Value In Reallocating Missionaries Away From Heavy Mormon Areas?

[Rain]

At least 2 of the missionaries in our mission were not called here. They were called somewhere else and their visas didn't come through. One of them was a sister missionary in our ward who was called to Brazil. So she has been learning Portuguese on her own for an hour a day for 11 months. She just got sent to Brazil last week.

The other that I know about was a family friend who was called to Australia. We had never heard about missionaries waiting that long for Australia, but we also know his home life and it's possible he didn't really work on them till just before he left or even after.

And those are just 2 that I know about. We understand there are several others.

That doesn't mean that the Lord didn't have something in mind for them here, but maybe the fact that the problems exist ARE partly because they weren't called here.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Rain

[Hamba Tuhan]

By all means send them to us. I begged our mission president to send us another set of Elders six weeks ago, and thankfully he did so, but I was worried that he wouldn't. Right now we have only 14 sets of missionaries in our stake, so our ward certainly has more than our 'fair share' with two sets of Sisters and two sets of Elders. Over the course of the past fortnight, they collectively taught 115 lessons -- just over two lessons per day per companionship. That gives us some room to to move and grow, which we simply didn't have with only one set of Elders.  Every single day I'm grateful that the Lord has generously sent us so many missionaries at this time. After the priesthood leadership session of stake conference today, a counsellor in the stake presidency, my bishop, and I got talking about how to cope when/if missionary numbers drop again, and the thought of it made me sick. My hope is that the drop will be tiny, but if I'm wrong, please remember that we're happy to take any missionaries you're not putting to good use.

[mnn727]

 I am a fierce advocate for door-to-door tracting even today,

 

Even though its been proven that its the worst form of proselyting for getting converts?

The Church is moving away from it. Our missionaries almost never tract since we have been a test area for "Just Serve" 

[Hamba Tuhan]

Literally almost everyone in the neighborhood is LDS, and the neighborhood is the stake they are assigned to.

 

Are we to understand that 100% of the Saints in this stake are active? That the membership includes no part-member families?

[ERayR]

Depending on the area, of course.

My nephew is off in two weeks to the MTC, don't know how long he will be there but eventually he will be in the Marshall Islands, where he will be lucky if he can use email instead of snail mail....and has been told he needs to fish for his own dinner.

 

Fish diet.  Yuck.

[Calm]

Depends on the fish...I actually do best on fish myself...but some does taste pretty bad, especially if not fresh or cooked poorly.

[troublero]

I think sometimes the mission is more for the missionary than those they teach. Then sometimes we forget that being a member is often not enough. We at times need to step back and go back through the basics.

[rameumptom]

In an area the size of a stake, there will be many less actives.  Have the missionaries focus on reactivation when they do not have investigators to teach.  This is also part of their responsibility.  In a stake of 3-4000 members, if even 10% are inactive, they should have 400 people to work with.

[Ahab]

The mission experience for a young person is all about sharing gospel lessons in both words and action, essentially personifying the gospel, and any missionary should be able to do that in any kind of area. And an area with a lot of Church members should have the most members being added over time, with each member a missionary sharing the gospel with those they meet in daily life while personifying the gospel, themselves.

Sometimes the job of a missionary is to teach other members to be missionaries whether they share their message by their words or actions.

[cdowis]

Even though its been proven that its the worst form of proselyting for getting converts?

The Church is moving away from it. Our missionaries almost never tract since we have been a test area for "Just Serve" 

 

 Perhaps that is true in your mission.

 

 In our particular mission, tracting is strongly encouraged, and has been very productive.  But I am talking about the South, and I suspect that things would be very different in the northeastern states or Europe.

[mnn727]

 Perhaps that is true in your mission.

 

 In our particular mission, tracting is strongly encouraged, and has been very productive.  But I am talking about the South, and I suspect that things would be very different in the northeastern states or Europe.

I'm in the South, Texas to be exact.

With most of America having both husband and wife working tracting during the daytime is worthless, Weekends are for getting stuff done for most Americans so again worthless for tracting, that leaves about an hour at night time for any worthwhile tracting. How many houses can you really hit in an hour.

