Thrones, Kingdoms, Principalities, Powers, And Dominions Symbolism?

[halconero]

Time for the constitutional monarchist to jump in. The concept of multiple thrones may be difficult for the average person to comprehend unless they study the concept of "personal union" in monarchies both past and present.

Example(s):

Before the act of union in the early 18th century, Britain was divided up into three distinct realms and kingdoms. The Kingdoms of England, Ireland and Scotland. These were their own countries, but united because James II and later William III happened to be the king of all three. These kingdoms were in personal union with each other.

By the act of union the United Kingdom was formed and all three kingdoms were amalgamated into one.

The practice persists today throughout the British Commonwealth. Legally, Canada is a separate monarchy from Great Britain. The Canadian monarchy has it's separate traditions, crown, and throne. Elizabeth II doesn't reign over Canada by her status as the Queen of Great Britain, but in personal union with it's monarchy. Legally, Canada is an independent Kingdom or Dominion, who has accept an individual as their sovereign who also happens to reign over other Monarchies. Elizabeth II sits a plurality of thrones in personal union. Previous to Canadian independence, Canada was a British territory incorporated into the the Kingdom of Great Britain. So we have gone from 1 throne to 2 thrones just in that instance.

D&C 132 seems to indicate that eternity represents more than time, but stewardship and dominion as well. It also indicates that there exists a plurality of eternities, independent of one another, over which the exalted will reign. These eternities, rules through monarchy (or thrones), may be said to be held in personal union.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Thanks hal, that was the answer to the question I was looking for.

[DJBrown]

D&C 132 talks about the blessings we can receive if we are exalted. D&C talks about how we can inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, powers, and dominions. I noticed that the thrones and kingdoms are in plural form. Does this mean that we get more than one throne and more than one kingdom? And what was brought up in another thread by a poster, is they think the throne we are promised is symbolic. Do you think we'll actually spend eternity sitting on a throne or thrones plural, or will we be standing for eternity with the thrones being symbolic? And the same goes for being promised a crown of righteousness. Will we actually have a crown on our heads or will it just be symbolic?

 

I believe D&C 121 is key in understand God's throne as well as any dominion we may eventually preside over.  

 

"And without compulsory means, it shall flow unto thee forever and ever."  The nature of this dominion is different than any other "throne" on earth.  It naturally flows to one with dominion as a consequence of his or her integrity, virtue and character.  I am inclined to see it not as a physical throne but a liberty and power from character.

[VideoGameJunkie]

DJ, that's interesting to hear it not as a physical throne, but power. I was worried I would have to get fitted with a big enough throne chair to fit my fat butt. haha

[VideoGameJunkie]

I thought about it and I believe the thrones and crowns we receive will be symbolic and not real physical ones. We will have no need to sit down since we will not tire and I don't think material objects will matter. I read in the scriptures that it will be a crown of righteousness. I'm almost positive that's symbolic. So I can assume we won't all get actual physical thrones.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I did sealings this morning and the sealer talked about the promises during the marriage sealing and he said kingdoms in reference to kingdoms,thrones, principalities is referring to world's we will have. So the sealer said those who get sealed through marriage are promised rule over world's without number and will populate those world's forever in eternal increase of posterity and that is the blessing of exaltations. All thanks to getting sealed in the temple. Now I hate being single.

Edited November 7, 2015 by VideoGameJunkie

[Ahab]

I did sealings this morning and the sealer talked about the promises during the marriage sealing and he said kingdoms in reference to kingdoms,thrones, principalities is referring to world's we will have. So the sealer said those who get sealed through marriage are promised rule over world's without number and will populate those world's forever in eternal increase of posterity and that is the blessing of exaltations. All thanks to getting sealed in the temple. Now I hate being single.

Yeah I would think you would want to wait on doing those for others until you did it for the first time with your wife.

But I suppose now you can say you've been sealed to those other women as a proxy for some other men.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I went with a girl from my singles ward and it was her first time doing sealings and she loved it.

