Kate Kelly Verdict Is In...

[bluebell]

IMO, we already have too many obstacles in our way to get to the Divine. And I believe most everyone will be with their family whether they believe in this church or not, where does it say we won't in the bilble or b.o.m. unless we do some masionic like ordinance in the temple?

 

Where does the bible or BOM say that we will be with our families, regardless of what we choose, what we do, or who we follow?

[why me]

I think the difference was, John wasn't running to the New York Times constantly or staging protests.

Maybe this was true but he did go to the press with his new problem. However, john did organize mormonstories conferences such as this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3s3gJHTj0E

 

http://mormonstories.org/what-is-the-purpose-of-a-mormon-stories-conference/

 

 

Interestingly during this 'testimony' meeting john is getting a lot of compliments toward the end of the 'testimonies'. However, it needs to be mentioned that john disbanded such conferences and his MS chapters which of course would be an abandonment of these people. I remember it at the time and the disappointment that was experienced. Watching this again, I can see why there would be such disappointment. He did bring together a unique community of people but how he could technically abandon the community is beyond me. Also, if I were john I think that I would have become lost in the acclaim that I would be receiving at this 'testimony' meeting and at the conferences. Personally, I would think that an active member of the church would be attempting to bring these people back to the fold.

 

Here is his statement about why he discontinued them:

 

http://mormonstories.org/a-clarification-about-the-mormon-stories-regional-communities-and-conferences/

Edited July 14, 2014 by why me

[Scott Lloyd]

Yes, Scott, but isn't perception everything?

Nope.

The "perception is reality" meme is nonsense that the advertising profession has foisted on us and that too many have swallowed uncritically. The reality is that perception can be and very often is false.

Think of a set of railroad tracks running straight ahead to the horizon. Perception is that they converge in the distance; reality is that they run continuously parallel.

[Scott Lloyd]

I think the difference was, John wasn't running to the New York Times constantly or staging protests.

But his antics likely emboldened KK and perhaps others.

[Robert F. Smith]

Some people who claim to have been abused were, in fact, not abused by any reasonable standard.

 

In that event, to accept uncritically their claim that they were abused (to "take them at their word," to use your phrasing) is to falsely accuse -- or, at least, to believe a falsehood about -- someone else. And that is manifestly unjust.

Robert F. Smith, on 14 Jul 2014 - 03:44 AM, said:

Yes, Scott, but isn't perception everything?

Nope.

The "perception is reality" meme is nonsense that the advertising profession has foisted on us and that too many have swallowed uncritically. The reality is that perception can be and very often is false.

Think of a set of railroad tracks running straight ahead to the horizon. Perception is that they converge in the distance; reality is that they run continuously parallel.

You miss the point, Scott. Of course the falsity can be there, but what good is that observation if no one knows or believes it? Whole cultures and civilizations have been led down the garden path to doom just because they thought something false to be true.

Perception is not truth, Scott, but it is everything in the way of the world.  That is why Christians are advised to avoid the very appearance of immorality.  Not truth, but the appearance of truth -- which may bring discredit upon the Body of Christ (His Saints, His holy people).

[Scott Lloyd]

You miss the point, Scott. Of course the falsity can be there, but what good is that observation if no one knows or believes it? Whole cultures and civilizations have been led down the garden path to doom just because they thought something false to be true.

Perception is not truth, Scott, but it is everything in the way of the world.  That is why Christians are advised to avoid the very appearance of immorality.  Not truth, but the appearance of truth -- which may bring discredit upon the Body of Christ (His Saints, His holy people).

Acknowledging that perception can be worthy of consideration is not the same thing as asserting that "perception is everything."

 

One can hardly persuade a person that his/her perception is false while embracing that perception as some sort of alternate reality or otherwise playing word or mind games.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[Robert F. Smith]

Acknowledging that perception can be worthy of consideration is not the same thing as asserting that "perception is everything."

 

One can hardly persuade a person that his/her perception is false while embracing that perception as some sort of alternate reality or otherwise playing word or mind games.

Let me put it another way:  "The customer is always right" is not always true, but it is true that successful businesses adopt that practice.  I once worked for a man who insisted that "perception is everything," and who was likewise very successful in avoiding problems.  He was brought in to solve a problem with PR in a very high-pressure governmental unit, and he did so with alacrity,  good humor, and style.  He was also draconian when he needed to be.

 

A bishop who advises a married member of his ward that it is unacceptable for that married person to be alone with a member of the opposite sex (even in innocently driving the other to an appt) is advising the avoidance of the very suggestion or appearance of immorality (I Thess 5:22).  The same applies to the bishop having another person in the very next room when meeting with a female ward member.  He is not calling into question the reality of one's morals, but rather the perception of possible breach of morals.  The possibility of scandal must be avoided.