Depression And The Holy Ghost

[Bob Crockett]

I have counseled many people with depression, clients and church members.  There is no single cause.  Physicians are often just as mystified as lay persons as to the treatment.

 

I had a friend I counseled email me today, coincidentally, who suffered from severe depression.   He was under a doctor's care but still wanted advice.  I had nothing to suggest except to say that he go out an walk a mile a day.   When he couldn't do that, I bought a gym membership for him and paid for a trainer for dozens of sessions.   That was 8 years ago, and today I received an email crediting that trainer for saving his life.  He's now entiering employment as a paramedic. 

 

So, go figure.  There is no particular cause, effect or solution.  But somebody battling with depression is going to find it hard to feel the Spirit, no doubt.

[jkwilliams]

I have counseled many people with depression, clients and church members.  There is no single cause.  Physicians are often just as mystified as lay persons as to the treatment.

 

I had a friend I counseled email me today, coincidentally, who suffered from severe depression.   He was under a doctor's care but still wanted advice.  I had nothing to suggest except to say that he go out an walk a mile a day.   When he couldn't do that, I bought a gym membership for him and paid for a trainer for dozens of sessions.   That was 8 years ago, and today I received an email crediting that trainer for saving his life.  He's now entiering employment as a paramedic. 

 

So, go figure.  There is no particular cause, effect or solution.  But somebody battling with depression is going to find it hard to feel the Spirit, no doubt.

 

That is an incredibly generous thing you did, Bob. Well done.

 

Getting into a regular exercise routine helped me tremendously. When you're depressed, the last thing you want to do is get out of the house and work out, but it really does help.

[Kevin Christensen]

One of my friends in California suffered from chronic depression, the sort of which sucked all the meaning and hope out of his life, such that he could not remember or imagine feeling happy again. He'd go off and sit in his car and contemplate whether or not to connect the hose he brought to the tailpipe. His faith convinced him that the only thing that would change would be the scenery. So he didn't. Some of his church leaders would recommend scripture study, prayer, and church service, and when he didn't get better, they tended to withdraw from him. Ultimately his wife did some research and learned about prozac. When he got that, he felt enormously better, and then had to deal with the fallout from the unhelpful advice he was given. At one point he asked, "Where was God?" My wife, Shauna, observed that God seemed to be working through his wife. It was her faith and love and concern and action that led to the medication he needed. Once that was pointed out, he realized it was true. Even so, as he put it, he'd had a hardware problem to which his advisers were applying software patches. Once he got his hardware fixed, via the correct medication, he had to sort through the software.

One of the scriptures I learned as a youth was "There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven, before the foundations of this world upon which all blessings are predicated. And when we receive any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated." Basically, cause and effect. What he needed most was prozac. A correct diagnosis, knowledge and access to the appropriate medication for his biological problem.

Side note, J. K Rowling based the dementors on her experience in dealing with depression. Notice that the spell that Harry learns to deal with the attacks is based on finding a powerful happy memory. In many instances, that can help as well.

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

[VideoGameJunkie]

I take like 4 different medications for all of my problems, so I'm probably going to be on pills my whole life.

[jkwilliams]

I take like 4 different medications for all of my problems, so I'm probably going to be on pills my whole life.

 

I'm down to one. I count that as progress. But you do what you have to do, and if that means you take 4 pills, you just take 4 pills.

[wenglund]

Shouldn't the Holy Ghost cut through the depression?  

 

...as much as it should cut through any significant pain and suffering--which, to some extent is dependent not so much on what the Holy Ghost can or cannot do, but the receptivity of the depressed to receiving the administration of the Spirit.

 

Part of the cause of depression in many people (me included) is cognitive distortion--perceiving things in a somewhat distorted and irrational way, kind of like looking into a funny-house mirror. As such, even shinning the pure light of the Holy Ghost onto a funny house mirror may inadvertently reflected in unhelpful directions.

 

The good news is, and speaking from personal experience, the light of the Spirit may one day shine internally in full brightness and helpfulness, particularly if the depressed adhere to the promptings of the Spirit and seek out the loving arms of Christ as well as inspired health professionals.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

Side note, J. K Rowling based the dementors on her experience in dealing with depression. Notice that the spell that Harry learns to deal with the attacks is based on finding a powerful happy memory. In many instances, that can help as well.

 

It is also useful in treating post traumatic stress disorder (PSTD).

 

What worked best for me is developing an attitude of gratitude. I can think of no more powerful source than that for happy memories.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[thesometimesaint]

I take like 4 different medications for all of my problems, so I'm probably going to be on pills my whole life.

 

You wouldn't believe the pharmacopeia I've got going, but not for any mental illness. I've got more than enough other health concerns.

[teddyaware]

Are you talking about the "placebo effect" of thinking that you have the Holy Ghost watching over you, or the effect of the lifting of depression after abandoning the thought that there is a Holy Ghost watching over you, because one could easily make the argument for the "placebo effect" in which a member thinks that there is a Holy Ghost watching over them, despite the fact that there really isn't.

 

Either way, in the end, if the effect is good, then does it really matter whether or not it is the result of a placebo?

Ah Walden, a.k.a. "man of hope." Just for you, I gleaned the following from yesterday's news headlines. Do a search and you can read more details about this wonderfully "good news" that will surely give cynics great cause to rejoice!

"Cynics 'face far higher risk of Alzheimer's': Those who mistrust others at greater risk of mental illness, doctors warn

Cynics could be three times more likely to develop dementia, doctors warn

Researchers asked 1,449 people with average age of 71 to take two tests

Trait has already been linked to the risk of heart disease and heart attacks

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2642317/Cynics-face-far-higher-risk-Alzheimers-Those-mistrust-greater-risk-mental-illness.html#ixzz33E5YMMxm

Follow us: (MailOnline)"

Edited May 30, 2014 by teddyaware

[JDave]

Just like the placebo effect can go both ways, so can cynicism.

