Critics Accusations Of Financial Improprieties

[omni]

Then why did you go to tithing settlement in the first place?  And why ask for a TR if you object to the TR questions?  

 

I no longer do, however I still get multiple calls from the bishopric requesting me to come to tithing settlement.

[omni]

If you are requesting a pass into the temples of God it is very much the business of the one whose job it is to determine your worthiness.   

 

If the church wants to determine worthiness in such a manner they are certainly in their right..  What I find ironic is we have multiple posts telling those who want financial transparency to mind their own business.  A tithe paying member wanting to know how his tithes are spent is considered a busybody, yet a bishop interviewing him to ensure he wears the right undergarments, ingests the right substances, pays the right amount in tithes, and inquires about possible sexual/moral indiscretions is not considered a busybody.  Go figure...

[Sleeper Cell]

I no longer do, however I still get multiple calls from the bishopric requesting me to come to tithing settlement.

 

And the LDS church gets far more multiple “calls” for its financial information.  A mere brief request made in private is not an invasion of privacy.  At least, your multiple calls are made in private, limited in duration, and essentially only occur once a year.. Nobody is accusing you of trying to hide anything.  Presumably, your bishop does not  try to embarrass you in public for not attending tithing settlement

 

It is not clear what you mean by “multiple calls.“ Do you mean one call a year, or several calls during each December?  Presuming that you tell your bishopric the same thing you told us (this is my business and should be between me and God), I find it hard to believe that a member of the bishopric would  call you more than once per tithing settlement (unless he is an idiot, or so disorganized that he doesn’t keep track of who he has called). On the other hand, it is not necessarily unreasonable for them to privately extend a brief invitation once a year in the hopes that you  have changed your mind. A 30 second phone call inviting you to tithing settlement seems to be a  pretty trivial attempt to stick ones nose into something that you beleive should be between you and God.  Especially since you choose to be a member of the church.

[Tacenda]

And the LDS church gets far more multiple “calls” for its financial information. A mere brief request made in private is not an invasion of privacy. At least, your multiple calls are made in private, limited in duration, and essentially only occur once a year.. Nobody is accusing you of trying to hide anything. Presumably, your bishop does not try to embarrass you in public for not attending tithing settlement

It is not clear what you mean by “multiple calls.“ Do you mean one call a year, or several calls during each December? Presuming that you tell your bishopric the same thing you told us (this is my business and should be between me and God), I find it hard to believe that a member of the bishopric would call you more than once per tithing settlement (unless he is an idiot, or so disorganized that he doesn’t keep track of who he has called). On the other hand, it is not necessarily unreasonable for them to privately extend a brief invitation once a year in the hopes that you have changed your mind. A 30 second phone call inviting you to tithing settlement seems to be a pretty trivial attempt to stick ones nose into something that you beleive should be between you and God. Especially since you choose to be a member of the church.

My bishop before this one's clerk called several times to have us come to tithing settlement. Maybe that's what put a bad taste in my husband's mouth besides his parents giving x amount of dollars to a church trust. When his dad had promised his son's, my husband and his brothers who worked for him, and their dad being a silent partner in the business, told them that if they stayed in the company, it was commercial construction btw, and not go out on their own or make more money going elsewhere, he'd make it worth it. But now the church gets that money, so in my husband's mind the church already has his money or will already get his money. Edited August 10, 2014 by Tacenda

[rodheadlee]

It's absolutely my business, and should be between me and God.  What about the TR questions, are those getting in my business?

it's the bishop's job to do so.

[rodheadlee]

I've stated this before.  I'm not for the LDS church opening their books - solely.  I'm for all non profits to open their books.   

 

 

Tax exempt organizations are asking to be absolved from financially supporting the country.  I think the country should have a right to see proof as to why.  Corruption, intended or unintended can happen anywhere.  

 

Sure, critics will try to pick apart any entity, especially one that has held its secrets so close to the vest for so long.    

 

Can't talk about the Temple.  Is it secret, no it 'sacred'.  Can't talk about financials.  Is it sacred, no it's secret.

