Popular Post Bsix Posted June 23, 2014 Popular Post Posted June 23, 2014 Don't fall off your ramp or you might have to follow a gospel principle of mourning with those who mourn. We should all mourn. A child of God has lost their way and lost their membership in the Church. As such, baptismal, endowment, and sealing blessings are lost. Her eternal salvation is at risk. Additionally, we should mourn for the havoc she has wrought upon the image of the Church. No doubt, she has hurt the faith and testimony of others. Critics of the Church are dancing with delight over this affair. Rather than building the kingdom of God, she has wrought controversy and contention. 7
Popular Post Bsix Posted June 23, 2014 Popular Post Posted June 23, 2014 Kate Kelly has every right to divulge the contents of the letter. Of course she does. However, the disclosure of a private ecclesiastical matter as a part of a public relations campaign lends credence to the wisdom of her Bishop using formal (hard copy) communications. 5
Erin15 Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 Kate Kelly has every right to divulge the contents of the letter.Can? Yes. Should? No. 2
Rain Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) I think it is perfectly fine to feel sad. I understand that she has the opportunity to change things around now, but she had it before as well. Until, she decides to come back to the fold there is nothing wrong with feeling sad.You can still feel sad, but feel the joy of the atonement at the same time. Edited June 23, 2014 by Rain 3
USU78 Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) Then ask the bishop to make it public, I guess. She can make public what she wants. Maybe this is much ado about nothing. Perhaps there is nothing more int he letter.Church policy is not to publish such things. Why should there be an exception here? Edited June 23, 2014 by USU78
name Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 I disagree. Repentance and forgiveness are beautiful things. So are compassion, grace, humility and extensions of love to and for fellow Christians!
rpn Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) “for conduct contrary to the laws and order of the church,Before the latest handbook, there was a category of conduct unbecoming a member. It doesn't appear in the current version. And this isn't the language of the descriptions of apostasy either.. What do you think would happen if Sister Kelly appealed on procedural grounds --- SP putting her on informal probation and not the bishop, email notice instead of certified mail or hand delivery, holding her records before the the disciplinary council was announced (and apparently the new bishop not deciding where it should be held, though these might also be things different from what sister kelly claimed) both of which are contrary to the handbook, and then being excommunicated for an action that is not in the handbook, and why only men who hold the Melcheze**** priesthood get the protection of 12 persons, six of whom are assigned to speak for the member. and appeal to the First Presidency (this absence was noted in KK's brief to the DC, I don't know if it is accurate), which is the final irony in a case that is about concerns of equal treatment of women. The good news is that it should be crystal clear to everyone that it isn't her questions or beliefs at all. ETA after reading the whole letter to correct what sister kelly had alleged that are inconsistent with the disciplinary letter. Edited June 24, 2014 by rpn
The Nehor Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 Wow. I am very disappointed in you, Nehor. Mission accomplished.
Erin15 Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 So are compassion, grace, humility and extensions of love to and for fellow Christians! Indeed. I think offering her an easy and simple way back into full membership and fellowship is wonderfully compassionate. I pray she takes advantage of it.
Calm Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) I agree, I've de -friended myself from JD (he doesn't know me anyway) and I've left the Mormon Stories Podcast & It's a Thoughtful Faith Support Group on FB. I can't stomach the train wreck.Good for you. Edited June 23, 2014 by calmoriah 1
Calm Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Kate Kelly has every right to divulge the contents of the letter.It was only divulging the part of it that made her look good, that was a problem. If she was going to publish it, it would have been more appropriate to publish everything. 1
name Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 We should all mourn. Yes, we all certainly should!Critics of the Church are dancing with delight over this affair. Nonsense!
name Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 All, Sorry about my sloppy posts. Trying to figure out the quoting feature and it seems I can't edit.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 I am unfamiliar with the term "don't fall off your ramp." Regardless, my desire is to see Kate Kelly enter the celestial kingdom, and that would have been impossible had she continued on the path she was on. Now, with the Lord's mercy, she has an opportunity to achieve celestial glory if she will but choose to do what the Lord requires of her. And I rejoice that He is giving her another chance.And you know that.... how?
Calm Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 When you hit 25 you will be able to edit. If the quote feature isn't working well for you, use the icon that looks like a lightswitch at the top lefthand of the reply box. Clicking on that will remove the automatic coding to make it easier to remove and you can place [ quote ] and [/ quote ] around comments you want to quote (remove the spaces).