[CV75]

D&C 132 talks about the blessings we can receive if we are exalted. D&C talks about how we can inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, powers, and dominions. I noticed that the thrones and kingdoms are in plural form. Does this mean that we get more than one throne and more than one kingdom? And what was brought up in another thread by a poster, is they think the throne we are promised is symbolic. Do you think we'll actually spend eternity sitting on a throne or thrones plural, or will we be standing for eternity with the thrones being symbolic? And the same goes for being promised a crown of righteousness. Will we actually have a crown on our heads or will it just be symbolic?

Some synonyms for throne include: sovereign power, sovereignty, rule, dominion an these are just as real as physical places to physically sit.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Ya, one scripture said heaven is God's throne and the earth is His footstill so I doubt he's sitting on an actual throne and is instead everywhere in heaven that He wants to rule from.

[Sanpitch]

I did sealings this morning and the sealer talked about the promises during the marriage sealing and he said kingdoms in reference to kingdoms,thrones, principalities is referring to world's we will have. So the sealer said those who get sealed through marriage are promised rule over world's without number and will populate those world's forever in eternal increase of posterity and that is the blessing of exaltations. All thanks to getting sealed in the temple. Now I hate being single.

 

Now wait a minute, maybe you rule over other worlds and have kingdoms, thrones and principalities but the church now says you don't get your own planet and you don't become gods so forget it.

[halconero]

To go down the rabbit hole a bit, why are the promises contained within the sealing ordinance referred to as the Abrahamic Covenant? It might help to recall that neither Abraham nor Sarah are the original names of those who received them, but are in effect titles: Abraham means "Father of a Multitude," while Sarah signifies "Queen/Royal." 

Recalling the promises of the initiatory and the endowment, it is not too much of a stretch to consider that all who receive and keep the covenants of the sealing become Abrahams and Sarahs, rendering the "Abrahamic" part a reference to all who enter into exaltation.

[VideoGameJunkie]

San pitch you are right we don't get a planet. We get planets plural. We get worlds without end and populate those worlds. The church should admit that part if we are being honest.

[JLHPROF]

Now wait a minute, maybe you rule over other worlds and have kingdoms, thrones and principalities but the church now says you don't get your own planet and you don't become gods so forget it.

 

The Church said no such thing.  They downplayed the teaching and claimed limited understanding.

But that has never been disavowed.

[JLHPROF]

To go down the rabbit hole a bit, why are the promises contained within the sealing ordinance referred to as the Abrahamic Covenant? It might help to recall that neither Abraham nor Sarah are the original names of those who received them, but are in effect titles: Abraham means "Father of a Multitude," while Sarah signifies "Queen/Royal." 

Recalling the promises of the initiatory and the endowment, it is not too much of a stretch to consider that all who receive and keep the covenants of the sealing become Abrahams and Sarahs, rendering the "Abrahamic" part a reference to all who enter into exaltation.

 

Love this!  Gives new meaning to eternal increase, kings and priests, exaltation, etc..

[Sanpitch]

The Church said no such thing.  They downplayed the teaching and claimed limited understanding.

But that has never been disavowed.

==============================================

Then what on earth does this mean?

 

Do Latter-day Saints believe they can become “gods”?

Latter-day Saints believe that God wants us to become like Him. But this teaching is often misrepresented by those who caricature the faith. The Latter-day Saint belief is no different than the biblical teaching, which states, “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together” (Romans 8:16-17). Through following Christ's teachings, Latter-day Saints believe all people can become "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4).

 

Do Latter-day Saints believe that they will “get their own planet”?

No. This idea is not taught in Latter-day Saint scripture, nor is it a doctrine of the Church. This misunderstanding stems from speculative comments unreflective of scriptural doctrine. Mormons believe that we are all sons and daughters of God and that all of us have the potential to grow during and after this life to become like our Heavenly Father (see Romans 8:16-17). The Church does not and has never purported to fully understand the specifics of Christ’s statement that “in my Father’s house are many mansions” (John 14:2).

Edited November 8, 2015 by Sanpitch

[JLHPROF]

Then what on earth does this mean?

 

Do Latter-day Saints believe they can become “gods”?

Latter-day Saints believe that God wants us to become like Him. But this teaching is often misrepresented by those who caricature the faith. The Latter-day Saint belief is no different than the biblical teaching, which states, “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together” (Romans 8:16-17). Through following Christ's teachings, Latter-day Saints believe all people can become "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4).