That's the job of the IRS not every Tom, Richard and Harry off the street. If we disclose our investments and our investment strategy what's to keep the enemy from attempting to thwart us? or steal from us?

[thesometimesaint]

My bishop before this one's clerk called several times to have us come to tithing settlement. Maybe that's what put a bad taste in my husband's mouth besides his parents giving x amount of dollars to a church trust. When his dad had promised his son's, my husband and his brothers who worked for him, and their dad being a silent partner in the business, told them that if they stayed in the company, it was commercial construction btw, and not go out on their own or make more money going elsewhere, he'd make it worth it. But now the church gets that money, so in my husband's mind the church already has his money or will already get his money.

 

If you are looking for an excuse any will do.

[omni]

And the LDS church gets far more multiple “calls” for its financial information. A mere brief request made in private is not an invasion of privacy. At least, your multiple calls are made in private, limited in duration, and essentially only occur once a year.. Nobody is accusing you of trying to hide anything. Presumably, your bishop does not try to embarrass you in public for not attending tithing settlement

It is not clear what you mean by “multiple calls.“ Do you mean one call a year, or several calls during each December? Presuming that you tell your bishopric the same thing you told us (this is my business and should be between me and God), I find it hard to believe that a member of the bishopric would call you more than once per tithing settlement (unless he is an idiot, or so disorganized that he doesn’t keep track of who he has called). On the other hand, it is not necessarily unreasonable for them to privately extend a brief invitation once a year in the hopes that you have changed your mind. A 30 second phone call inviting you to tithing settlement seems to be a pretty trivial attempt to stick ones nose into something that you beleive should be between you and God. Especially since you choose to be a member of the church.

Well, if you must know - I was initially approached by the clerk in a busy church hallway when he told me (in mid-December) he'd noticed we hadn't signed up for tithing settlement and wanted to see when would be a good time for us. Wanting to avoid a potentially awkward situation in a public setting, I told them we were very busy (which was true) and that I didn't know if we could make it, but if we could I would let him know. I figured he'd get the hint, but he still called and text me three more times trying to set the appointment.

Mind you, this wasn't an appointment to see how many service projects we'd attended that year, or how often we'd read our scriptures, but to know if we'd paid the church the correct amount of money. It's things like this that give critics ammunition when they say the church is a corporation who's number one priority is money. Why not give that time in December back to the overworked Bishop's and ask about tithing in the TR interview, or better yet, leave it between God and the individual.

FWIW, the BP is very aware of my situation due to a "busybody" in the ward.

[Tacenda]

If you are looking for an excuse any will do.

No...you'd have to be there.

[Rain]

Well, if you must know - I was initially approached by the clerk in a busy church hallway when he told me (in mid-December) he'd noticed we hadn't signed up for tithing settlement and wanted to see when would be a good time for us. Wanting to avoid a potentially awkward situation in a public setting, I told them we were very busy (which was true) and that I didn't know if we could make it, but if we could I would let him know. I figured he'd get the hint, but he still called and text me three more times trying to set the appointment.

Mind you, this wasn't an appointment to see how many service projects we'd attended that year, or how often we'd read our scriptures, but to know if we'd paid the church the correct amount of money. It's things like this that give critics ammunition when they say the church is a corporation who's number one priority is money. Why not give that time in December back to the overworked Bishop's and ask about tithing in the TR interview, or better yet, leave it between God and the individual.

FWIW, the BP is very aware of my situation due to a "busybody" in the ward.

I get so frustrated when I am told "I am busy" and it is just a hint for "leave me alone" and other times told the same thing and then people are upset that you didn't get back with them.

I can't read minds. Make it easier on people by not expecting them to read minds. They won't feel like they need to keep contacting you and you can been done with it.

[Tacenda]

I get so frustrated when I am told "I am busy" and it is just a hint for "leave me alone" and other times told the same thing and then people are upset that you didn't get back with them.

I can't read minds. Make it easier on people by not expecting them to read minds. They won't feel like they need to keep contacting you and you can been done with it.