BookofMormonLuvr Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Indeed. I think offering her an easy and simple way back into full membership and fellowship is wonderfully compassionate. I pray she takes advantage of it.I think I need an extra metformin, your sweetness is like to kill me.easy and simple way = keep your mouth shut.Even I have an issue with that and I associate with people who left their church precisely because the church gave women the Priesthood.This all could have been handled WAAAY differently...I am disappointed with all parties involved.
Popular Post mfbukowski Posted June 24, 2014 Popular Post Posted June 24, 2014 Guilty. I find the outcome to be pretty much what I expected, and I find myself oddly admiring that this decision was reached with all the scrutiny and hand wringing that was going on. I think this shows that "PR" isn't the tail wagging the dog, and right or wrong, the Church will stand by its doctrine and principles, even when backed up against the wall of public opinion.Class act, perfect letter, perfectly written- loved every word. And note that the final issue was not disagreeing with the church but trying to persuade others. Well said. 6
Calm Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 I think I need an extra metformin, your sweetness is like to kill me.easy and simple way = keep your mouth shut.Even I have an issue with that and I associate with people who left their church precisely because the church gave women the Priesthood.This all could have been handled WAAAY differently...I am disappointed with all parties involved.Did you read the letter from the bishop? It was rather precise in what she could not do. "keep your mouth shut" was not in it that I saw. 2
BookofMormonLuvr Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Did you read the letter from the bishop? It was rather precise in what she could not do. "keep your mouth shut" was not in it that I saw. I did read it and that is the essence of what I saw..."you have stopped teachings and actions that undermine..."so it goes beyond "trying to gain a following"IMHO Edited June 24, 2014 by BookofMormonLuvr
mormonnewb Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 I think that there just may be some serious reflection when some go for a temple recommend interview and the bishop gets to the question of affiliation with apostate groups. There will probably not be any further excommunication unless they indulge in active and public dissent. It's funny that you mentioned that because I handed my TR over to my bishop yesterday with a note explaining that, as I understand current Church policy, I am no longer "worthy" to hold it because of my vocal support for OW. I doubt many other members will see it that way, but it seems clear that if members are being ex'd for leading movement, then those of us who follow can't claim to be meeting the Church's highest standard of worthiness.
JLHPROF Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 My feeling on this outcome is:1. That seeing a member separated from the Curch is a sad thing.2. This really was an inevitable conclusion given her unwillingness to stop OW.3. This is not a "sad day" for the Church or any such thing. If anything it is impressive that such social pressure can be withstood in favor of correct principle. 2
name Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Indeed. I think offering her an easy and simple way back into full membership and fellowship is wonderfully compassionate. I pray she takes advantage of it. And if a human being (for whatever reason) does not take this "easy and simple way back into full membership and fellowship", should we then resist the temptation to offer compassion, humility and extensions of Christian love? What if they had a "full membership" at Costco? Would that be enough to earn our collective compassion/understanding/love? (Thank you, Calmoriah, for the info/advice)
Calm Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 What if they had a "full membership" at Costco?I will consider the snort you provided a fair exchange.
Erin15 Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 And if a human being (for whatever reason) does not take this "easy and simple way back into full membership and fellowship", should we then resist the temptation to offer compassion, humility and extensions of Christian love?What if they had a "full membership" at Costco? Would that be enough to earn our collective compassion/understanding/love? It is precisely because I love her that I want her to do the right thing. All parents understand that you can love and correct a wayward child at the same time. When I correct my daughter, I am not doing it because I hate her, I am doing it because I love her. God is our parent. 4
Rain Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 We should all mourn. A child of God has lost their way and lost their membership in the Church. As such, baptismal, endowment, and sealing blessings are lost. Her eternal salvation is at risk. Additionally, we should mourn for the havoc she has wrought upon the image of the Church. No doubt, she has hurt the faith and testimony of others. Critics of the Church are dancing with delight over this affair. Rather than building the kingdom of God, she has wrought controversy and contention. I have not seen dancing, but I have seen something similar to gloating on another board I used to visit. The board is not LDS related and someone posted about some of the things going on, but doesn't know all of the info and is believing half truths and another board member who left the church just jumped right on and is basically saying "Neener neener neener". I have left the board as a posted for privacy reasons and other reasons and have no desire to create a new username or I would be tempted to make some corrections.
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