JLHPROF Posted July 16, 2014 Posted July 16, 2014 Please explain. Well, to be frank, the Church denounced it and Fairmormon (http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Office_of_the_Holy_Ghost) posted a somewhat limited and slightly biased article against it, but since we are talking purely personal speculation I personally find the idea more doctrinally logical than most other speculation on the Holy Ghost gaining a body. And apparently I am not alone according to the article. Even Brigham and Orson tried to tap dance their way out of it when too many members started believing it but the belief still pops its head up in the Church from time to time. But if you want an referenced explanation for the totally harmless speculation that I favor over the other totally harmless speculations: Joseph taught that:"Everlasting covenant was made between three personages before the organization of this earth, and relates to their dispensation of things to men on the earth; these personages, according to Abraham's record, are called God the first, the Creator; God the second, the Redeemer; and God the third the witness or Testator." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 190.) So the third member of the Godhead would have to fill a witness or testator role just as Christ was the redeemer and HF was the creator. The third would likely be the witness or testator of them both. What did Joseph do at the first vision that nobody has ever recorded before or since in the history of the earth? He witnessed HF & Jesus together. D&C 135 also places Joseph second only to Christ and calls him the Testator. Who else could be more qualified for the title? add to that Joseph Smith taught that during his life the HG was working out his probation, the term commonly used for mortality, and would likely have to give up his life as the Savior did."The Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has." (Joseph Smith, The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245; Sabbath address, Nauvoo, 27 August 1843. Reported by Franklin D. Richards.) and "Would to God, brethren, I could tell you who I am! would to God I could tell you what I know! but you would call it blasphemy, and there are men on this stand who would want to take my life." Joseph Smith; Life of Heber C. Kimball, p.33 and "When I am called at the trump of the archangel and weighed in the balance, you will all know me then." - KFD
JLHPROF Posted July 16, 2014 Posted July 16, 2014 It is likely that the Holy Ghost is one of Heavenly Father's spirit children, and when the duties performed by Him are no longer needed than He will receive a body and continue on in His eternal progression. Joseph Smith once said that, "The Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and is waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did."[Joseph Smith, Encyclopedia of Joseph Smith's Teachings, edited by Larry E. Dahl and Donald Q. Cannon (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1997)]and;"The Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has." (Joseph Smith, The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245; Sabbath address, Nauvoo, 27 August 1843. Reported by Franklin D. Richards.) If Joseph is right about this then it makes sense that the Holy Ghost is a spirit son of God the Father. I found another quote teaching that the HG is a son of HF. Heber C. Kimball taught: "Well, let me tell you, the Holy Ghost is a man; he is one of the sons of our Father and our God; and he is that man that stood next to Jesus Christ, just as I stand by brother Brigham" (JD 5:179).
janderich Posted July 16, 2014 Posted July 16, 2014 Heber C. Kimball taught: "Well, let me tell you, the Holy Ghost is a man; he is one of the sons of our Father and our God; and he is that man that stood next to Jesus Christ, just as I stand by brother Brigham" (JD 5:179).The truth is in this statement. The next question we should ask is who stood next to Christ in the premortal world? From that answer a sincere honest seeker can chase the questions and answers all the way back until he knows. But I believe this answer will be received by the testimony of the spirit or not at all.
JLHPROF Posted July 16, 2014 Posted July 16, 2014 Heber C. Kimball taught: "Well, let me tell you, the Holy Ghost is a man; he is one of the sons of our Father and our God; and he is that man that stood next to Jesus Christ, just as I stand by brother Brigham" (JD 5:179).The truth is in this statement. The next question we should ask is who stood next to Christ in the premortal world? From that answer a sincere honest seeker can chase the questions and answers all the way back until he knows. But I believe this answer will be received by the testimony of the spirit or not at all. If you're going to say it's Lucifer, I might just have to bop you on the nose... The person that stood next to Christ in the premortal world AFTER the council and the casting out would have been Joseph Smith in my opinion. I suppose a good argument could also have been made for Peter or John the Baptist.
