Canadaigua Posted December 21, 2014 Author Posted December 21, 2014 The Jews did not cease to exist with the death of Jesus, nor in their long Galut (Diaspora). The Gentiles are very selective in which parts of Scripture they will own up to, but their time is coming to an end, and they will be faced (are already faced) with the disquieting prospect that the Jews have returned with full force. What will you do on that frabjous day in which all Israel has gathered and the end has come with a thunderclap? Will you still be discussing the passé Law of Moses?So you don't believe that there was a total apostasy since you believe that the priesthood persisted? Is that what you believe?
Canadaigua Posted December 21, 2014 Author Posted December 21, 2014 Jewish priesthood is officially recognized by LDS theology" Do you believe that people who are not LDS, do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah, and have not even been baptized have the authority to restore an ordinance of God? Actually I never said that, You certainly like to repeat things though dont you? Jewish priesthood is officially recognized by LDS theology" Do you believe that people who are not LDS, do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah, and have not even been baptized have the authority to restore an ordinance of God? Actually I never said that, You certainly like to repeat things though dont you?I thought that you were following along with the discussion but perhaps that I was unclear. I will clarify it for you. Robert Smith (post 18)hey haven't backed away from anything on this matter. This is clearly a Jewish issue, not a Mormon one, and Jews are central to the Restoration. I take it that you understand that Jewish priesthood is officially recognized by LDS theology, and that Joseph Smith had Apostle Orson Hyde dedicate Palestine to the final gathering of the Jews in 1841 (Hyde's dedicatory prayer on Mount Olivet is available in English & Hebrew on a monument there). Most Mormons are wholly ignorant of the fact that the Jews are still the covenant people of God. See Article of Faith #10. Canadaigua responding to Robert Smith (post 25)You said "Jewish priesthood is officially recognized by LDS theology"So you believe that people who are not LDS, do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah, and have not even been baptized have the authority to restore an ordinance of God? mfbukowski responding to my post above (post 41)Was partaking of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil an "ordinance"?The fall enabled us to be able to reach exaltation- without it, we would be stuck in the Garden forever and not have the gift of choice. We would never sin, but on the other hand, goodness would have no merit. We would be spiritually stuck in neutral. Canadaigua responding to mfbukoski's post above (post 44)I wasn't speaking about the fall rather I was speaking about animal sacrifice.[below I restated what I was speaking about to Robert Smith (post 25)You said "Jewish priesthood is officially recognized by LDS theology" Do you believe that people who are not LDS, do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah, and have not even been baptized have the authority to restore an ordinance of God? BTW can you tell me what your post (41) has to do with animal sacrifice? Or we're you simply trying to change the subject?
Robert F. Smith Posted December 21, 2014 Posted December 21, 2014 So you don't believe that there was a total apostasy since you believe that the priesthood persisted? Is that what you believe?Apostasy of the Jews or of the Christians? I'm not sure I follow your thought here.
