Tacenda Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 Seven kids (4 served missions- 6 temple married) six out with spouses and children -- remaining one is a New Order Mormon due to TBM parents, spouse and kids.This is telling...not sure exactly what it's telling, but it does seem shocking since these 6 were temple married.
Storm Rider Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 Anecdotal stories are valid for some things, but are not usually a reliable standard for deductions. One characteristic of celestial life, I have imagined, is that we see people as they truly are and with an eternal perspective. This is a time of learning and trials that is full of failures and some successes. I am loathe to judge too quickly because of an individual's present relationship with our Father in Heaven. There are a host of reasons for one's caliber of relationship with God. There are times when I have felt very close to our HF and yet not been as active in Church at other times. At other times I have been quite active and yet did not feel as close our HF. Some people at certain times in their life don't find as much pleasure in attending church and they may appear to be of little faith when the opposite is true. More importantly, this is an eternal venture; we are eternal beings and the process of emulating the example of Jesus Christ and learning to hunger for holiness is not accomplished in a day.
Duncan Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 Something I have seen time and again and I am by no means saying this is how it always is or judging anyone by any stretch. Sometimes very active families who do all the right things for their family have most if not all their kids leave the Church and leave it so far entirely, basically ramming religion down the kids throats and so no wonder they gag on it and don't want any part of it. The right thing isn't always the best thing.I have seen it with families I have grown up with, the parents decide everything for the kids "you're going to camp","you are going to seminary", "you are going on a mission" etc. Again, not saying this happens to every family that has inactive family members but just what I have seen
Garden Girl Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 (edited) Something I have seen time and again and I am by no means saying this is how it always is or judging anyone by any stretch. Sometimes very active families who do all the right things for their family have most if not all their kids leave the Church and leave it so far entirely, basically ramming religion down the kids throats and so no wonder they gag on it and don't want any part of it. The right thing isn't always the best thing.I have seen it with families I have grown up with, the parents decide everything for the kids "you're going to camp","you are going to seminary", "you are going on a mission" etc. Again, not saying this happens to every family that has inactive family members but just what I have seen I've seen this too, Duncan... in fact, it played a role in my becoming inactive for so many years. Not entirely, but helped... I had a tendency to walk in the world (good things, just not the Church per se, i.e., lots of outside activities, non-LDS friends, dated lots of non-LDS boys etc etc). My step-dad was a convert and my mom had been less active. When he converted they became soooo TBM it was stifling... anyway, I married non-LDS and that also impacted my Church activity... or non-activity... but through the ensuing years I would receive promptings to return to Church until finally I did heed those promptings, and I told my husband that I was really feeling the need to return to Church... and he said... then you should... and I did... and have never looked back. My dear husband, I don't think he realized just what that meant or how TBM his wife would become, although he supported me without question during the three years he was alive after I reactivated... we are sealed now... and my prayer is that he has accepted the ordinances and being the man he was I'm sure he has... and that he awaits me... GG Edited June 1, 2014 by Garden Girl 4
saemo Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 (edited) My grandparents and siblings are half and half.Aunts and uncles on one side were nor raised LDS. 2/3 eventually became TBM. On the other side, as someone said, the good pioneer stock side, all TBM but one. Wow, never thought on it really. On the hubby side, one parent and two children left. One half sibling is TBM, four are never-Mormon. Two grandparents were TBM, one was a convert TBM, one was never-Mormon. Edited June 1, 2014 by saemo
Buzzard Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 Eight of us, six boys, two girls. Seven are fully active and involved. One brother went through a wild time in his life after returning from his mission. Met and eventually married a nice nominal Catholic girl, who later turned atheist, so now he declares himself to be a non-believer, though a cultural Mormon.
jkwilliams Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 Something I have seen time and again and I am by no means saying this is how it always is or judging anyone by any stretch. Sometimes very active families who do all the right things for their family have most if not all their kids leave the Church and leave it so far entirely, basically ramming religion down the kids throats and so no wonder they gag on it and don't want any part of it. The right thing isn't always the best thing.I have seen it with families I have grown up with, the parents decide everything for the kids "you're going to camp","you are going to seminary", "you are going on a mission" etc. Again, not saying this happens to every family that has inactive family members but just what I have seen My parents were not that way at all. My two older siblings walked away from the church when they left home after high school. My older sister and I went to BYU, I went on a mission, both of us married in the temple. We were on the same path in the church until I was 40. but it had nothing to do with my parents pushing anything on us.
birdgirl Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 This is telling...not sure exactly what it's telling, but it does seem shocking since these 6 were temple married.Yeah, my mom was pretty sure that it was telling that she sucked. No greater success can compensate and all that- not that she did ANYTHING else besides fail in the home evidently. Not her fault but she can't believe it.
