VideoGameJunkie Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 I'm confused how someone could be worthy of the lowest level of the Celestial Kingdom and make the kingdom, but not worthy enough to be in the top of the Celestial Kingdom or the 2nd level. I understand that those in the lower and 2nd level of the Celestial Kingdom are not sealed through marriage, but you can be sealed in the next life if you never got a chance on earth, yet there are many ministering angels who are not exalted. If a member is worthy of the CK, shouldn't they easily go to the top?
Calm Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 It may be more choice than worthiness by that point, perhaps someone doesn't want to marry for example. 2
Garden Girl Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) I'm confused how someone could be worthy of the lowest level of the Celestial Kingdom and make the kingdom, but not worthy enough to be in the top of the Celestial Kingdom or the 2nd level. I understand that those in the lower and 2nd level of the Celestial Kingdom are not sealed through marriage, but you can be sealed in the next life if you never got a chance on earth, yet there are many ministering angels who are not exalted. If a member is worthy of the CK, shouldn't they easily go to the top? It may be more choice than worthiness by that point, perhaps someone doesn't want to marry for example. Take my sister for example... she is inactive and I don't expect her to reactivate... however... she is baptized, confirmed, received the gift of the Holy Ghost, and is sealed into our eternal family. She has never had a real testimony, although she is very much Christian and follows a Messianic Jewish path, but still believes in much of the Church doctrine such as premortal life, the degrees of glory,etc. She has stated she just wants to be a ministering angel because she doesn't want to be married ever...She's older than me, and I plan to outlive her so I can complete her temple ordinances on her behalf. Then, she can choose for herself. Right now she will have no choice... and I don't think she really knows what she wants. Not until she is beyond the veil and has a chance to see how things are. She may want to receive all the blessings... GG- Edited August 3, 2014 by Garden Girl
JLHPROF Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 I'm confused how someone could be worthy of the lowest level of the Celestial Kingdom and make the kingdom, but not worthy enough to be in the top of the Celestial Kingdom or the 2nd level. I understand that those in the lower and 2nd level of the Celestial Kingdom are not sealed through marriage, but you can be sealed in the next life if you never got a chance on earth, yet there are many ministering angels who are not exalted. If a member is worthy of the CK, shouldn't they easily go to the top? Well, we may not accept the requirement for polygamy any longer but the principle behind this teaching is the same - we cannot reject blessings: 1866 -- Brigham Young declares that, " The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy. Others attain unto a glory and may even be permitted to come into the presence of the Father and the Son; but they cannot reign as kings in glory, because they had blessing offered unto them, and they refused to accept them." Those who reject marriage cannot reign as kings (probably because they have no kingdom to reign over). They can enter into someone else's kingdom but not have a kingdom of their own. And as far as we can tell from Matthew 22:30 (For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.) if we reject marriage in this life we are not able to marry after the resurrection because the ordinances belong to this estate. This is different from those who are sealed by proxy since they generally had spouses in this life but were unable to be sealed - they rejected nothing and just need the confirming ordinance. Work for the dead is for those who missed an opportunity, not for those who by choice rejected blessings to decide that they want them.
VideoGameJunkie Posted August 3, 2014 Author Posted August 3, 2014 JLHPROF, what about someone like me, a 28 year old single and I want to be married, but what if I don't find someone in this life? Do I get to find someone in the spirit world before the resurrection happens? And how can polygamy be the only way to become gods if the church doesn't allow polygamy on this earth?