[cdowis]

Sorry to hear it does not work out for your area.  

 

I always thought that missionary work is about giving people to listen to a gospel message, even if they close the door.  But that's just me.

 

Anyway, what exactly do you suggest when an appointment falls thru in the evening.  Help us out here.

Edited August 11, 2014 by cdowis

[jbarm]

Based on my mission experiences I would argue that too many missionaries too close together reduces productivity significantly.

 

I went to Chicago on  my mission, back in the day, and we had up to 16 missionaries in some wards.  Up to three companionships in one apartment (most expensive mission in the US at the time).  Heck, at one point my district consisted of my companion and I and 8 sisters, all in one ward plus the Polish, Korean, Greek and Chinese elders.

 

Results:  

1. Burned out members.  Local members are not going to continuously provide investigators to that many missionaries.  They are also not going to continue to feed them, especially in smaller wards.  We rarely had members provide dinner appointments (less than one a month) because of too many missionaries.

2. Too many young men and women too close together.  Proximity leads to people finding other things to do.  Bowling was popular with some, unfortunately.  Companions who didn't like each other hung out with other missionaries.

3. Tracting was the primary contacting method without the members.  Very hard to do and rather pointless in Chicago.  Probably led to more bowling.

 

Leadership eventually figured out this problem and reduced our mission size and disbursed missionaries to  new areas. I ended up in Missouri, which was a much more hospitable place for a missionary, ironically.

 

At least today's missionaries have service opportunities.  We did service, but it was done informally, infrequently and without any approval from the mission president.

 

Reactivation efforts would have been nice as well.

 

The problem is that the Church is using the old operating model that worked with low missionary density using more missionaries.  The legacy model does not work very well by throwing more missionaries into the mix.

 

I believe more missionaries can lead to less productivity as a result.

[mfbukowski]

I live in Layton and our missionary elders are very busy.  It's been two months since we've had them for dinner.....

I always find them quite tasty.

[mfbukowski]

Depending on the area, of course.

My nephew is off in two weeks to the MTC, don't know how long he will be there but eventually he will be in the Marshall Islands, where he will be lucky if he can use email instead of snail mail....and has been told he needs to fish for his own dinner.

I know a brother who is on my temple shift who has a son in the Marshall Islands.

 

I hope your nephew was a good boy scout because he will have ample opportunities to practice his skills.  He might have to build his own hut as well.

[omni]

Our missionaries are not that busy and struggle. They need to have more service and integration into the ward. For example all eight year olds and youth who are struggling would benefit from the missionary lessons. My teen was struggling and the lessons helped her remarkably. Unfortunately, anything but baptisms seems to be a distant second in importance. Even if you reactivate someone or help someone who is struggling it does not get the response it should. I am a ward missionary and have seen elders who were sitting in their apartment or library doing nothing. There is not much for them to do during the day and they are not allowed to tract in this mission. So much good could be done and instead they drift and I am not sure that we don`t cause them to wonder why they went on a mission.

I hate to say it, but it makes me think that this was not thought out very well. I believe the changing of the age requirement was inspired, but where was the plan to integrate them. We seem to be reacting after the fact and giving the problem lip service, but nothing seems to happen. I have talked to the bishop, stake president, mission president and area authority. They all admit that it is a problem, but nothing changes. Our last two stake conferences have been full of missionary emphasis and about a third of our sacrament meetings and firesides. I don`t understand and am discouraged. Members don`t want to talk about missionary work. We have tried to focus on activities and getting to know people outside of the Church. They will talk to us about that. If we focused on service this would all go so well and have so much potential. I just shake my head.

 

I'm still amazed the leadership of the church hasn't figured this out.  There are a number of very intelligent, dare I say inspired men making these choices, yet I bet your average greenie could tell you service is a much better use of their time during the day time hours.  

 

For me, the four hours of service each week were often a highlight - it was a change of pace from the seemingly endless contacting, it made me feel good, and it often provided teaching opportunities.  One of the largest branches in my mission had about 60-80 active members.  The majority of the branch's converts came from what was the largest and most well-organized English classes in the mission.  

