospel, the restoration of priesthood authority, true doctrine and ordinances... the culmination of this dispensation will occur when Christ brings down his kingdom in heaven to join his Church on earth so they can be united to establish his millenial reign. 

 

GG

Edited December 21, 2014 by Garden Girl

[Vance]

maybe He is not with you, my friend, but He is with me eternally. 

what "ordinance" is necessary that Christ is unable to perform? 

TOTALLY missing the point.Troll on.

 

Baptism, for one.