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Be Thankful For The Honest Sinners

VideoGameJunkie

By VideoGameJunkie
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VideoGameJunkie Grand Master

VideoGameJunkie

Posted
Posted

It occurred to me that the people who secretly video recorded the temple sessions and what goes on in temples claimed during their temple recommend interviews and meeting with the Bishopric and Stake Presidency that they were worthy and in good standing. Heck, anyone can always lie and claim they are worthy to the Bishopric, who's going to know, unless one of their major sins is made public. This matter makes me appreciate the honesty and actual integrity of the sinners who tell the truth about their unworthiness so to save their souls and not make a mockery of God or the church. I know this subject all too well as I was too embarrassed one time to tell my Bishop in the past about a sin I was going through. I admire the honest.

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VideoGameJunkie Grand Master

VideoGameJunkie

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Thanks Ahab. I have embraced my new username. haha I love to start threads.  You have no idea how many people lie in temple interviews about their worthiness and how many take the sacrament who shouldn't be taking it. I feel for the ones that are honest in their interviews and don't take the sacrament when not feeling worthy.

ksfisher Grand Master

ksfisher

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 You have no idea how many people lie in temple interviews about their worthiness and how many take the sacrament who shouldn't be taking it.

 

I'm pretty sure that God is the only person who would know this.

JLHPROF Grand Master

JLHPROF

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To quote Blackadder: "I have occasionally done things wrong. I have coveted my father's adultery. I have not always honored my neighbor's ***."

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ksfisher Grand Master

ksfisher

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If the Bishoprics and Stake Presidencies were in tune with the spirit as I was taught they were, shouldn't they know if a person is lying to them? 

 

Why even have the interview.  The bishop could just hand out recommends to all those whom the spirit tells him are worthy.

 

Or, even better, we could just go to the temple and the person who checks the recommends could be told if we'd sinned that day and were not worthy to enter.

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The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

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If the Bishoprics and Stake Presidencies were in tune with the spirit as I was taught they were, shouldn't they know if a person is lying to them? 

 

Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. The idea that Priesthood leader's get unlimited access to divine knowledge about everyone is a popular but false one. God told Joseph Smith to keep things secret because Joseph could not always tell the wicked from the righteous. If prophets do not get that level of omniscience why would bishops?

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Anteojito Collaborator

Anteojito

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Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. The idea that Priesthood leader's get unlimited access to divine knowledge about everyone is a popular but false one. God told Joseph Smith to keep things secret because Joseph could not always tell the wicked from the righteous. If prophets do not get that level of omniscience why would bishops?

That is reasonable...but I think there is a difference between the member who views porn and lies about it and the guy who is planning to sneak a camera into the temple to record what is supposed to be one of the most sacred things on earth.

The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

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That is reasonable...but I think there is a difference between the member who views porn and lies about it and the guy who is planning to sneak a camera into the temple to record what is supposed to be one of the most sacred things on earth.

Then you should tell God who He needs to warn Priesthood leaders about.

Jeanne Grand Master

Jeanne

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If the Bishoprics and Stake Presidencies were in tune with the spirit as I was taught they were, shouldn't they know if a person is lying to them? 

This.  I was brought up with the idea that the Bishop/SP would know if you are lying.  That one of the reasons they have their leadership callings is because of the faith and spiritual discernment.

The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

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This.  I was brought up with the idea that the Bishop/SP would know if you are lying.  That one of the reasons they have their leadership callings is because of the faith and spiritual discernment.

Sometimes they do. I would even say they often do. They do not always know. Sometimes God lets us get more rope with which to hang ourselves.

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Hamba Tuhan Grand Master

Hamba Tuhan

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Posted (edited)

If the Bishoprics and Stake Presidencies were in tune with the spirit as I was taught they were, shouldn't they know if a person is lying to them? 

 

And then what?

 

Ask the person if s/he has been lying? Oddly enough, people who lie in interviews, when asked if they've been lying, don't tell the truth.

 

Withhold the recommend anyway? And then count down the minutes til the 'wronged' member is online posting on embittered-soon-to-be-exmormons.org about his/her latest brush with 'unrighteous dominion'?

 

On more than one occasion, I've had a clear and distinct impression that someone was lying to me during a recommend interview. As a consequence, I've tried to ask a few follow-up questions that don't violate the guidelines on what can/cannot be asked during such interviews. I've tried to give the person every opportunity to be honest and bring up problems or concerns. But in the end, if all the person does is give the correct answers, what should one do?

 

I've come to understand that my signature on a temple recommend does not verify the worthiness of the holder; rather, it simply indicates that I followed instructions in allowing the holder to verify to me his/her own worthiness. And so I've signed recommends for people who I was certain were lying to me. And who then lied to a member of the stake presidency. And then, of course, lied to God.

 

In the most recent case, I interviewed a sister last year and 'understood' immediately that she was being dishonest. After finishing the interview, we chatted about Church and temple attendance and family, etc., all designed to give her an opportunity to back out of her lies, but she didn't. Several months ago, she threw her faithful husband out of the house, stopped coming to Church, and last week asked the Sister missionaries to stop visiting.

 

Am I surprised? Not in the least. Was there anything practical I could do about it? Not really.

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
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strappinglad Grand Master

strappinglad

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If one lies about serious sins in a TR interview and then attends the temple , is the temple defiled or just the individual?

Maybe temples should be rededicated every couple of years so as to cleanse them from all the defilement of lying attendees.

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rpn Grand Master

rpn

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The Lord often lets people hang themselves, rather than preventing them from doing something.   How else does He get the evidence that is required to administer justice?

VideoGameJunkie Grand Master

VideoGameJunkie

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But I honestly feel like my soul is doomed from not being fully honest in my temple interviews and entering the temple since then possibly defiling it. I honestly have tried repenting but it appears by other posters that it's too late the damage has been done. God has been mocked.

The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

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I've hung myself apparently. I'm endowed and I've entered the temple before confessing sins to the Bishop. Oh well it looks like it's hell for me. Time to get used to torture.

I doubt it.

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