 

Let's face it, when most people see missionaries they outright try to avoid them or at the very least hope they won't be stopped by them.  Imagine the goodwill that would come about if LDS missionaries were better know for service than they were for knocking on doors.

[Calm]

I don't think he has done much scouting, living in Singapore the past few years. Will inform him he may need a hut building skill. He has a great attitude, is not afraid of hard work and is used to heat and humidity so I think he is ahead of the game overall.

[readstoomuch]

Based on my mission experiences I would argue that too many missionaries too close together reduces productivity significantly.

 

I went to Chicago on  my mission, back in the day, and we had up to 16 missionaries in some wards.  Up to three companionships in one apartment (most expensive mission in the US at the time).  Heck, at one point my district consisted of my companion and I and 8 sisters, all in one ward plus the Polish, Korean, Greek and Chinese elders.

 

Results:  

1. Burned out members.  Local members are not going to continuously provide investigators to that many missionaries.  They are also not going to continue to feed them, especially in smaller wards.  We rarely had members provide dinner appointments (less than one a month) because of too many missionaries.

2. Too many young men and women too close together.  Proximity leads to people finding other things to do.  Bowling was popular with some, unfortunately.  Companions who didn't like each other hung out with other missionaries.

3. Tracting was the primary contacting method without the members.  Very hard to do and rather pointless in Chicago.  Probably led to more bowling.

 

Leadership eventually figured out this problem and reduced our mission size and disbursed missionaries to  new areas. I ended up in Missouri, which was a much more hospitable place for a missionary, ironically.

 

At least today's missionaries have service opportunities.  We did service, but it was done informally, infrequently and without any approval from the mission president.

 

Reactivation efforts would have been nice as well.

 

The problem is that the Church is using the old operating model that worked with low missionary density using more missionaries.  The legacy model does not work very well by throwing more missionaries into the mix.

 

I believe more missionaries can lead to less productivity as a result.

The missionary program is broken IMO. I wish I could say differently. It is probably what I struggle with the most in the Church. My wife gets mad at me and asks why The Lord hasn`t called me as the prophet then. I remember trying to do as much service as I could. If I knew what I did now, I would have done much more without asking for permission. When they had the missionary fireside after the age change, Elder Holland said that the missionaries would be using the chapels and the internet to fill their time. I don`t see much of that yet and I know that there is going to be more Facebook missionaries called.

The interesting thing is that almost any other church or organization would find something to do with all of these young people. If you changed the definition of success to something besides baptism (reactivation, service, family history, youth programs, food banks and yes you could still have baptisms as a goal) then keeping the missionaries busy is no longer a problem. I just don`t understand.

[cdowis]

The interesting thing is that almost any other church or organization would find something to do with all of these young people. If you changed the definition of success to something besides baptism (reactivation, service, family history, youth programs, food banks and yes you could still have baptisms as a goal) then keeping the missionaries busy is no longer a problem. I just don`t understand.

 

I think that is happening now;  Member activation and service are important for our missionaries, and they are constantly looking for opportunities.

[Duncan]

I think that is happening now;  Member activation and service are important for our missionaries, and they are constantly looking for opportunities.

 

 

I stress to the missionaries more community based service opportunities and try to stay away from member service opportunities-They get simply taken advantage of and now the Church is reminding us about safety concerns. An example of Missionaries getting taken advantage of comes from a sister missionary friend's blog

 

 

"Friday and Saturday we got to do the WEIRDEST THING! President...gave us permission to help with a Monster Truck Show. The lady who is in charge of it is a member from Oregon called the Church building asking for volunteers and the Bishop said he didn't have many members but he would offer what he could and he had six missionaries who could help. So for two shows I got to be a bouncer taking tickets and trying to smile at the people that were not happy that they couldn't re-enter if they left.Sorry people I am just doing what I am told"

 

to me that is SO CRAZY!!!!! missionaries should have no part of this whatsoever. CHEAP-O members!! and what is more the missionaries in our ward are having to do service on the other side of the city so they burn through KM getting there and now they are complaining they don't have enough to get around their area, so I am going to tell them to ditch that service and stick to something over here

