Here's Your Chance To Request Your Own Disciplinary Council

[JAHS]

Strangers In Zion

 

"The recent wave of church discipline facing prominent Mormons who have advocated for change within the LDS Church has caused many members to who hold similar views and beliefs to request their own disciplinary councils.

 

The members being disciplined include Kate Kelly, the founder of the Ordain Women movement, John Dehlin, a prolific writer, researcher, podcaster, and leader in the online LDS community and Alan “Rock” Waterman a prominent blogger at The Pure Mormonism blog.

 

In response they are organizing a grass roots movement called “Strangers In Zion,” and are calling upon thousands of Church members to send in requests to their local Church leaders for disciplinary councils"

 

http://fox13now.com/2014/06/24/kate-kelly-plans-to-appeal-excommunication-decision/

 

Prepare your own request for disciplinary council here:

http://strangersinzion.org/

 

I hope this is meant to be a very big joke.

 

[The Nehor]

Truly a miracle. Here I thought God would have to bundle the tares to be burned and here they are bundling themselves and rushing to the bonfire. A real time-saver for us. Not sure Satan has thought this through.

[frank_jessop]

Great job in providing that site free advertizing.

[DonBradley]

The General Authorities have obviously had their fears that mass apostasy is afoot. If I wanted to absolutely prove to them that their fears were valid, I would stage protests on Temple Square, seek maximum media attention for these, set up my own "six discussions," modeled on the church's proselytizing efforts, to make sure they think I'm proselytizing other members, and, for the coup de grace, try to mess with the church disciplinary system and tell them that if they are going to excommunicate my "leaders" (i.e., the leaders of the protest movements), they need to excommunicate me too.

 

If that didn't send the message loud and clear, nothing would.

 

 

[Edit: In saying this, I should add that the events described above were not all orchestrated by the same person or persons. I have it on solid authority that this site was NOT created by the persons being called in for disciplinary councils.]

Edited June 25, 2014 by DonBradley

[halconero]

They're inviting people to essentially cancel their covenants and using temple language to get stories of them doing so. The devil is in the works.

[sjdawg]

I have to say I don't understand this movement.  I don't go to church or believe in Mormonism anymore but what is to be gained by requested a disciplinary council?   seems pointless

[watermelongirl]

I find this horrifying. Does anyone have any real information about who started the group? The news article links Kelly, but it is not consistent with her statements up to now. She's appealing her decision and has told people many times to stay.

[CV75]

I hope this is meant to be a very big joke.

Since it is easier to voluntarily give up one's temple recommend or level of participation or even to write a letter of resignation from the Church, I wonder what such a request is supposed to accomplish, and what the "stranger" is to do if the response to the request is in the manner expected.

[watermelongirl]

I wonder what such a request is supposed to accomplish, and what the "stranger" is to do if the response to the request is in the manner expected.

Perhaps they somehow hope to highlight discrepancies in how the cases are handled. One bishopric might ex a particular woman and another might find that no action is best. Or perhaps they hope to highlight the gender inequalities in the discipline system. Women alone in the room with the men...priesthood holders have to be escalated to the stake for excommunication, etc.

[CV75]

Perhaps they somehow hope to highlight discrepancies in how the cases are handled. One bishopric might ex a particular woman and another might find that no action is best. Or perhaps they hope to highlight the gender inequalities in the discipline system. Women alone in the room with the men...priesthood holders have to be escalated to the stake for excommunication, etc.

I'm sure it's to flaunt the process to the public with a particular spin. Hopefully the faithful members can respond as an opportunity to educate and enlighten!

[rameumptom]

There is a name given under the News release: Micah Nickolaisen and a phone number for the Arizona area.  I'm thinking that this will help us find out who the Tares are.  Isn't technology awesome?

[watermelongirl]

I'm sure it's to flaunt the process to the public with a particular spin. Hopefully the faithful members can respond as an opportunity to educate and enlighten!

I don't believe the process is as good as it could be for women. I am hoping for inspired changes to the system very soon. Based on my own experiences and the anecdotes of others, I believe that YW leaders (for teenagers) or RS leaders should be in the room for women in many if not all cases, perhaps at the discretion of the accused.

 

Despite this belief, I would never want anyone to sacrifice their membership to prove this point.

[watermelongirl]

There is a name given under the News release: Micah Nickolaisen and a phone number for the Arizona area.  I'm thinking that this will help us find out who the Tares are.  Isn't technology awesome?

Statements like this aren't very becoming of one who calls himself "wheat."

[mfbukowski]

Outside Utah, the church is a refuge FROM dissidents like this. In the world of converts, we know how to vote with our feet and switch churches if we disagree, without grief or turmoil.

Go figure. High school rebellion against papa. Teenage angst on steroids.

Edited June 25, 2014 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

Incidentally, disagreeing with "doctrine" doesn't qualify you for a dc.

Heck, if it did, there would be no members. Remember the letter even said it was ok to disagree, just not teach your unauthorized opinions.

[JAHS]

I'm sure it's to flaunt the process to the public with a particular spin. Hopefully the faithful members can respond as an opportunity to educate and enlighten!

You and watermelongirl may be right about that. Here is what they say their purpose is:

 

"We are vocal about our positions and the changes we would like to see within the Church.  Because of this we are asking our local leaders to convene disciplinary hearings in an effort to be held to the same standards as our leaders and heroes who are attempting to improve the Church and make it stronger more dynamic religious community. Just like these individuals who have been targeted for Church discipline, we feel that there should be space in the Church for Mormons like us. However, if these individuals are no longer wanted by the Church, then we will stand with them."

