danielwoods Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 It seems the bible thinks this too. I find no evidence for a "God species" in the biblical text. I'm curious where you see it?
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) I find no evidence for a "God species" in the biblical text. I'm curious where you see it? When the scriptures tell us that we are the offsrping of God, that to you is what? Just a metaphor? There is and has been quite a bit of discussion on Palsms and Deuteronomy and some of the reforms to make it sound monotheistic. A lot of talk in there about the Sons of God. And the words used make those sons the same type as God. Edited July 8, 2014 by Mola Ram Suda Ram
danielwoods Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 When the scriptures tell us that we are the offsrping of God, that to you is what? Just a metaphor? There is and has been quite a bit of discussion on Palsms and Deuteronomy and some of the reforms to make it sound monotheistic. A lot of talk in there about the Sons of God. And the words used make those sons the same type as God. Yes a metaphor. When Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I AM" the jews listening picked up stones to stone him. Why? Because he a mere man claimed to be God almighty. The statement, "I AM" indicates not only a reference to what God told Moses to call him, but also to the fact that God is the only self-existent being in existence anywhere. At least according to the Bible. So, back to the topic here about species of God. If we aren't a self-existant being (we are reliant on God) to start with, then by definition we wouldn't ever become one even if we are adopted as sons by God himself.
thesometimesaint Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Yes a metaphor. When Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I AM" the jews listening picked up stones to stone him. Why? Because he a mere man claimed to be God almighty. The statement, "I AM" indicates not only a reference to what God told Moses to call him, but also to the fact that God is the only self-existent being in existence anywhere. At least according to the Bible. So, back to the topic here about species of God. If we aren't a self-existant being (we are reliant on God) to start with, then by definition we wouldn't ever become one even if we are adopted as sons by God himself. The Bible confirms it. Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 1
danielwoods Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 The Bible confirms it. Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: If man can live forever *dependent* on God, that does not make a self-existent being, does it?
mfbukowski Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 In thinking about this, it seems to me that this concept only works if you first believe that there is a "God species" and that we are apart of that species. Yep.Welcome to Mormonism. We are made in God's image because we are of the same species. 3
mfbukowski Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 If man can live forever *dependent* on God, that does not make a self-existent being, does it? It depends on what you mean by "self-existent". If God is self existent what about the other persons in the Trinity? If there are three persons, how is each of them "self-existent"? Does the Holy Spirit "proceed" from the Father and Son? And where in the bible does it say "self-existent" or is that an interpretation and construction of men? 2
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 If man can live forever *dependent* on God, that does not make a self-existent being, does it? Gonna throw a wrench into your whole thing, but in the LDS religion we are taught that we are eternal beings just as God is. BTW, self existent is not something that is found in the bible. Oh well. 1
Ahab Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Did Heavenly Father go through his own life, making mistakes, dealing with challenges, repenting, doing temple ordinances during his life, etc to become God? Through exaltation we can live as God lives, but did God live as we live? He lived either as we do or as Jesus did.There are no other viable possibilities. 1
mfbukowski Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 YesWell, a dramatic answer and I of course agree that testimony goes before science in religious matters. But there is no reason one cannot have a testimony which is also coherent with science, and that is what I have. Kind of like- dare i say- evolution.
Kenngo1969 Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 I hate to channel Bill Clinton, but it depends on what the meaning of the word as is.
Ahab Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Apart of this question is the more basic question of how? How does Theosis happen? By way of analogy, a person is born a baby, and grows each day by the process of intake of food, which is metabolized by the body, and we grow into adults. So, the question is what makes a person grow into a god? Is there another God overseeing the whole process?First understand that the word God has several different meanings which are all true.1: a kind of being, consisting of persons, such that any person who is that kind of being is God.a: a word we use to refer to our Father in heaven.b: a word we use to refer to Jesus, aka Jehovahc: a word we use to refer to the Holy Spirit.And it works the same way when referring to any other person who is the same kind of being either one of them, and all of them, are.The next step is to understand the fact that we are literally children of our Father in heaven and as such we are already the same kind of being he is, just as we are also the same kind of being as anyone else who is the same kind of being he is. Whether we are good or evil. Whether we are sinful or totally righteous. Whatever our condition or degree of perfection toward good or evil we are already God, and we became such when we became his children.Now all you need to know is where babies come from when coming from our kind of being, and then you'll know how it is done.