mfbukowski Posted December 21, 2014 Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) Canandaigua Sorry I have no clue what point this tangle of words purports to make. Post 41 makes the point that God can use anyone he wants to achieve his purposes, including Satan There is something in your formatting that makes it hard to quote you and causes repeats in doing so, and I really don't have the time or want to put in the effort to figure out how to correct it. Edited December 21, 2014 by mfbukowski
mfbukowski Posted December 21, 2014 Posted December 21, 2014 Apostasy of the Jews or of the Christians? I'm not sure I follow your thought here.There seems to be a lot of that going on here. 1
Canadaigua Posted December 30, 2014 Author Posted December 30, 2014 Really??? Then why is the phrase "animal sacrifice" never used?????? http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/search?search=%22animal+sacrifice%22&do=Search&anonymous_element_1_changed=search You are presenting this in a typical anti-Mormon fashion. First you tell us what a statement/scripture MUST mean (even though it doesn't say what you claim) and then you complain about the meaning you have given it. Just the same old anti-Mormon crap if you ask me.Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 172-173; History of the Church 4:210-212. "Sacrifice to Be Part of RestorationIt will be necessary here to make a few observations on the doctrine set forth in the above quotation, and it is generally supposed that sacrifice was entirely done away when the Great Sacrifice [i.e.,] the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus was offered up, and that there will be no necessity for the ordinance of sacrifice in future; but those who assert this are certainly not acquainted with the duties, privileges and authority of the Priesthood, or with the Prophets.The offering of sacrifice has ever been connected and forms a part of the duties of the Priesthood. It began with the Priesthood, and will be continued until after the coming of Christ, from generation to generation. We frequently have mention made of the offering of sacrifice by the servants of the Most High in ancient days, prior to the law of Moses; which ordinances will be continued when the Priesthood is restored with all its authority, power and blessings.…All Ordinances RestoredThese sacrifices, as well as every ordinance belonging to the Priesthood, will, when the Temple of the Lord shall be built, and the sons of Levi be purified, be fully restored and attended to in all their powers, ramifications, and blessings. This ever did and ever will exist when the powers of the Melchizedek Priesthood are sufficiently manifest; else how can the restitution of all things spoken of by the Holy Prophets be brought to pass? It is not to be understood that the law of Moses will be established again with all its rites and variety of ceremonies; this has never been spoken of by the prophets; but those things which existed prior to Moses' day, namely, sacrifice, will be continued.It may be asked by some, what necessity for sacrifice, since the Great Sacrifice was offered? In answer to which, if repentance, baptism, and faith existed prior to the days of Christ, what necessity for them since that time? The Priesthood has descended in a regular line from father to son, through their succeeding generations. (See Book of Doctrine and Covenants.) (October 5, 1840.) HC 4:207-212." Vance here is the quote again. Since you don't believe this is speaking about animal sacrifice can you tell me what "These sacrifices" are referring to in the above quote?
Canadaigua Posted December 30, 2014 Author Posted December 30, 2014 Apostasy of the Jews or of the Christians? I'm not sure I follow your thought here.You believe that the priesthood persisted through the Jews until the present day so you can't possibly believe that there was a total apostasy. Right?
Canadaigua Posted December 30, 2014 Author Posted December 30, 2014 Really??? Then why is the phrase "animal sacrifice" never used?????? http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/search?search=%22animal+sacrifice%22&do=Search&anonymous_element_1_changed=search You are presenting this in a typical anti-Mormon fashion. First you tell us what a statement/scripture MUST mean (even though it doesn't say what you claim) and then you complain about the meaning you have given it. Just the same old anti-Mormon crap if you ask me. LDS.ORG—>Resources—>General—>Magazines and Manuals—>All Manuals—>Institute— >Doctrine and Covenants (Student Manual)—>Section 13—>D and C 13:1 D&C 13:1. What Is Meant by the Sons of Levi Offering an Offering of Righteousness unto the Lord?The Prophet Joseph Smith commented as follows on this scripture:“It is generally supposed that sacrifice was entirely done away when the Great Sacrifice [i.e.,] the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus was offered up, and that there will be no necessity for the ordinance of sacrifice in the future; but those who assert this are certainly not acquainted with the duties, privileges and authority of the Priesthood, or with the Prophets.