VideoGameJunkie Posted August 8, 2014 Author Posted August 8, 2014 California boy, marriage is not necessary for the Celestial Kingdom, but it is necessary for the top tier and to be exalted. Tacenda, I'm pretty sure once you're assigned a kingdom then it's final for eternity. And I believe during the millennium many families will have a chance to be sealed together so I think there will be a lot of families in the CK. And yes, CK dwellers can visit friends and family in the Terrestrial and Telestial Kingdoms. And people in the Terrestrial can visit people in the Telestial Kingdom. That's what makes making the right choices and having faith and obedience in our earth life so important.
Ahab Posted August 8, 2014 Posted August 8, 2014 Very good point Ahab. I will try to gain more intelligence and more knowledge. Looks like I have some conference talks to watch or books to read.You have all of etetnity, so it's not like there is a rush. Just keep going forward, gaining knowledge and wisdom and intelligence as you can and you will eventually make it.
california boy Posted August 8, 2014 Posted August 8, 2014 California boy, marriage is not necessary for the Celestial Kingdom, but it is necessary for the top tier and to be exalted. Tacenda, I'm pretty sure once you're assigned a kingdom then it's final for eternity. And I believe during the millennium many families will have a chance to be sealed together so I think there will be a lot of families in the CK. And yes, CK dwellers can visit friends and family in the Terrestrial and Telestial Kingdoms. And people in the Terrestrial can visit people in the Telestial Kingdom. That's what makes making the right choices and having faith and obedience in our earth life so important.I don't really care about getting into the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom. From all the posts about how important marriage is to the plan of salvation, it seems like it is ONLY important in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom. So what is the big deal? Why is everyone so obsessed with the importance of marriage to a man and a woman? It is only ONE aspect of the Celestial Kingdom and might not be for all of God's children. He evidently has provided other places for them even in the Celestial Kingdom.
USU78 Posted August 8, 2014 Posted August 8, 2014 I don't really care about getting into the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom. From all the posts about how important marriage is to the plan of salvation, it seems like it is ONLY important in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom. So what is the big deal? Why is everyone so obsessed with the importance of marriage to a man and a woman? It is only ONE aspect of the Celestial Kingdom and might not be for all of God's children. He evidently has provided other places for them even in the Celestial Kingdom. Well . . . there's this: [N]either is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord Don't get hung up on word order: there is no woman in the Lord and there is no man in the Lord unless they two be one. 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted August 8, 2014 Author Posted August 8, 2014 California boy, I hope to be with a companion for eternity and be one with her. I don't want to be a single ministering angel.
california boy Posted August 8, 2014 Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) Well . . . there's this: Don't get hung up on word order: there is no woman in the Lord and there is no man in the Lord unless they two be one.So what do you think that means in regards to all the single people in the Celestial Kingdom? Edited August 8, 2014 by california boy
california boy Posted August 8, 2014 Posted August 8, 2014 California boy, I hope to be with a companion for eternity and be one with her. I don't want to be a single ministering angel.I hope you get your wish.
VideoGameJunkie Posted August 8, 2014 Author Posted August 8, 2014 Thank you! I hope so too. And I hope you get whatever you desire.
USU78 Posted August 8, 2014 Posted August 8, 2014 So what do you think that means in regards to all the single people in the Celestial Kingdom? That Saul/Paul, or whoever wrote the epistle, knew about the 3 degrees of the Celestial Kingdom.
Jeanne Posted August 8, 2014 Posted August 8, 2014 That's only if we're able to progress from kingdom to kingdom. But I don't believe it's been clarified yet. If it is where you can progress, then great. If not, then Jeanne's right, IMO.Thank you Tacenda..maybe in part you can understand what I really mean. I really do understand the plan of salvation according to what I have been taught all my life. I was active..very religious and have great love for the Savior and because I had great love for Joseph Smith, I was so sickened like many others. The love that I was taught was good and pure but always came with conditions. Those of you who have children/grandchildren..would you separate them?? Would you? Do you really think yourFather in Heaven would separate his children? My father thinks so...he does..how sad. He really believes that because I do not attend church each Sunday that I am the devil..I kid you not. Of course, my issues with my father have really nothing other to do with this convo except that this is how people think!! Good people are not good enough?? My religious father told me the other day that those who were in the North Salt Lake mudslide lost their homes because they didn't pay tithing..it is a scary thought that he connects things this way and that is why it is so sad to listen to these conversations. It is just possible people, that God will love us any way ...always and forever without the kingdoms!! My mother stood outside Temple gates because the Bishop said she did not pay full tithing. This woman was the most loving and giving person I have ever known and stood outside those gates and cried because she could not see her youngest married. See..xyz..a loving God would not do those nor expect this. 1
JLHPROF Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 I still tend to think: Top Level - Sealed through marriage Middle Level- Endowed in temple, but not sealed through marriage Lowest Level- Baptized into church, but not endowed or sealed through marriage I would have to disagree - Top Level - (aka Exaltation) is to be sealed in eternal marriage and will therefore be able to have eternal increaseMiddle Level - We don't know the difference between Top and Middle (although the old Polygamy/Monogamy idea does appear) Lowest Level - Endowed but single by choice or unworthiness. VGJ, I understand your reasoning for the lower level, but look at the conclusion of the Endowment what is necessary to merely enter into the Celestial environment. You definitely need your endowment to enter the Celestial.