danielwoods Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Gonna throw a wrench into your whole thing, but in the LDS religion we are taught that we are eternal beings just as God is. BTW, self existent is not something that is found in the bible. Oh well. Indeed it is. The I AM. It depends on what you mean by "self-existent". If God is self existent what about the other persons in the Trinity? If there are three persons, how is each of them "self-existent"? Does the Holy Spirit "proceed" from the Father and Son? And where in the bible does it say "self-existent" or is that an interpretation and construction of men? The nature of God is three persons co-eternal. Our descriptions of their relationship correspond to (sorry there's that word) what we can understand within the context of relationships. It's all interpretation and who you trust. Yep.Welcome to Mormonism. We are made in God's image because we are of the same species. We are made in God's image by his speaking it. Can an infinite God create another infinite God?
Stone holm Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 DanielWoods, not according to Mormonism. God is not infinite in the sense that he occupies my space, and God's will in the sense of His making us just be saying "let there be" -- doesn't work for us.
Vance Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) Indeed it is. The I AM.That is one translation of the Hebrew. There are others that provide different insights. But none of them require it to mean "self existent". The nature of God is three persons co-eternal.What do you mean by "nature"? Our descriptions of their relationship correspond to (sorry there's that word) what we can understand within the context of relationships.That explains why we can NOT understand the trinity. It doesn't correspond (there is that word) to anything we can understand within the context of relationships. Thanks, you have cleared up a few things for me. It's all interpretation and who you trust.Yup, whether we trust some White European of the reformation period, or the true and living God. We are made in God's image by his speaking it.Ok. So? Can an infinite God create another infinite God?And if He can't does that mean that He is not omnipotent? It is another one of self contradictions found in your theology. Your God is incapable of reproduction and therefore is NOT omnipotent like you believe Him to be. Edited July 8, 2014 by Vance 1
JLHPROF Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Indeed it is. The I AM. How does this make Jehovah (the Lord God/I AM) self-existent? There is nothing in the Bible indicating such. The nature of God is three persons co-eternal. Our descriptions of their relationship correspond to (sorry there's that word) what we can understand within the context of relationships. It's all interpretation and who you trust. I trust the scriptures and the prophets. Neither of them support your definition of God, at least that I can see. We are made in God's image by his speaking it. Our mortal bodies were somewhat formed in that manner. (God commands elements and watches till he is obeyed). But that doesn't address our spiritual creation. Can an infinite God create another infinite God? Of course. The question is the method - all species reproduce themselves. It was God's first commandment to man and beast to multiply and replenish. God would be the loneliest, saddest, most pitable being in all existence if he was the only one of his kind. Fortunately, there are countless Gods in the heavens, but only one God over us. But if you don't believe in Mormonism, why would it matter to you what we believe? 1
Vance Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 DanielWoods, not according to Mormonism. God is not infinite in the sense that he occupies my space, and God's will in the sense of His making us just be saying "let there be" -- doesn't work for us.The problem started when they decided that their God must have the attributes of "Omni" de jour.
Guest Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Did Heavenly Father go through his own life, making mistakes, dealing with challenges, repenting, doing temple ordinances during his life, etc to become God? Through exaltation we can live as God lives, but did God live as we live?We do not know, we know what Christ did and Christ said, "all that I do I see the Father do"...and "I doeth nothing of myself, but the father doeth". There are other examples that give rise to remarks in the King Follet Discourse, which has not nor never will be canonized.
JLHPROF Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 give rise to remarks in the King Follet Discourse, which has not nor never will be canonized. Which is unfortunate, but doesn't make it less true.
Guest Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Which is unfortunate, but doesn't make it less true.How could the truth be unfortunate?
thesometimesaint Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 If man can live forever *dependent* on God, that does not make a self-existent being, does it? We were not dependent on God for our intelligence to have existed from all eternity.
JLHPROF Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 How could the truth be unfortunate? It's unfortunate that it will never be canonized.
thesometimesaint Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 It's unfortunate that it will never be canonized. Never is a long time even for me, But conditions are now such that it probably won't be anytime soon. That will require more Revelation from God.
Guest Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 It's unfortunate that it will never be canonized.I disagree, and time suggests wisdom in not do so. It is too far reaching with so little scriptural support. There is a process that this "sermon" does not meet the condition to become canon.
Tacenda Posted July 9, 2014 Posted July 9, 2014 How could the truth be unfortunate?Seeing the reanactment of the KFD last summer in Nauvoo, they must believe it's a doctrine. Or that would be spreading false doctrine wouldn't it?
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