 

Do Latter-day Saints believe that they will “get their own planet”?

No. This idea is not taught in Latter-day Saint scripture, nor is it a doctrine of the Church. This misunderstanding stems from speculative comments unreflective of scriptural doctrine. Mormons believe that we are all sons and daughters of God and that all of us have the potential to grow during and after this life to become like our Heavenly Father (see Romans 8:16-17). The Church does not and has never purported to fully understand the specifics of Christ’s statement that “in my Father’s house are many mansions” (John 14:2).

 

Exactly what I said - downplayed the teaching and claimed limited understanding.

 

We believe that "we are all sons and daughters of God and that all of us have the potential to grow during and after this life to become like our Heavenly Father".

What else do you think that is referring to?  We will be like Heavenly Father.  What does Heavenly Father do?  (Moses 1:39).

 

Just a typical example of the Church not wanting to appear any more different than mainstream Christianity than it has to.

[Sanpitch]

Exactly what I said - downplayed the teaching and claimed limited understanding.

 

We believe that "we are all sons and daughters of God and that all of us have the potential to grow during and after this life to become like our Heavenly Father".

What else do you think that is referring to?  We will be like Heavenly Father.  What does Heavenly Father do?  (Moses 1:39).

 

Just a typical example of the Church not wanting to appear any more different than mainstream Christianity than it has to.

When it says:  "Do Latter-day Saints believe that they will get their own planet?   NO!"  I think that means to not expect getting their own planet.  And if no planet then no gods.  But why so many references to becoming gods and ruling over worlds?  Can you become a god and not have a planet for all your descendants?  This has always baffled me what the meaning is.  Members seem to believe in their own planet but the church says no.

[JLHPROF]

When it says:  "Do Latter-day Saints believe that they will get their own planet?   NO!"  I think that means to not expect getting their own planet.  And if no planet then no gods.  But why so many references to becoming gods and ruling over worlds?  Can you become a god and not have a planet for all your descendants?  This has always baffled me what the meaning is.  Members seem to believe in their own planet but the church says no.

 

You are 100% right on this.

There is a division.  Personally, I think the Church is just prevaricating to downplay one of our more unique beliefs.

There is a desire among some in the Church to appear publicly as just another Christian religion, even though it is well know that we have many more significant theological differences than the Word of Wisdom.

[VideoGameJunkie]

You don't get a planet, you get planets, worlds plural.

[Sanpitch]

You are 100% right on this.

There is a division.  Personally, I think the Church is just prevaricating to downplay one of our more unique beliefs.

There is a desire among some in the Church to appear publicly as just another Christian religion, even though it is well know that we have many more significant theological differences than the Word of Wisdom.

Thank you, I've brought this up before and never received a valid answer.  I think your answer is the correct one.

[Avatar4321]

You don't get a planet, you get planets, worlds plural.

We get everything actually

Edited November 8, 2015 by Avatar4321

[Stargazer]

I have lived long enough to realize that I have little desire to rule over anyone. I have enough trouble ruling over my unruly self. If I were to inherit a rare Ferrari from some distant uncle, I wouldn't be able to enjoy it because I would be constantly worried that it might be damaged and reduced in value. Unless I have a massive change in personality in the hereafter, getting a kingdom to run would be the ultimate "white elephant gift" .

 

As for God's throne, I hope that it is the heavenly version of a Lazy-Boy recliner.

 

I suspect that you'll get what you want!  

 

But please note that God's rule is not man's rule.  There is a huge difference between the two, and you are confusing them.  When King Henry VIII commands that such be done, his subjects comply out of fear of the King's wrath if they don't.  Some of his subjects might comply out of some respect for him, but that respect must always be tinged with fear, lest the King should punish them in some way for non-compliance.  God's is obeyed by His Creation because of respect and love, not fear.  Now it is said "Fear God and keep His commandments," but the English language is as imprecise as any other human language, and the word "fear" in this context connotes "respect", not terror.  It is only in the last few hundred years that "fear" has lost part of its meaning -- yet the scripture remains as it was originally translated.