california boy Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 (edited) That Saul/Paul, or whoever wrote the epistle, knew about the 3 degrees of the Celestial Kingdom. What does that have to do with being single in the Celestial Kingdom? I have no idea why you even connected Paul with my question other than the fact that Paul was single. Maybe you don't have an answer, which is fine. But if you do, I would love to hear your views. Edited August 9, 2014 by california boy
VideoGameJunkie Posted August 9, 2014 Author Posted August 9, 2014 JLHPROF, that is true about the endowment. I had always heard it was baptism that gets you in, but now that you look at the endowment session you could be right. Thankfully I'm endowed, but unfortunately I'm not sealed.
ERayR Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 I don't really care about getting into the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom. From all the posts about how important marriage is to the plan of salvation, it seems like it is ONLY important in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom. So what is the big deal? Why is everyone so obsessed with the importance of marriage to a man and a woman? It is only ONE aspect of the Celestial Kingdom and might not be for all of God's children. He evidently has provided other places for them even in the Celestial Kingdom. Because this Church is concerned with getting its members exalted. If you are satisfied with less than that you do not need the Mormon Church.
Garden Girl Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 My father thinks so...he does..how sad. He really believes that because I do not attend church each Sunday that I am the devil..I kid you not. Of course, my issues with my father have really nothing other to do with this convo except that this is how people think!! Good people are not good enough?? My religious father told me the other day that those who were in the North Salt Lake mudslide lost their homes because they didn't pay tithing..it is a scary thought that he connects things this way and that is why it is so sad to listen to these conversations. It is just possible people, that God will love us any way ...always and forever without the kingdoms!! Hello Jeanne...I find your father's beliefs scary too... and I'm as TBM as they come. I doubt that many on this board think in the extremes that your father does, assuming he thinks as you state, so I don't know that it is accurate for you to use such a broad brush to say that "this is how people think!!" You are right that God will love his children always and forever... so much so that he has given us the Plan of Salvation... Plan of Happiness... so that everyone will receive a degree of glory... For those of us who are members of his Church and Kingdom, it is very plainly layed out in our scriptures for us to learn, study, and teach our children... and we make our choices. For those who have not had an opportunity to learn of Father's plan, they will have the opportunity beyond the veil to hear these things... and again, it will be their choice because at the end of the Millennium when Satan is loosed for a brief time they will choose.I am completely confident that all will be perfect and orderly in God's kingdom... we will be where we are supposed to be... GG 1
Garden Girl Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Because this Church is concerned with getting its members exalted. If you are satisfied with less than that you do not need the Mormon Church. This statement seems extreme ERayR... I can think of those who might not want to be exalted but will be satisfied being in the Celestial Kingdom and serving in whatever capacity and level that they qualify for... but they do need "the Mormon Church," so to speak, for their ordinances... GG 1
california boy Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Because this Church is concerned with getting its members exalted. If you are satisfied with less than that you do not need the Mormon Church.Well that works out perfect, since I am gay. The church only offers me a life with no companionship and none of the valued spousal relationships that are so important to the rest of mankind, only for an eternity being married to a woman. You can imagine how thrilled I am about that idea. Since I have absolutely no interest in both choices, being away from the church is of no consequence. As in this life, I am happy serving Christ in what ever capacity I can. It sounds like I will be able to continue that goal in the next right along all the other single people found in the Celestial Kingdom. Since some of the most incredible people I know are single, I am sure we will all have a great time together away from the walled in section reserved for the married children of God.