“The offering of sacrifice has ever been connected and forms a part of the duties of the Priesthood. It began with the Priesthood, and will be continued until after the coming of Christ, from generation to generation. …“These sacrifices, as well as every ordinance belonging to the Priesthood, will, when the Temple of the Lord shall be built, and the sons of Levi be purified, be fully restored and attended to in all their powers, ramifications, and blessings. This ever did and ever will exist when the powers of the Melchizedek Priesthood are sufficiently manifest; else how can the restitution of all things spoken of by the Holy Prophets be brought to pass. It is not to be understood that the law of Moses will be established again with all its rites and variety of ceremonies; this has never been spoken of by the prophets; but those things which existed prior to Moses’ day, namely, sacrifice, will be continued.” (Teachings, pp. 172–73.)President Joseph Fielding Smith further explained that “we are living in the dispensation of the fulness of times into which all things are to be gathered, and all things are to be restored since the beginning. Even this earth is to be restored to the condition which prevailed before Adam’s transgression. Now in the nature of things, the law of sacrifice will have to be restored, or all things which were decreed by the Lord would not be restored. It will be necessary, therefore, for the sons of Levi, who offered the blood sacrifices anciently in Israel, to offer such a sacrifice again to round out and complete this ordinance in this dispensation. Sacrifice by the shedding of blood was instituted in the days of Adam and of necessity will have to be restored.“The sacrifice of animals will be done to complete the restoration when the temple spoken of is built; at the beginning of the millennium, or in the restoration, blood sacrifices will be performed long enough to complete the fulness of the restoration in this dispensation. Afterwards sacrifice will be of some other character.” (Doctrines of Salvation, 3:94.) In the Doctrine and Covenants (Student Manual) it quotes Joseph Smith and his mention of "sacrifices" that we have been discussing and this is elaborated further by President Joseph Fielding Smith as quoted above, can you tell me what these "sacrifices" that Joseph Smith and Joseph Fielding Smith are speaking about exactly?
Vance Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 172-173; History of the Church 4:210-212. "Sacrifice to Be Part of RestorationIt will be necessary here to make a few observations on the doctrine set forth in the above quotation, and it is generally supposed that sacrifice was entirely done away when the Great Sacrifice [i.e.,] the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus was offered up, and that there will be no necessity for the ordinance of sacrifice in future; but those who assert this are certainly not acquainted with the duties, privileges and authority of the Priesthood, or with the Prophets.The offering of sacrifice has ever been connected and forms a part of the duties of the Priesthood. It began with the Priesthood, and will be continued until after the coming of Christ, from generation to generation. We frequently have mention made of the offering of sacrifice by the servants of the Most High in ancient days, prior to the law of Moses; which ordinances will be continued when the Priesthood is restored with all its authority, power and blessings.…All Ordinances RestoredThese sacrifices, as well as every ordinance belonging to the Priesthood, will, when the Temple of the Lord shall be built, and the sons of Levi be purified, be fully restored and attended to in all their powers, ramifications, and blessings. This ever did and ever will exist when the powers of the Melchizedek Priesthood are sufficiently manifest; else how can the restitution of all things spoken of by the Holy Prophets be brought to pass? It is not to be understood that the law of Moses will be established again with all its rites and variety of ceremonies; this has never been spoken of by the prophets; but those things which existed prior to Moses' day, namely, sacrifice, will be continued.It may be asked by some, what necessity for sacrifice, since the Great Sacrifice was offered? In answer to which, if repentance, baptism, and faith existed prior to the days of Christ, what necessity for them since that time? The Priesthood has descended in a regular line from father to son, through their succeeding generations. (See Book of Doctrine and Covenants.) (October 5, 1840.) HC 4:207-212." I notice that nowhere is the mention of animal sacrifice. So, again, you have failed to provide authoritative evidence that there has to be a future animal sacrifice. Vance here is the quote again. Since you don't believe this is speaking about animal sacrifice can you tell me what "These sacrifices" are referring to in the above quote?The same kind of sacrifice as mentioned in Rom 12:1, Philip 4:18, Heb. 13:15-16, and 1 Pet 2:5.