Brian 2.0 Posted July 16, 2014 Posted July 16, 2014 If you're going to say it's Lucifer, I might just have to bop you on the nose...The person that stood next to Christ in the premortal world AFTER the council and the casting out would have been Joseph Smith in my opinion. I suppose a good argument could also have been made for Peter or John the Baptist.Or Mary Magdalene... if you believe the doctrine of Saturday's Warrior.
JLHPROF Posted July 16, 2014 Posted July 16, 2014 Or Mary Magdalene... if you believe the doctrine of Saturday's Warrior. Oh, but Mary Magdalene was just ONE of Christ's wives. They wouldn't play favorites would they.... 1
JLHPROF Posted July 17, 2014 Posted July 17, 2014 Or Michael Oh, but Michael is Adam and has already been to earth. If he was the HG then D&C 130 would be false.
Brian 2.0 Posted July 17, 2014 Posted July 17, 2014 The personage of the HG can only be in one place at one time, correct?With the amount of spiritual experiences happening simultaneously that would mean the HG has some other means of testifying truth than the personage actually dwelling within us. Does that other method work just as well for confirming truth? And would you need to NOT have a body to do that other method? What is the difference between the personage dwelling within us and this other method?
janderich Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 The personage of the HG can only be in one place at one time, correct?With the amount of spiritual experiences happening simultaneously that would mean the HG has some other means of testifying truth than the personage actually dwelling within us.Does that other method work just as well for confirming truth? And would you need to NOT have a body to do that other method? What is the difference between the personage dwelling within us and this other method?Yes the HG can only be in one place at a time. But there is also something related but different sometimes called "spirit" or the power of the HG, or gift of the HG, or light of Christ. Spirit is a "substance" which is all around us. By spirit God is omnipotent and omnipresent. Through spirit he governs all his works. As we tap into, or tune ourselves to the spirit, we grow in power, light, and knowledge. Here is how Bruce. R. McConkie describes it: There is a difference between the Holy Ghost and the gift of the Holy Ghost," the Prophet taught. (HC 4:555) The Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit; the gift of the Holy Ghost is the right to receive the companionship and association of the Spirit, together with all the spiritual graces and blessings reserved for the faithful. The Holy Ghost is properly referred to as "he," the gift of the Holy Ghost as "it. (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, pp.256-257)Widtsoe, Parley P. Pratt, and others also distinguish between the two.
teddyaware Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) I think the Holy Ghost is female.Must be a transgender, then, because He's consistently referred to in the scriptures as a He. There's a thread on this forum on the subject of transgender that might be worth a look. Edited July 18, 2014 by teddyaware
Coreyb Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 Oh, but Michael is Adam and has already been to earth. If he was the HG then D&C 130 would be false. Oh, but Michael is Adam and has already been to earth. If he was the HG then D&C 130 would be false.not really, if he is Adam and Adam is dead, then he is a spirit again
JLHPROF Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 not really, if he is Adam and Adam is dead, then he is a spirit again Not if he's been resurrected.
VideoGameJunkie Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 I assume Adam and everyone who died before Jesus has been resurrected already.