[readstoomuch]

I stress to the missionaries more community based service opportunities and try to stay away from member service opportunities-They get simply taken advantage of and now the Church is reminding us about safety concerns. An example of Missionaries getting taken advantage of comes from a sister missionary friend's blog

 

 

"Friday and Saturday we got to do the WEIRDEST THING! President...gave us permission to help with a Monster Truck Show. The lady who is in charge of it is a member from Oregon called the Church building asking for volunteers and the Bishop said he didn't have many members but he would offer what he could and he had six missionaries who could help. So for two shows I got to be a bouncer taking tickets and trying to smile at the people that were not happy that they couldn't re-enter if they left.Sorry people I am just doing what I am told"

 

to me that is SO CRAZY!!!!! missionaries should have no part of this whatsoever. CHEAP-O members!! and what is more the missionaries in our ward are having to do service on the other side of the city so they burn through KM getting there and now they are complaining they don't have enough to get around their area, so I am going to tell them to ditch that service and stick to something over here

They seemed to get abused, if it is abuse, with helping members and their nonmember neighbors move. My son was helping an investigator move and broke an apparently cheap lamp. He (investigator) said it was very expensive and I tried to get some type of idea of what expensive was, but he won`t return phone calls, so I stopped pushing it. I would still rather them do that than sitting in their apartments. There were sister missionaries living close to our elders last year and one of the elders and sisters got involved romantically. Nothing serious happened apparently. The same missionaries figured out to hack into a wireless system and found a way to watch movies. I don`t know if they got an old laptop or what. I know my cousin got involved with similar activities like than in the 80`s, but it is worse when there is nothing to do. I did figure out why they never followed up on any leads that I gave them, even if there weren`t a bunch of them.

There has to be some more direction from Salt Lake. They keep pushing the members harder for referrals in stake conference (two in a row). I try to talk to my leaders, but they just don`t seem to understand or hear what I am saying. I wish the people in power were watching the missionaries. I know that missionaries can always get into trouble. What I really worry about is a lot more trouble and missionaries who felt like their mission was a waste of their time. I only see them being a waste of their time because we find success as baptisms. The baptisms don`t always have to be solid either. That is the problem with defining success as baptisms. I have said enough for now i suppose.

[Hamba Tuhan]

The interesting thing is that almost any other church or organization would find something to do with all of these young people. If you changed the definition of success to something besides baptism (reactivation, service, family history, youth programs, food banks and yes you could still have baptisms as a goal) then keeping the missionaries busy is no longer a problem. I just don`t understand.

 

It strikes me that you may not have read much of the training or guidelines currently available on the Church's web site. I highly recommend it.

[readstoomuch]

It strikes me that you may not have read much of the training or guidelines currently available on the Church's web site. I highly recommend it.

I read them. I tell the missionaries, but they are told different things by their MP. It is not trickling down yet.

[Hamba Tuhan]

I read them. I tell the missionaries, but they are told different things by their MP. It is not trickling down yet.

 

Hopefully at some point their mission president might actually read his directions! There is simply far too much good to be done. I'm a witness of that. In our ward we've gone from one set of missionaries teaching 0-2 lessons per week to four sets each teaching about 15 lessons per week, and I think we're on the leading edge of this. Earlier tonight I left work early to meet with an investigator by myself since the Elders were already overbooked tonight.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Hamba Tuhan

[Antoni]

Our 6 ward missionaries are busy - I'm pleased to report. 

 

I'm not a huge fan of door to door work, however I do think there is value to them walking around shopping areas and "flying the flag" for the church as it were.

 

I appreciate they need to be in Gospel Principles class when they have investigators, but when they don't I think it'd be good for them to help with Primary / Young people / Other Sunday School classes.  As I think that'd help them integrate into rest of church better (and it can be a bit intimidating having so many missionaries in one class!)

 

I've always believed that the missionary programme is as much for the benefit of the missionaries as well as investigators they teach/meet/baptise.

 

I've also been blessed to have met so many positive examples of diligent and spirit filled and led young men and women.