Canadaigua Posted December 31, 2014 Author Posted December 31, 2014 I notice that nowhere is the mention of animal sacrifice. So, again, you have failed to provide authoritative evidence that there has to be a future animal sacrifice. Vance did you even bother reading the information that I posted? I have reposted it again below--take a look at it--I even provided where you can find it on LDS.org so you can double check to see that it is accurate. LDS.ORG—>Resources—>General—>Magazines and Manuals—>All Manuals—>Institute— >Doctrine and Covenants (Student Manual)—>Section 13—>D and C 13:1 D&C 13:1. What Is Meant by the Sons of Levi Offering an Offering of Righteousness unto the Lord?The Prophet Joseph Smith commented as follows on this scripture:“It is generally supposed that sacrifice was entirely done away when the Great Sacrifice [i.e.,] the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus was offered up, and that there will be no necessity for the ordinance of sacrifice in the future; but those who assert this are certainly not acquainted with the duties, privileges and authority of the Priesthood, or with the Prophets.“The offering of sacrifice has ever been connected and forms a part of the duties of the Priesthood. It began with the Priesthood, and will be continued until after the coming of Christ, from generation to generation. …“These sacrifices, as well as every ordinance belonging to the Priesthood, will, when the Temple of the Lord shall be built, and the sons of Levi be purified, be fully restored and attended to in all their powers, ramifications, and blessings. This ever did and ever will exist when the powers of the Melchizedek Priesthood are sufficiently manifest; else how can the restitution of all things spoken of by the Holy Prophets be brought to pass. It is not to be understood that the law of Moses will be established again with all its rites and variety of ceremonies; this has never been spoken of by the prophets; but those things which existed prior to Moses’ day, namely, sacrifice, will be continued.” (Teachings, pp. 172–73.)President Joseph Fielding Smith further explained that “we are living in the dispensation of the fulness of times into which all things are to be gathered, and all things are to be restored since the beginning. Even this earth is to be restored to the condition which prevailed before Adam’s transgression. Now in the nature of things, the law of sacrifice will have to be restored, or all things which were decreed by the Lord would not be restored. It will be necessary, therefore, for the sons of Levi, who offered the blood sacrifices anciently in Israel, to offer such a sacrifice again to round out and complete this ordinance in this dispensation. Sacrifice by the shedding of blood was instituted in the days of Adam and of necessity will have to be restored.“The sacrifice of animals will be done to complete the restoration when the temple spoken of is built; at the beginning of the millennium, or in the restoration, blood sacrifices will be performed long enough to complete the fulness of the restoration in this dispensation. Afterwards sacrifice will be of some other character.” (Doctrines of Salvation, 3:94.) In the Doctrine and Covenants (Student Manual) it quotes Joseph Smith and his mention of "sacrifices" that we have been discussing and this is elaborated further by President Joseph Fielding Smith as quoted above, can you tell me what these "sacrifices" that Joseph Smith and Joseph Fielding Smith are speaking about exactly?
Vance Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 LDS.ORG—>Resources—>General—>Magazines and Manuals—>All Manuals—>Institute— >Doctrine and Covenants (Student Manual)—>Section 13—>D and C 13:1 D&C 13:1. What Is Meant by the Sons of Levi Offering an Offering of Righteousness unto the Lord?The Prophet Joseph Smith commented as follows on this scripture:“It is generally supposed that sacrifice was entirely done away when the Great Sacrifice [i.e.,] the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus was offered up, and that there will be no necessity for the ordinance of sacrifice in the future; but those who assert this are certainly not acquainted with the duties, privileges and authority of the Priesthood, or with the Prophets.