Garden Girl Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 We have no revelation on the subject. I've enjoyed reading this thread... and the various points... but, as TSS says, we have no revelation... therefore everything posited is simply speculation... interesting to read though it be... Some of our early leaders gave their view... but unless I've missed something, there is no revelation to confirm any position. GG 1
Calm Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 I assume Adam and everyone who died before Jesus has been resurrected already.Only the righteous, I believe. Those who do not repent (the "unjust") have to wait til the end of the millennium, iirc. 1
janderich Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 I've enjoyed reading this thread... and the various points... but, as TSS says, we have no revelation... therefore everything posited is simply speculation... interesting to read though it be... Some of our early leaders gave their view... but unless I've missed something, there is no revelation to confirm any position. GGWe need to receive personal revelation for ourselves. Isn't this how all significant gospel truths are received? It is a valuable and important question. No one should be satisfied with simply saying it has not been revealed by our leaders. Such statements stifle investigation. 1
Garden Girl Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 We need to receive personal revelation for ourselves. Isn't this how all significant gospel truths are received? It is a valuable and important question. No one should be satisfied with simply saying it has not been revealed by our leaders. Such statements stifle investigation. Hello janderich...That's fine to a point, but personal revelation isn't doctrinal and in essence is still our own opinion. I'm not suggesting at all that we don't seek to receive light... but if I want something formal, like whether the HG is a child of Heavenly Father, I'm going to rely on our leaders, and not on just anyone's personal "revelation." And no, I don't agree that personal revelation is how all significant gospel truths are received... but we can and should strive for a confirmation through personal revelation of a significant gospel truth from our leaders. GG 3
janderich Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 Hello janderich...That's fine to a point, but personal revelation isn't doctrinal and in essence is still our own opinion. I'm not suggesting at all that we don't seek to receive light... but if I want something formal, like whether the HG is a child of Heavenly Father, I'm going to rely on our leaders, and not on just anyone's personal "revelation." And no, I don't agree that personal revelation is how all significant gospel truths are received... but we can and should strive for a confirmation through personal revelation of a significant gospel truth from our leaders. GGRevelation is not opinion, it is truth revealed to us from God through the Holy Ghost. I, like you, would not rely on another's revelation but would receive it for myself. That is what I am saying. We receive revelation to know Joseph Smith was a prophet, the Book of Mormon is true, etc. then why not receive revelation on this topic?
DBMormon Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 I heard in Institute once that the possibility of what the Holy Ghost is, would be a spirit that hasn't been born yet that could be a future savior of another world.speculative idea with absolutely no grounding in any Doctrine or even a teaching by a past leader.... it has no basis at all
DBMormon Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 Some have said that Adam is the Holy Ghost. (Which would kind of explain the Adam God doctrine.) There definitely hasn't been revelation on it though, and I don't think Brigham Young's anomaly is enough to make one believe that. Just an interesting thing to think about.CFR - who are the some? again this also has no basis in anything we have been taught. please provide a source that is authoritative in some respect (at least a leader offering speculation)
DBMormon Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 That's one plausible possibility. Another idea I have heard is that a child of either our Father or our Lord is called to serve in a calling that does the work the "Holy Ghost" does and the calling is and has been given to more than one person, but one at a time. And another idea I have heard is that it could be one of the 1/3 who were cast out with Satan, and maybe even the first son of our Father to become Satan himself, but who has since repented and is righteously serving for our Father, but has yet to receive, if he ever will receive, a resurrected body.CFR for any of these speculative ideas... please show me some one in any kind of authority of apostle or above sharing such?
DBMormon Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 I have heard on good record that the Holy Ghost was once a dinosaur but that he evolved into a frog (white of course) and turned into smoke and mirrors. This thread has been based completely around unfounded ideas that wack seminary teachers and High Priests groups have invented.
Garden Girl Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 Revelation is not opinion, it is truth revealed to us from God through the Holy Ghost. I, like you, would not rely on another's revelation but would receive it for myself. That is what I am saying. We receive revelation to know Joseph Smith was a prophet, the Book of Mormon is true, etc. then why not receive revelation on this topic? Perhaps "opinion" is not the best word... That Joseph Smith was a prophet is a tenet, or doctrine, of the Church, and I prayed to know if that was true and received a confirmation that this was true through personal revelation by the Spirit... the Book of Mornon is a tenet of the Church and I prayed to know if it was true and received a confirmation of its truth through personal revelation by the Spirit. These are formal tenets put forth by our leaders that I sought to confirm for myself.The status of the Holy Ghost is ambiguous, with no formal position, or doctrine (revelation), of our Church leaders as a starting point... so if I pray to know what that status is, from among the numerous speculative possibilities like expressed in this thread, or from my own personal leaning, bias, opinion, preference, mental state, etc., is whatever answer I receive a reliable significant gospel truth... seems to me this is how some of the offshoot groups formed. Granted, there are some statements by past leaders that I do not agree with... for instance, the age of the earth... but these types of things don't affect me eternally.. nor does the possible identity or status of the Holy Ghost... so I can hold whatever personal opinion I want... GG
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