JLHPROF Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 JLHPROF, what about someone like me, a 28 year old single and I want to be married, but what if I don't find someone in this life? Do I get to find someone in the spirit world before the resurrection happens? And how can polygamy be the only way to become gods if the church doesn't allow polygamy on this earth? Yes. If you are worthy of a wife you will be blessed with one before the resurrection. The prophets have all taught this (especially Lorenzo Snow). We will 1000 years of peace to perform sealings, temple work and put in eternal order the family of God in preparation for the final celestialization of the earth and its family. So, yes, if you are worthy AND willing you will receive that blessing. I 100% know and believe that. It is those who God calls to the covenant of marriage, helps find a spouse if you will, and offers the blessing of an eternal family who refuse either the responsibility or to accept the blessing that lose that opportunity. I cannot judge who that will apply to, but the scriptures are clear that it will apply to many. As far as the polygamy thing, that is no longer a doctrine of the Church. Brigham taught it at the time when polygamy was required of man on earth. I only use the quote to point out the restriction against accepting a blessing from God. However, I would say that if God called a man or woman to polygamy now or in the future (millennium) and they refused it the would likewise be under condemnation. We have no right to refuse a blessing offered from God and then expect it to be available at our convenience (the atonement excepted of course).
VideoGameJunkie Posted August 3, 2014 Author Posted August 3, 2014 Well said PROF. That gives me comfort while being single, and motivation to stay worthy and true.
Garden Girl Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 JLHPROF, what about someone like me, a 28 year old single and I want to be married, but what if I don't find someone in this life? Do I get to find someone in the spirit world before the resurrection happens? And how can polygamy be the only way to become gods if the church doesn't allow polygamy on this earth? Elder M. Russell Ballard spoke at Women's Conference with words that I expect apply to men just as well as to women... he assured women (men) that if they were faithful and lived the gospel but were unable to find a mate they need not worry, if they remained faithful and worthy... His words were... "Some women do not have the privilege of marrying or raising children in this life. To the worthy, these blessings will come later." In another conference, Pres Faust also made such a declaration... these declarations, and the fact that my sis hasn't really had a true testimony of the gospel, give me hope for her that she can repent and be eligible to receive blessings. GG
VideoGameJunkie Posted August 3, 2014 Author Posted August 3, 2014 Thanks GG, I hope I can receive those blessings too. I've had some pretty large same sins over and over again that I've had to repent for, but I'm in a good place right now.
strappinglad Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) I was an educator for over 30 years. I had no desire to ' rise' to administrative positions. Dealing with children and the 'odd' parent was OK but to add dealing with other educators and administrators and board members and the duffi at the state and federal level would have proved my undoing. I knew myself and rejected promotion. I don't think that to reject marriage will result in a condemnation, rather, it will place one firmly where one wants to be. I just hope heaven is not like the mortal corporations where a person often is promoted one level above his competence. Edited August 3, 2014 by strappinglad 1
JAHS Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 Yes. If you are worthy of a wife you will be blessed with one before the resurrection. The prophets have all taught this (especially Lorenzo Snow). We will 1000 years of peace to perform sealings, temple work and put in eternal order the family of God in preparation for the final celestialization of the earth and its family. So, yes, if you are worthy AND willing you will receive that blessing. I 100% know and believe that. It is those who God calls to the covenant of marriage, helps find a spouse if you will, and offers the blessing of an eternal family who refuse either the responsibility or to accept the blessing that lose that opportunity. I cannot judge who that will apply to, but the scriptures are clear that it will apply to many. As far as the polygamy thing, that is no longer a doctrine of the Church. Brigham taught it at the time when polygamy was required of man on earth. I only use the quote to point out the restriction against accepting a blessing from God. However, I would say that if God called a man or woman to polygamy now or in the future (millennium) and they refused it the would likewise be under condemnation. We have no right to refuse a blessing offered from God and then expect it to be available at our convenience (the atonement excepted of course).I think Plural marriage is still considered a doctrine of the church although God does not require us to live it at this time. But if it were not still a doctrine then why can men be sealed to more than one woman now but a woman must get a cancellation of her first sealing before she can be sealed to someone else?
Calm Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 Woman can be sealed to more than one man at death and exceptions are being made to allow multiple sealings with widows.
JLHPROF Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 I think Plural marriage is still considered a doctrine of the church although God does not require us to live it at this time. But if it were not still a doctrine then why can men be sealed to more than one woman now but a woman must get a cancellation of her first sealing before she can be sealed to someone else? Ok, to be accurate it is still a doctrine of the Church, but Brigham's statement about it being required for exaltation is no longer accepted doctrine.