Jeanne Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Hello Jeanne...I find your father's beliefs scary too... and I'm as TBM as they come. I doubt that many on this board think in the extremes that your father does, assuming he thinks as you state, so I don't know that it is accurate for you to use such a broad brush to say that "this is how people think!!" You are right that God will love his children always and forever... so much so that he has given us the Plan of Salvation... Plan of Happiness... so that everyone will receive a degree of glory... For those of us who are members of his Church and Kingdom, it is very plainly layed out in our scriptures for us to learn, study, and teach our children... and we make our choices. For those who have not had an opportunity to learn of Father's plan, they will have the opportunity beyond the veil to hear these things... and again, it will be their choice because at the end of the Millennium when Satan is loosed for a brief time they will choose.I am completely confident that all will be perfect and orderly in God's kingdom... we will be where we are supposed to be... GGThanks for your nice reply. I understand the plan of happiness..maybe because I was brought up so strict and unbending is the reason I search for a love without any condtions. Impossible..maybe. But my father, bless is heart, really believes that I am not worthy of anyone's love. Not even my deceased husband..and of course, it is all MY fault. I will cease to get involved here as I know that you guys need to get on with your subject. Thank you, Jeanne
janderich Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Thank you Tacenda..maybe in part you can understand what I really mean. I really do understand the plan of salvation according to what I have been taught all my life. I was active..very religious and have great love for the Savior and because I had great love for Joseph Smith, I was so sickened like many others. The love that I was taught was good and pure but always came with conditions. Those of you who have children/grandchildren..would you separate them?? Would you? Do you really think your Father in Heaven would separate his children? I do not believe it. Nor do I believe that a husband and wife happily married here in mortality will be separated for eternity if they merit a lower kingdom. I believe such a teaching partakes of the philosophies of men, not of God. In order to obtain the highest degree one must obtain the fullness of the powers of the priesthood (D&C 131:2, D&C 128:11). Such power can only be obtained by a husband and wife who have lived the gospel and been sealed up unto eternal life. But this does not mean that others who have not been sealed as husband and wife cannot be with each other in eternity. Nor that they cannot be with their children. However, it does mean that they cannot be added upon. They will not have a continuation of the seeds in eternity.
Tacenda Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Thanks for your nice reply. I understand the plan of happiness..maybe because I was brought up so strict and unbending is the reason I search for a love without any condtions. Impossible..maybe. But my father, bless is heart, really believes that I am not worthy of anyone's love. Not even my deceased husband..and of course, it is all MY fault. I will cease to get involved here as I know that you guys need to get on with your subject. Thank you, JeanneBefore you go, it would be my wish that he listens better to Pres. Uchtdorf and realize that the church leaders make mistakes, and who knows if they currently make mistakes and which doctrines hold and which fall apart, and how he can base his acceptance or love for his own flesh and blood on that sandy surface might make him the one to face the truth come judgement day. Have him read the church essays on LDS.org in gospel topics ASAP!
JLHPROF Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 I do not believe it. Nor do I believe that a husband and wife happily married here in mortality will be separated for eternity if they merit a lower kingdom. I believe such a teaching partakes of the philosophies of men, not of God. In order to obtain the highest degree one must obtain the fullness of the powers of the priesthood (D&C 131:2, D&C 128:11). Such power can only be obtained by a husband and wife who have lived the gospel and been sealed up unto eternal life. But this does not mean that others who have not been sealed as husband and wife cannot be with each other in eternity. Nor that they cannot be with their children. However, it does mean that they cannot be added upon. They will not have a continuation of the seeds in eternity. This is what I like to believe. Sometimes I believe it more than others, but this is what I like to believe.
VideoGameJunkie Posted August 10, 2014 Author Posted August 10, 2014 That may be true, since the whole focus of the church is on Families can be together forever.
Jeanne Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Before you go, it would be my wish that he listens better to Pres. Uchtdorf and realize that the church leaders make mistakes, and who knows if they currently make mistakes and which doctrines hold and which fall apart, and how he can base his acceptance or love for his own flesh and blood on that sandy surface might make him the one to face the truth come judgement day. Have him read the church essays on LDS.org in gospel topics ASAP!I will definitely try. He is 91 and I don't see him seeing the forest for the trees. That being said, how I wish that I could have a heart to heart with him without already be condemned..I would never ask for him to agree..but only to listen.
Tacenda Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 I will definitely try. He is 91 and I don't see him seeing the forest for the trees. That being said, how I wish that I could have a heart to heart with him without already be condemned..I would never ask for him to agree..but only to listen.I often think about my past legalistic mindset when I would judge w/o realizing it, my Jack Mormon dad. Now that he's passed on, I regret always worrying over why he would never crack open the scriptures, or go to the temple, or drank coffee. I wish I had instead been like my 2 non believing sisters who would grow much closer to him than I, maybe because of my preoccupation with my dad and very TBM mom being on the same page/path. I'm guessing your situation is the exact thing but in reverse. I wish the church wouldn't stress so much the temple and it being the only way to be a family in the CK. I don't believe it's ever been more expressed then it is now. I wish Jesus Christ and His ministry were more the main focal point, then maybe your dad could see his daughter, you, and not the church or your level of participation or belief in the church.
VideoGameJunkie Posted August 11, 2014 Author Posted August 11, 2014 Tacenda, interesting point. I look to the temple with hope though. My dad's not a member, so my mom is not sealed together in the temple yet, and I am single, so I am not sealed through marriage yet, but I know of the importance of these temple ordinances to bring us into salvation as eternal families. The church definitely focuses on this a lot.
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