Stone holm Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 My deceased wife and I were converts, our 6 kids bic. One served a mission, two are active, one would be active but too busy, other three inactive. Child with my second wife bic, he is inactive as is his mother. All three stepchildren inactive. The two active married in the Church. The inactive married outside the Church. The political aura of most members is repulsive to most of the inactive children's wives, so unlikely any of them will re activate.
saemo Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 Something I have seen time and again and I am by no means saying this is how it always is or judging anyone by any stretch. Sometimes very active families who do all the right things for their family have most if not all their kids leave the Church and leave it so far entirely, basically ramming religion down the kids throats and so no wonder they gag on it and don't want any part of it. The right thing isn't always the best thing.I have seen it with families I have grown up with, the parents decide everything for the kids "you're going to camp","you are going to seminary", "you are going on a mission" etc. Again, not saying this happens to every family that has inactive family members but just what I have seenFor a while I agreed with this over-the-top push of religion as a valid observation. My TBM friends think that is why I left. But, none of the reasons I left have anything to do with how religious my parents are. I also wouldn't want my parents to think it is their fault I left, as it isn't. I admire their devotion to their religion and way of life. I just don't believe what they believe. 1
Tacenda Posted June 2, 2014 Posted June 2, 2014 Yeah, my mom was pretty sure that it was telling that she sucked. No greater success can compensate and all that- not that she did ANYTHING else besides fail in the home evidently. Not her fault but she can't believe it.It could be they ran into unsavory information about the church and told one another, or Prop 8, etc. Seems to be the problem a lot of times, something major I would think, would need to occur. You are probably well aware of the circumstances, I hope it doesn't look like I'm fishing for information, because I'm not. I feel for your mom, my heart goes out to her. I know how hard it was on my mom when her children quit living the standards of the church and quit attending, none of them married in the temple though. So double whammy there, bless her heart. I hope she realizes she can be with them in the eternities, IMHO.
Duncan Posted June 2, 2014 Posted June 2, 2014 (edited) For a while I agreed with this over-the-top push of religion as a valid observation. My TBM friends think that is why I left. But, none of the reasons I left have anything to do with how religious my parents are. I also wouldn't want my parents to think it is their fault I left, as it isn't. I admire their devotion to their religion and way of life. I just don't believe what they believe. for sure and I see it happening in other areas as well, like some extreme behaviours in people are a turn off to others, like I want to be good at something but I don't want to become like that so I am not going to do it, they just need to see how other people live the religion who are less extreme Par example we had a missionary here, last year, who was overWAY the top and they were training. I had the impression that the greenie thought they had to be like their trainer in order to be a good missionary and they didn't want to be like that at all Edited June 2, 2014 by Duncan
Leelee Posted June 2, 2014 Posted June 2, 2014 My paternal grandparents died faithful. My mother (convert) died faithful. Elderly father still faithful. They had five children, all endowed, only two of us still in the church. Husband's parents died faithful. Five children in his family, all left at 12-13 years old except for him. We are active. Have four children. All endowed. One has left, one less active, other two still active. We are close to each other. Spend a lot of time together. Lots of love shared. Praying for their return someday. Loving them while patiently waiting on the Lord. 2
Stone holm Posted June 2, 2014 Posted June 2, 2014 It could be they ran into unsavory information about the church and told one another, or Prop 8, etc. Seems to be the problem a lot of times, something major I would think, would need to occur. You are probably well aware of the circumstances, I hope it doesn't look like I'm fishing for information, because I'm not. I feel for your mom, my heart goes out to her. I know how hard it was on my mom when her children quit living the standards of the church and quit attending, none of them married in the temple though. So double whammy there, bless her heart. I hope she realizes she can be with them in the eternities, IMHO.Am beginning to believe there is no recipe for success, but in my personal experience marrying within the faith is pretty crucial. Problem is, if they live outside of Mormondom and don't attend a marriage mill like BYU, chances are extremely large they will marry outside the faith.