JAHS Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) Ok, to be accurate it is still a doctrine of the Church, but Brigham's statement about it being required for exaltation is no longer accepted doctrine.Agreed. It was a requirement for them at the time, but not for us now. Edited August 3, 2014 by JAHS
VideoGameJunkie Posted August 3, 2014 Author Posted August 3, 2014 If a woman gets a cancellation sealing on a deceased husband, then who is that husband sealed to?
JAHS Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 If a woman gets a cancellation sealing on a deceased husband, then who is that husband sealed to? She doesn't get a cancellation for a deceased husband. She can get married "for time only" in the temple to someone else. Her first husband is still sealed to her.
JLHPROF Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) If a woman gets a cancellation sealing on a deceased husband, then who is that husband sealed to? She doesn't get a cancellation for a deceased husband. She can get married "for time only" in the temple to someone else. Her first husband is still sealed to her. Sealing cancellations do occur in order to allow the woman to be sealed to a new husband for eternity. Therefore the first husband is theoretically sealed to nobody. But there are two principles to remember:1. The prophets tell us you cannot rob the dead.2. No woman will be forced to stay with a husband not of her choosing (there are temple principles and higher ordinances that show us that). So God will have to work out these conflicting principles. Edited August 3, 2014 by JLHPROF
Garden Girl Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 Thanks GG, I hope I can receive those blessings too. I've had some pretty large same sins over and over again that I've had to repent for, but I'm in a good place right now.There's two scriptures VGJ, that I cling to... D&C 58:42... "Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more." Isaiah 1:18... "Come now, let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they hall be as wool." I have found comfort in these scriptures... they are right from the Lord. GG
Garden Girl Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 Sealing cancellations do occur in order to allow the woman to be sealed to a new husband for eternity. I personally have known two women who have had sealings cancelled who have gone on to be sealed to a new husband. They leave the sealing in place until such time as that woman is approved for the cancellation and new marriage. GG
Calm Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 And as I mentioned above we are now getting to hear of widows being sealed a second time without a cancellation (I know personally of one case) and the wording saying a woman will choose between husbands has been removed from the Church Handbook.What that means for women or men is unknown.
JLHPROF Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 And as I mentioned above we are now getting to hear of widows being sealed a second time without a cancellation (I know personally of one case) and the wording saying a woman will choose between husbands has been removed from the Church Handbook.What that means for women or men is unknown. I think the bigger question is what it means for "eternal family" as taught as one of the pillars of Church doctrine. If I can be sealed to 3 wives and each wife can be sealed to 3 husbands who in turn have 3 wives and we can all have children together, well, you can see the confusion it would bring to God's kingdom of order. And family would cease to mean anything beyond membership in one giant sealed mass of people who can all reproduce with each other...
Calm Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) A lot of people feel that way about a man being able to have more than one wife. They see it as diminishing the idea of a family not to have two unique parents to each one.If a perfect society can handle a family with more than one mother, I suspect it can handle an interwoven network of parents as well as not.We are all sealed to each other one way or the other. Given I am as eternal as my parents, it makes no sense that the sealing in some way establishes their authority over me simply because I was born later. What sealings mean IMO will be a lot different and more meaningful than what we can imagine here. We will be family, but parent/child relationships when mortality is long past will, again IMO, be closer to sibling since the real family bond is as children of God.I personally don't see much difference between your scenario and one where one man can reproduce with thousands or even millions of women theoretically. Edited August 3, 2014 by calmoriah
VideoGameJunkie Posted August 3, 2014 Author Posted August 3, 2014 It must feel horrible though if you're a husband and you die, and then your wife cancels your sealing. That must be a slap in the face.
Calm Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 And it often breaks the woman's heart too so it hardly makes sense that is a choice God would force women to make, but not men, right?
JAHS Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) It must feel horrible though if you're a husband and you die, and then your wife cancels your sealing. That must be a slap in the face.I can't believe this happens too often. I can only imagine that if the previous husband went totally inactive and was abusive to his spouse that she would want to have the sealing canceled after he died, so she could marry a more worthy person. Edited August 3, 2014 by JAHS
Recommended Posts