“The offering of sacrifice has ever been connected and forms a part of the duties of the Priesthood. It began with the Priesthood, and will be continued until after the coming of Christ, from generation to generation. …“These sacrifices, as well as every ordinance belonging to the Priesthood, will, when the Temple of the Lord shall be built, and the sons of Levi be purified, be fully restored and attended to in all their powers, ramifications, and blessings. This ever did and ever will exist when the powers of the Melchizedek Priesthood are sufficiently manifest; else how can the restitution of all things spoken of by the Holy Prophets be brought to pass. It is not to be understood that the law of Moses will be established again with all its rites and variety of ceremonies; this has never been spoken of by the prophets; but those things which existed prior to Moses’ day, namely, sacrifice, will be continued.” (Teachings, pp. 172–73.)President Joseph Fielding Smith further explained that “we are living in the dispensation of the fulness of times into which all things are to be gathered, and all things are to be restored since the beginning. Even this earth is to be restored to the condition which prevailed before Adam’s transgression. Now in the nature of things, the law of sacrifice will have to be restored, or all things which were decreed by the Lord would not be restored. It will be necessary, therefore, for the sons of Levi, who offered the blood sacrifices anciently in Israel, to offer such a sacrifice again to round out and complete this ordinance in this dispensation. Sacrifice by the shedding of blood was instituted in the days of Adam and of necessity will have to be restored.“The sacrifice of animals will be done to complete the restoration when the temple spoken of is built; at the beginning of the millennium, or in the restoration, blood sacrifices will be performed long enough to complete the fulness of the restoration in this dispensation. Afterwards sacrifice will be of some other character.” (Doctrines of Salvation, 3:94.) In the Doctrine and Covenants (Student Manual) it quotes Joseph Smith and his mention of "sacrifices" that we have been discussing and this is elaborated further by President Joseph Fielding Smith as quoted above, can you tell me what these "sacrifices" that Joseph Smith and Joseph Fielding Smith are speaking about exactly?"Doctrines of Salvation" is not an authoritative source. You can't provide an authoritative source that describes the sacrifice the way you want it to, because there isn't one.
Vance Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Vance did you even bother reading the information that I posted? I have reposted it again below--take a look at it--I even provided where you can find it on LDS.org so you can double check to see that it is accurate.Yes, I read it. Again, because you just don't seem to get it, "Doctrines of Salvation" is not an authoritative source for doctrine. Simply put it is the opinion of Joseph Fielding Smith. An opinion that he NEVER made the effort or took the time to attempt to canonize. It is therefore NOT official LDS doctrine. So, get over it.
Vance Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) What part of this is so difficult to understand?? (Notice that this IS an authoritative source). Alma 34:13 Therefore, it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice, and then shall there be, or it is expedient there should be, a stop to the shedding of blood; then shall the law of Moses be fulfilled; yea, it shall be all fulfilled, every jot and tittle, and none shall have passed away14 And behold, this is the whole meaning of the law, every whit pointing to that great and last sacrifice; and that great and last sacrifice will be the Son of God, yea, infinite and eternal. Edited December 31, 2014 by Vance 1
Vance Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 If you would like to read a good explanation of the law of sacrifice try this one. https://www.lds.org/ensign/1998/10/the-law-of-sacrifice?lang=eng 1
Vance Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Another authoritative source. 3 Nephi 9: 19 And ye shall offer up unto me no more the shedding of blood; yea, your sacrifices and your burnt offerings shall be done away, for I will accept none of your sacrifices and your burnt offerings. 20 And ye shall offer for a sacrifice unto me a broken heart and a contrite spirit. And whoso cometh unto me with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, him will I baptize with fire and with the Holy Ghost, even as the Lamanites, because of their faith in me at the time of their conversion, were baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost, and they knew it not. 1
teddyaware Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Yes, I read it. Again, because you just don't seem to get it, "Doctrines of Salvation" is not an authoritative source for doctrine. Simply put it is the opinion of Joseph Fielding Smith. An opinion that he NEVER made the effort or took the time to attempt to canonize. It is therefore NOT official LDS doctrine. So, get over it. Hi Vance, After some investigation, the following sets forth why I believe there is misunderstanding on this issue: In the Joseph Smith statement on restored sacrifice, there is absolutely no specific mention of a restoration of ANIMAL SACRIFICES. Search the prophet's statement as one may and it will soon be seen that there is no specific mention of ANIMAL SACRIFICE. Rather, the prophet speaks only of some