Johnnie Cake Posted June 2, 2014 Posted June 2, 2014 When you take into account that the vast majority of church members don't participate in any form of organized Mormonism any longer...the implications of this poll are only the tip of the iceberg...
stemelbow Posted June 2, 2014 Posted June 2, 2014 When you take into account that the vast majority of church members don't participate in any form of organized Mormonism any longer...the implications of this poll are only the tip of the iceberg... Hey Johnnie Cake. What's up? Define "vast majority". Then define "don't participate in any form of organized Mormonism any longer"? Are you suggesting that the "less active" no longer participate at all? As I understand it somewhere down around 30-40% are considered active, not sure if all the less active don't participate in any form of organized Mormonism any longer. The truth is, though, the number of leavers is large and seems to be increasing.
escott3564 Posted June 2, 2014 Posted June 2, 2014 I guess another thing that kind of throws a monkey wrench in this is that there are a lot of variables. For example, my brother has been inactive for years, but if you asked him what Church he belonged to, he would tell you "the LDS Church" without batting an eye. So do you count him as someone who has "left" the Church? I wouldn't think so. 3
SeekingUnderstanding Posted June 2, 2014 Posted June 2, 2014 Hey Johnnie Cake. What's up?Define "vast majority". Then define "don't participate in any form of organized Mormonism any longer"?Are you suggesting that the "less active" no longer participate at all? As I understand it somewhere down around 30-40% are considered active, not sure if all the less active don't participate in any form of organized Mormonism any longer.The truth is, though, the number of leavers is large and seems to be increasing.It's hard to put a finger on it exactly, but in some countries its easier than others. In Mexico, for instance, people report their religious beliefs on the census. Only 25% of those on the church roles self identify as Mormon per the 2010 census (see here).
stemelbow Posted June 2, 2014 Posted June 2, 2014 It's hard to put a finger on it exactly, but in some countries its easier than others. In Mexico, for instance, people report their religious beliefs on the census. Only 25% of those on the church roles self identify as Mormon per the 2010 census (see here). yep
Johnnie Cake Posted June 2, 2014 Posted June 2, 2014 (edited) Hey Johnnie Cake. What's up? Not Much...been awhile since we've chatted on here...how's it going? Define "vast majority". Then define "don't participate in any form of organized Mormonism any longer"?Are you suggesting that the "less active" no longer participate at all? As I understand it somewhere down around 30-40% are considered active, not sure if all the less active don't participate in any form of organized Mormonism any longer.The truth is, though, the number of leavers is large and seems to be increasing.When you take into account that the vast majority of church members don't participate in any form of organized Mormonism any longer...the implications of this poll are only the tip of the iceberg... According to the http://www.cumorah.com/index.php?target=church_growth_articles site...world church participation rate is around 35% of those who self identify as members...so "vast majority" would be the actual majority of the claimed 15 million members don't participate in Mormonism and by "don't participate" I mean that the majority of members claimed by the corporate church don't participate in ANY meaningful manner in organized Mormonism. Edited June 2, 2014 by Johnnie Cake
Stone holm Posted June 2, 2014 Posted June 2, 2014 Well but that's not fair, how do you know that the dead people who are still listed on our roles aren't participating?
stemelbow Posted June 2, 2014 Posted June 2, 2014 Not Much...been awhile since we've chatted on here...how's it going?According to the http://www.cumorah.com/index.php?target=church_growth_articles site...world church participation rate is around 35% of those who self identify as members...so "vast majority" would be the actual majority of the claimed 15 million members don't participate in Mormonism and by "don't participate" I mean that the majority of members claimed by the corporate church don't participate in ANY meaningful manner in organized Mormonism. Okay. I getcha. So you are thinking in terms of activity rates. thought that might have been the case.
Garden Girl Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 I guess another thing that kind of throws a monkey wrench in this is that there are a lot of variables. For example, my brother has been inactive for years, but if you asked him what Church he belonged to, he would tell you "the LDS Church" without batting an eye. So do you count him as someone who has "left" the Church? I wouldn't think so. This was me for over 30 years, when I was totally inactive, but never considered myself anything other than Mormon... then approx 19 years ago I reactivated and became totally active... TBM in fact... and remain so... GG
DJBrown Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 Of my family of ten (parents and 8 kids), all are active. Six of the eight kids (4 boys, 2 girls) served missions. All married in the temple. One brother briefly fell away from the church and dabbled in atheism. He has since returned and is currently very active in the church. Of my parents' 44 grandchildren, 2 are currently not active in the church.
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