sethpayne Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 Howdy all. So I was watching this: and was a bit surprised at the claims made between 11:00 - 15:00 Clearly Jake is making much more of his meeting with an obviously polite Scott Wilde. But I'm curious about Jake's claims about the Church manuals being changed to show a shift *away* from the Mesoamerican model. I guess I'm going to need to check out the latest manuals but was curious if anyone here has seen any shift as suggested by Jake.
bluebell Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 If it is true (and I have no idea if it is or isn't) a shift away from one model does not automatically equal a shift toward a different model. I wouldn't be surprised if the church stopped implying endorsement of the mesoamerican model, not because it's wrong but because it hasn't been reveal as right. Sometimes staying with "we don't know" is the best option.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 If it is true (and I have no idea if it is or isn't) a shift away from one model does not automatically equal a shift toward a different model. I wouldn't be surprised if the church stopped implying endorsement of the mesoamerican model, not because it's wrong but because it hasn't been reveal as right. Sometimes staying with "we don't know" is the best option.Agreed. If the manuals reflect that there is no officially endorsed model, well, there's no change in that from the past. I can't think that's good news for heartlanders, since they love to guage people's faithfulness by adherence to their model.
Bob Crockett Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 I don't trust anything from the video lecture guy. But if true it is good news for the Meldrumites. How could you possibly think otherwise? But I don't believe it.
Nevo Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Behold the shift away from the Mesoamerican model:
sethpayne Posted October 3, 2014 Author Posted October 3, 2014 Behold the shift away from the Mesoamerican model: Seminary Manual 2000.pdfSeminary Manual 2012.pdf Interesting. With the exception of added color and dropping the attribution to Ludlow, they would appear identical. 1
livy111us Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Interesting little comment that the make at the bottom of the new Institute Manual's map of BOM lands "Possible relationships of sites in the Book of Mormon, based on internal evidence. No effort should be made to identify points on this map with any existing geographical location."
sethpayne Posted October 3, 2014 Author Posted October 3, 2014 Interesting little comment that the make at the bottom of the new Institute Manual's map of BOM lands "Possible relationships of sites in the Book of Mormon, based on internal evidence. No effort should be made to identify points on this map with any existing geographical location." That statement appears in both. 2000 and 2012.
Sevenbak Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 I'm curious about Jake's claims about the Church manuals being changed to show a shift *away* from the Mesoamerican model.I'd love to see some evidence that there was ever any mesoamerican only model in the manuals. Or for that matter, any Heartlander only models taught in the manuals. Both ideas are modern, and not taught by the Church.
Calm Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 He is wrong about the pictures. They are still using the same old pictures with the hint of Mesoamerican buildings from the Gospel Art kit.
Wiki Wonka Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 I'd love to see some evidence that there was ever any mesoamerican only model in the manuals. Or for that matter, any Heartlander only models taught in the manuals. Both ideas are modern, and not taught by the Church. Not a manual, but a filmstrip from the 70s: Ancient America Speaks:
Robert F. Smith Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Interesting little comment that the make at the bottom of the new Institute Manual's map of BOM lands "Possible relationships of sites in the Book of Mormon, based on internal evidence. No effort should be made to identify points on this map with any existing geographical location." Dan Ludlow was saying that in print a generation ago. Useful things tend to get recycled.
Sevenbak Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Thanks wiki wonka, but that isn't a Meso-only filmstrip. The church has, from practically it's beginnings taught that the BoM events occurred in Mesoamerica, and also in N. America.
nosmelone Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Behold the shift away from the Mesoamerican model: Seminary Manual 2000.pdfSeminary Manual 2012.pdfMaybe I'm missing something but I don't see any shift. This appears more along the lines of a Mesoamerican generic model to me.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see any shift. This appears more along the lines of a Mesoamerican generic model to me.That might be the point.
Bob Crockett Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see any shift. This appears more along the lines of a Mesoamerican generic model to me.It drops the reference to Ludlow, who opposed the Sorenson model.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 It drops the reference to Ludlow, who opposed the Sorenson model. Can you document that he opposed the Sorenson model? (Not that I'm doubting you. It's just that I had not been aware of it.)
cinepro Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) This recently produced Church video definitely has more of a "Heartland" look to its Book of Mormon scenes than past videos: https://www.lds.org/media-library/video/2014-04-004-scriptures-legacy?lang=eng Christ's visit at 7:30 almost looks like a hybrid between the the Heartland and Mesoamerica. Edited October 3, 2014 by cinepro
Scott Lloyd Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) This recently produced Church video definitely has more of a "Heartland" look to its Book of Mormon scenes than past videos: https://www.lds.org/media-library/video/2014-04-004-scriptures-legacy?lang=eng Christ's visit at 7:30 almost looks like a hybrid between the the Heartland and Mesoamerica.Is this the one that was a subject of a thread on this board not too long ago? The one that was criticized as being something of a mishmash of cultures and time periods? Edited October 3, 2014 by Scott Lloyd
cinepro Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Is this the one that was a subject of a thread on this board not too long ago? The one that was criticizes as being something of a mishmash of cultures and time periods? I don't remember that thread, but from what I remember of the video (and what I saw as I posted it), it would probably be a valid observation.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 I don't remember that thread, but from what I remember of the video (and what I saw as I posted it), it would probably be a valid observation.I found a link to the thread I'm referring to: http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/63375-whats-name-of-video-on-conference-day/
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