sort of sacrifices without any specificity as to precisely the kind of restored sacrifices of which he was speaking. Now, an LDS temple goer with spiritually open eyes and ears will see that the LDS temple rites are full of ritualized sacrifices, but they are sacrifices where no actual blood is shed. The symbolic sacrificial nature of the temple ordinances are still plainly evident today, but they were especially evident prior to the changes made to the endowment in the 1980's. I believe what happened is that Joseph Fielding Smith read and pondered the prophet's statement on the restoration of sacrifice, and even though the statement doesn't specifically mention animal sacrifice by the shedding of blood, and even though his conclusion is at odds with the scriptures, Joseph Fielding Smith seems to have ASSUMED the prophet Joseph Smith was speaking of blood sacrifices of animals, even though the scriptures and THE INSTRUCTION WE RECEIVE WITHIN LDS TEMPLES clearly and unambiguously teach that the sacrifice of animals by the shedding of blood ended with the atoning sacrifice of Christ. The only sacrifices that take place in our temples are symbolic sacrifices where there is no actual shedding of real blood, just as in baptism there is no actual death of the convert. And it also must be remembered that we Latter-day Saints believe the ancient Patriarchs, prior to the establishment of the Law of Moses, had the temple endowment and the other symbolic sacrificial temple rites that we have today, and it is to these symbolic rites of "living sacrifice" (as per Paul's declaration) that the prophet Joseph Smith was speaking of being restored. This is my opinion and I may be wrong, but I believe it's likely this controversy started with Joseph Fielding Smith misunderstanding Joseph Smith's statement on the restoration of Patriarchal Era sacrificial rites. And he jumped to this conclusion even though he knew that his opinion stood in clear contradiction of the Standard Works. And as all Latter-day Saints know, the only doctrines that officially hold water are those that don't contradict the four volumes of LDS scripture. Edited December 31, 2014 by teddyaware
Vance Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Hi Vance, <SNIP>Thanks for articulating what I am trying to get across.
Robert F. Smith Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 ........................................................................This is my opinion and I may be wrong, but I believe it's likely this controversy started with Joseph Fielding Smith misunderstanding Joseph Smith's statement on the restoration of Patriarchal Era sacrificial rites. And he jumped to this conclusion even though he knew that his opinion stood in clear contradiction of the Standard Works. And as all Latter-day Saints know, the only doctrines that officially hold water are those that don't contradict the four volumes of LDS scripture.You guys may be mixing apples and oranges in your discussion here. I see no reason to assert that Mormons will be doing animal sacrifice, although what you call "Patriarchal Era" blood sacrifice could conceivably be in the offing -- however, I just don't see it. The only animal sacrifice which will be offered in future, and which is absolutely required by Jewish law, is that on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. That is part of the Restoration and may continue under the supervision of the Sons of Levi until the Messiah comes again. The Mormons will have no say in that process, but it must be done before the Millennium is ushered in, and is a central part in the apocalyptic conversion of the Jews. Once that takes place, then all Israel will work together to complete the Plan of Salvation, both in America and in Israel. I can envision Israeli temples being established once again from Dan to Beersheba, at which the Jews will rapidly perform baptisms for their dead, and the full endowments and sealings required. This will include the 6.5 million victims of the Holocaust, and many more Jews who have lived and died throughout world history.
Canadaigua Posted December 31, 2014 Author Posted December 31, 2014 "Doctrines of Salvation" is not an authoritative source. You can't provide an authoritative source that describes the sacrifice the way you want it to, because there isn't one.Perhaps you didn't notice but the entire quote was taken from the Doctrine and Covenants (Student Manual) which is an official LDS publication. Again here is where it is located so you can verify it for yourself. LDS.ORG—>Resources—>General—>Magazines and Manuals—>All Manuals—>Institute— >Doctrine and Covenants (Student Manual)—>Section 13—>D and C 13:1
Canadaigua Posted December 31, 2014 Author Posted December 31, 2014 I see no reason to assert that Mormons will be doing animal sacrifice. . .Why not since it has been taught by LDS prophets and it is in official LDS manuals.