Did you see the part where he said if he wanted to come in he'd let the clerk know?

[ERayR]

Did you see the part where he said if he wanted to come in he'd let the clerk know?

 

Why leave it open ended.  Just say I won't be coming in.  It is less words and leaves no room for misunderstanding.  Clairvoyance is so tiring.

Edited August 11, 2014 by ERayR

[sdc999]

That's the job of the IRS not every Tom, Richard and Harry off the street. If we disclose our investments and our investment strategy what's to keep the enemy from attempting to thwart us? or steal from us?

Unfortunately, the IRS is very limited in scope of what they can look into in regards to a church.  

[ERayR]

Unfortunately, the IRS is very limited in scope of what they can look into in regards to a church.  

 

As it should be.  Even with the perceived and actual abuses government should not have control of churches and the power to tax is the power to control.

[Rain]

Did you see the part where he said if he wanted to come in he'd let the clerk know?

 

Yes I did.  It is why I wrote: I get so frustrated when I am told "I am busy" and it is just a hint for "leave me alone" and other times told the same thing and then people are upset that you didn't get back with them. One thinks they are leaving a hint to leave them alone and the other the hint to contact them later.  

 

Which leaves the clerk in limbo land wondering which it is for that person - if he even understand it is a hint.  Better to say, "I won't be coming in to tithing settlement this year" and then change the subject or  walk off or tell the person in some way that it is their own personal business.  

[Calm]

My memory being what it is, I often forget about telling people I will get back with them (to the point now that I will tell people to call me because I will forget) so I get that a clerk might think it is just the busyness of life or not realising time is passing quickly and that he is being considerate to be the one doing the calling. People don't read minds, I think those who get annoyed because others 'can't take a hint' should put themselves in the position of the other person wondering 'does he want me to call or not'. It can be agonising for some to be in this position if they are introverted or shy.

[Tacenda]

Yes I did. It is why I wrote: I get so frustrated when I am told "I am busy" and it is just a hint for "leave me alone" and other times told the same thing and then people are upset that you didn't get back with them. One thinks they are leaving a hint to leave them alone and the other the hint to contact them later.

Which leaves the clerk in limbo land wondering which it is for that person - if he even understand it is a hint. Better to say, "I won't be coming in to tithing settlement this year" and then change the subject or walk off or tell the person in some way that it is their own personal business.

Not to annoy but did you read the part about the bishop knowing where he stands because of that "busybody"?

[Calm]

It is the clerk making the appts., not the bishop.

[Rain]

Not to annoy but did you read the part about the bishop knowing where he stands because of that "busybody"?

 

Yes. And the bishop did not tell my DH everything so I don't assume that bishops tell their whole bishopric everything.  My assumption would be if the clerk keeps contacting then he must not know.  

[Tacenda]

Del

Edited August 11, 2014 by Tacenda

[thesometimesaint]

No...you'd have to be there.

 

I can only go by what you post. From my perspective it is; Head I win, tails you loose. Either way he isn't paying tithing.

[thesometimesaint]

Unfortunately, the IRS is very limited in scope of what they can look into in regards to a church.  

 

They are purposefully limited to just the money part.

[Johnnie Cake]

Everyone does know that full time GA's do receive free housing, medical, comfortable salary, free tuition for children at church universities, top of the line Toyota aka Avalon or similar with driver, plush special seating at conference, special gourmet buffet served between conference meetings and all the other comforts customary of high level corporate officers Right? 

[thesometimesaint]

Everyone does know that full time GA's do receive free housing, medical, comfortable salary, free tuition for children at church universities, top of the line Toyota aka Avalon or similar with driver, plush special seating at conference, special gourmet buffet served between conference meetings and all the other comforts customary of high level corporate officers Right? 

 

Not real sure I want many of the GA's behind the wheel of a car.

[Tacenda]

I can only go by what you post. From my perspective it is; Head I win, tails you loose. Either way he isn't paying tithing.

I deleted the whole story, some may have read it.  So if you want to say you win and we lose that's fine.  The church won't hurt too badly w/o our tithe for now.