 

I say let them do it if they want.

[mnn727]

Did anyone read their suggested letter? wow!! Why would anyone with those beliefs want to be a member??

Edited June 25, 2014 by mnn727

[CV75]

Based on my own experiences and the anecdotes of others, I believe that YW leaders (for teenagers) or RS leaders should be in the room for women in many if not all cases, perhaps at the discretion of the accused.

When I was a Bishop in the early 90s that is how we did it, as requested by the woman for whom the council was held or the private counseling was arranged. We never referred to them as the "accused," but always referred to them by name. In some cases the guest was a leader, but usually not.

 

In counseling youth, a few times parents asked to attend. One was an instance involving special needs, another the child asked her mother to come discuss a moral issue.

 

I'd like to keep things flexible as far as ancillary supports are concerned; not everyone wants a leader, a parent or a friend in the room.

 

Child safety (emotional as well s physical)  is always a top concern, and I understand that there are unit-specific policies/practices in place as needed.

[strappinglad]

Some folks have no idea what a " wave " is. 3 people do not a wave make. Of course, if we all jump up and down in the shallow end we can make a serious ripple.

[Antoni]

I'm perplexed as to why they feel there is a place for them in the Church when they treat it with such disdain and will only be happy when their views are accepted/pushed onto everyone. The strength of the church is it's doctrine, having seen the disaster that entails in churches becoming "broad" far too often, I'm glad it is making a stand.

 

As a poster above mentions - they need to realise there are many converts to the church that joined it for the reasons they claim need reforming/changing.

[USU78]

Perhaps they somehow hope to highlight discrepancies in how the cases are handled. One bishopric might ex a particular woman and another might find that no action is best. .

 

Why should one expect uniformity of outcome in a world where there Ford people and Chevy people?

[JAHS]

Refer to DonBradley's new post to get John Dehlin and Kate Kelly's opinion about this website.

Edited June 25, 2014 by JAHS

[frank_jessop]

There is a name given under the News release: Micah Nickolaisen and a phone number for the Arizona area. I'm thinking that this will help us find out who the Tares are. Isn't technology awesome?

Doesn't the rameumptom in the Book of Mormon represent - denial Christ, belief in a false concept of election, and worship with set prayers?

Is it our place to place what amounts to a final judgment on a person by labeling that person a tare. Should we be so giddy about doing it either.

[Avatar4321]

I read their disciplinary council letter. If anyone truly believes what they believe, they've already excommunicated themselves from the Church.

[The Nehor]

 Here is their recommended letter though they encourage you to remove any bullet points that don't fit you:

 

 

Dear President XXXXX,

You may be aware of the news coverage surrounding the pending Church discipline of several prominent Church members.  These individuals have been accused of not believing fundamental LDS truth claims and expressing open and public opposition to the Church and its leaders. While I have no desire to resign my Church membership -- nor do I feel that I am deserving of being disfellowshipped or excommunicated -- I feel very strongly that if these individuals are subject to disciplinary hearings, then I most certainly am as well.

While I consider and present myself as a member in good standing, I hold many beliefs that are contrary to the teachings, doctrines, and leaders of the Church, including the following:

• I am completely agnostic about the existence of a divine, sentient creator.

• I have serious doubts about the divinity of Jesus, and I have little understanding and belief in the LDS concept of the Atonement.

• I find Joseph Smith’s fundamental character flaws, pathological dishonesty, and moral relativism not in harmony with an individual who should be speaking for God.

• I don’t know where the Book of Mormon came from, but I am quite certain that it is not a historical record of an ancient civilization.

• I think there is compelling evidence that the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham are works of religious fiction that were conjured from the spectacular imagination of Joseph Smith.

• I see little evidence that the General Authorities now and in the past are or ever were inspired or commissioned by any divine source.

• I do not always sustain Church leaders, and I am incredibly reluctant to provide financial support to the Church.

• I disagree with the proscription of static gender roles, and feel that Mormon women should have access to all levels of priesthood ordination, priesthood offices, and Church leadership.

• I don’t believe that homosexuality is a sin, I don’t believe that gay marriage is a threat to society, and I strongly disagree with almost all of the Church’s rhetoric and treatment toward the LGBT community.

• While I think transcendent spiritual and emotional experiences (what Mormons refer to as the Holy Ghost) can be valuable to an individual’s well-being, I don’t think those experiences can convey objective truth.

Below is a list of how I have in the past and will continue to promote these beliefs in public and private to other Church members:

• I have been quoted by news outlets as questioning the Church’s for-profit ventures and lack of financial transparency.

• I have published numerous blog posts with wide circulation amongst the online Mormon community publicly opposing the Church’s stance on homosexuality and “traditional” marriage.

• I have published numerous blog posts with wide circulation amongst the online Mormon community publicly opposing the Church’s stance on static gender roles and feminism.

• I have publicly supported activist groups such as Ordain Women.

• I have publicly criticized statements by current and previous Church leaders.

• I have appeared and/or hosted Mormon podcasts that disseminate views and opinions that are contrary to Church policy and doctrine.

All this being considered, I humbly request assistance from the Church in the form of a Church court to determine the best course of action for myself and my membership in the Church. If you have any questions I would be happy to address them at my disciplinary court. Please let me know as soon as possible when you intend for the hearing to take place.

Sincerely,

XXXXXXXXX

 

 

I encourage anyone who agrees with all or most of said bullet points to go ahead and send in this letter. This would be like finding dedicated communists in the Tea party. Why did it take you so long to leave?