 

God said "Let there be light", and there was light.  He didn't force someone to light a candle, upon pain of some punishment.

 

I'm sure you've read D&C 121:34-46.  "Many are called but few are chosen," it says, and why are they not chosen?  Because they attempt to exercise unrighteous dominion like Henry VIII and his fellow monarchs, instead of relying upon persuasion, long-suffering, and love unfeigned.

 

When the scripture speaks of being crowned with glory, and being given thrones, principalities, dominions and kingdoms, it is not to rule with some kind of iron fist.  In "The Weight of Glory" C.S. Lewis wrote: ""It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses, to remember that the dullest and most uninteresting person you talk to may one day be a creature which, if you saw it now, you would be strongly tempted to worship..."  How could someone become a being that might be worthy of worship?  It is by being raised in Glory by God Himself, whose work and glory, as you surely remember, is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of His children.

 

If you should ever be raised to the ultimate reward which God desires to give you, your glory and your rule would proceed forth from your love and worthiness, not from your power to punish.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Stargazer

[chochmah]

Others may have further insight, but consider these as angels:

In Church History and Modern Revelation, volume 3, page 197 by Joseph Fielding Smith, he states that "Thrones" are angels.

Joseph Smith suggests these are classes of angels.  Paul says, "There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differeth from another star in glory.  So also is the resurrection of the dead."  They who obtain a glorious resurrection from the dead, are exalted far above principalities, powers, thrones, dominions and angels, and are expressly declared to be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ, all having eternal power."

Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, selected and arranged by Joseph Fielding Smith [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, published 1976], page 374.

If a principality is a piece of real estate which we inherit, it does not make much sense. Are we not already more than the dirt upon which our feet rest?

Again we have angels linked with these categories in an enumeration, suggesting that the former are a part of the same group as the latter.

See Romans 8:38;

"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,"

Here we see angles linked with two of these classes.

See Ephesians 3:10:

"To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,"

If the principalities and powers are found in heavenly places it would be odd to refer to places in places.

Hugh Nibley, cites an ancient source he finds credible regarding the degrees of angels.  "I could write to you about the mysteries of the heavens, but I am afraid to do so.  It would do you harm.  I am able to understand the orders of the heavens, the degrees of angels, the variations among them, and the differences of dominions, of thrones and powers, and the elevation of the Holy Ghost and the kingdom of the Lord, and the highest of all rules of God over everywhere else.  There is an infinity of hierarchy in the world." Ignatius. (Ignatius is frequently cited by Nibley as a credible early Christian source).  Epistola ad Trallianos (Epistle to the Trallians) 5, in PG 5:665–668. Cited in Hugh W. Nibley, The Message of the Joseph Smith Papyri:  An Egyptian Endowment (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book 1975), page 283.

"There's an infinite hierarchy in the worlds," says the Sefer Yetzira. Sefer Yetzira 1:5, in Akiba ben Joseph, The Book of Formation: Sepher Yetzirah, tr. Knut Stenring (London: Rider, published 1923), 21. Cited in Nibley, Hugh W., Apocryphal Writings and Teachings of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Doctrine & Covenants 132:19 promises those who have received the holy spirit of promise the inheritance of these four classes of angels (and usually they are our guides) and then later in the verse there is a reference to passing by the angels to achieve that very blessing. The next verse says "then shall they be Gods because they have all power and the angels are subject unto them. This context makes clear that these are angels.

The verse in question specifically reads, "And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them — Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths — then shall it be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.

Joseph Fielding Smith in Church History and Modern Revelation volume 3:197-198 writes of angels to be held in reserve and then in the next sentence of thrones powers principalities and dominions being revealed. These are tightly linked.

Origen, the early observer, saw the "gods" as the highest class of rational beings alongside the classes of angels "thrones, dominions, principalities, and authorities of Colosians 1:16, which reads "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him."

[Tacenda]

VGJ, I hope this doesn't derail, do you mind if I ask a question?  Well, I'll ask and hope you'll forgive me if it derails, hope it doesn't.  A few years back our neighbor told my husband that his brother went to the temple and sealed himself to his girlfriend who had just been killed in a car accident.  They were engaged to be married.  I had never heard of that, am I dumb, or is this perfectly normal?