teddyaware Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) You guys may be mixing apples and oranges in your discussion here. I see no reason to assert that Mormons will be doing animal sacrifice, although what you call "Patriarchal Era" blood sacrifice could conceivably be in the offing -- however, I just don't see it. The only animal sacrifice which will be offered in future, and which is absolutely required by Jewish law, is that on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. That is part of the Restoration and may continue under the supervision of the Sons of Levi until the Messiah comes again. The Mormons will have no say in that process, but it must be done before the Millennium is ushered in, and is a central part in the apocalyptic conversion of the Jews. Once that takes place, then all Israel will work together to complete the Plan of Salvation, both in America and in Israel. I can envision Israeli temples being established once again from Dan to Beersheba, at which the Jews will rapidly perform baptisms for their dead, and the full endowments and sealings required. This will include the 6.5 million victims of the Holocaust, and many more Jews who have lived and died throughout world history. Hello Robert, If you care to, read my previous post again because I believe you misunderstood me, possibly because I didn't make myself clear enough. I do not at all believe Patriarchal Era blood sacrifices will be restored, quite the opposite. Rather, I believe the ancient sacrificial rites that we currently practice in our temples is what the prophet Joseph Smith was referring to in his statement on restored sacrifices. Whether the saints are aware of it or not, the rites of the temple are sacrificial in nature, though no actual blood is shed. The sacred rites we perform today in our temples were first practiced by the Patriarchs and by revelation they have been revealed again in our day. Additionally, I believe the offering of righteousness the sons of Levi will make will be fulfilled when they offer themselves as living sacrifices in the endowment ceremony in an LDS temple. In 3 Nephi, the Lord forcefully made it perfectly clear that He will accept no more sacrifices by the shedding of the blood of animals. Edited December 31, 2014 by teddyaware
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 You believe that the priesthood persisted through the Jews until the present day so you can't possibly believe that there was a total apostasy. Right?Oh you caught us, there was not a total apostasy. WE should all leave the church now. 1
mfbukowski Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Hello Robert, If you care to, read my previous post again because I believe you misunderstood me, possibly because I didn't make myself clear enough. I do not at all believe Patriarchal Era blood sacrifices will be restored, quite the opposite. Rather, I believe the ancient sacrificial rites that we currently practice in our temples is what the prophet Joseph Smith was referring to in his statement on restored sacrifices. Whether the saints are aware of it or not, the rites of the temple are sacrificial in nature, though no actual blood is shed and these restored rites that were had by the Patriarchs and by revelation revealed again in our day. Additionally, I believe the offering of righteousness the sons of Levi will make will be fulfilled when they offer themselves as living sacrifices in the endowment ceremony in an LDS temple. In 3 Nephi, the Lord forcefully made it perfectly clear that He will accept no more sacrifices by the shedding of the blood of animals.I agree, you could be completely right, and that is the end of the story.. But there is even another dimension to all this. Notice D&C mentions the "Sons of Levi" making the sacrifice, so we automatically assume that means members of the church who are at least Aaronic priesthood holders. Suppose these sons of Levi were literal sons of Levi who are not church members, but Jewish, who offer the sacrifice in a new temple not yet constructed, in Israel? If we make this assumption, and further assume that references in Doctrines of Salvation misinterpreted the scripture just as has virtually everyone else, the entire problem disappears. The sons of Levi make the sacrifice, which is one of the signs of the times, just as was the restoration of Israel as a nation. We had nothing to do with the restoration of Israel, why should we assume we have to be the ones making the sacrifices? Or on the other hand, we could be both right and it will be fulfilled in two different ways Edited December 31, 2014 by mfbukowski 2
mfbukowski Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Oh you caught us, there was not a total apostasy. WE should all leave the church now.Exactly.There are just too many nuances here for him to grasp, but unfortunately it does not appear he is here to learn anyway. 2
Vance Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Why not since it has been taught by LDS prophets and it is in official LDS manuals. You are really clueless when it comes to the LDS hierarchy of authority. Scripture trumps other LDS publications, like manuals. Especially when those manual quote non-church publications. So, the scriptures I quoted trump what you quoted.
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