[Bob Crockett]

That is an incredibly generous thing you did, Bob. Well done.

 

 

Umm.  Not so generous.  Creative use of welfare funds.

[jkwilliams]

Umm.  Not so generous.  Creative use of welfare funds.

 

I still say generous, as most bishops would not think to use welfare funds on such things. Nicely done.

[EllenMaksoud]

In reading this article it says

 

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865604105/Depression-More-than-a-bad-hair-day.html

 

 

"People with depression yearn for spiritual feelings and the warmth of God’s love, she said, but their symptoms often make it hard to sense and feel the Spirit’s positive comfort."

 

Which is true but also we read in the Doctrine and Covenants 14:2

 

"behold, I am God;Give heed to my word, which is quick and powerful, sharper than a two-edged sword, to the dividing asunder of both joints and marrow: Therefore give heed to my word"

 

Shouldn't the Holy Ghost cut through the depression? why does it sound like depression is a Holy Ghost repellant, it's not like depressed people don't want the spirit or get revelation, it's  like if you have depression, then you are cut off and can't feel the spirit despite what the DC says. What say ye?

Depression comes to us in lots of ways. For some it is a diagnosable chemical imbalance and there is more variation in symptoms and severity than you can even imagine. Sadly, at times people think that some Bipolar are just playing games. Then there is Depression brought on by extreme trauma that sets off symptoms that are often called  PTSD, Anxiety Disorder, and other labels.  Astonishingly, some think that depression is curable. It can be reduced and the sufferer can be given tools to deal with it.  I don't have much experience with Bipolar folk, but a lot with folk whose depression is brought on by abuse, assault, unlawful imprisonment, etc.

 

For the latter individual, the depression can be greatly reduced by the love and acceptance and healing those around them can give them. Conversely, those who others think have been healed, remain extremely vulnerable to the effects of further abuse. There is one segment of our culture that I am very familiar with whose suicide attempt rate is around 41%., 9 times the national average. And considering the circumstances for some individuals, I can not condemn them if they do suicide in spite of all we think we have done.

Edited May 30, 2014 by EllenMaksoud

[Calm]

You mean I have an excuse? Thanks Cal!!

using the excuse of lacking in something to excuse oneself is wasting the opportunity to develop the skills and gifts we are given. Care needs to be taken to avoid shifting from being realistic about one's limitations to being prone to use those limitations to play victim and excuse passive or self destructive behaviour.

[Calm]

I have counseled many people with depression, clients and church members.  There is no single cause.  Physicians are often just as mystified as lay persons as to the treatment.

 

I had a friend I counseled email me today, coincidentally, who suffered from severe depression.   He was under a doctor's care but still wanted advice.  I had nothing to suggest except to say that he go out an walk a mile a day.   When he couldn't do that, I bought a gym membership for him and paid for a trainer for dozens of sessions.   That was 8 years ago, and today I received an email crediting that trainer for saving his life.

That is showing true charity....taking the time to figure out what really helps rather than just being satisfied with offering help or giving what would work for oneself or had worked for others (which may be very generous and loving, but if not made to fit the needs of the individual may be useless or even detrimental).

[rodheadlee]

Speaking for myself only, depression was always essentially narcissistic: I couldn't see beyond my own suffering. So, if there is a link at all between spiritual experience and depression, my guess is that it's that the depressed person is so absorbed in misery he or she isn't really open or receptive to anything outside, including the spirit.

This is exactly what my sister goes through. Her whole life is spet trying to figure out why she is this way. I'm glad you are doing well. or seem to  be.

[jkwilliams]

This is exactly what my sister goes through. Her whole life is spet trying to figure out why she is this way. I'm glad you are doing well. or seem to  be.

 

I hope it didn't come across as being critical of people with depression. It's not that you're absorbed in self-pity; it's just impossible to break out of that ever-closing circle pointing inward. You're just trying to survive, and you don't have the capacity to look outward beyond yourself.

 

Thank you, I am doing really well. No major depressive episodes in 7 years.

[EllenMaksoud]

I have counseled many people with depression, clients and church members.  There is no single cause.  Physicians are often just as mystified as lay persons as to the treatment.

 

I had a friend I counseled email me today, coincidentally, who suffered from severe depression.   He was under a doctor's care but still wanted advice.  I had nothing to suggest except to say that he go out an walk a mile a day.   When he couldn't do that, I bought a gym membership for him and paid for a trainer for dozens of sessions.   That was 8 years ago, and today I received an email crediting that trainer for saving his life.  He's now entiering employment as a paramedic. 

 

So, go figure.  There is no particular cause, effect or solution.  But somebody battling with depression is going to find it hard to feel the Spirit, no doubt.

And sometimes there is no relief for the depression but one can point directly to the cause of it.  At times all one can do is absent themselves from those who are hurtful to us. You can't change others to make them stop being so mean, so you flee, not leaving a forwarding address.

[thesometimesaint]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/31/veterans-tragic-suicide-note-leaves-cnn-host-speechless-forgive-me-this-is-tough/http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/31/veterans-tragic-suicide-note-leaves-cnn-host-speechless-forgive-me-this-is-tough/

[Tacenda]

My son has been dating someone with depression. She's on meds, and sees a therapist. He bends over backwards to keep her happy, but she'll blow up over minor things and rush out the door. He can't win. She tried to commit suicide early in their dating life. So just today they were driving along and saw some kid skateboarding doing some crazy stuff, my son said "that kid's gonna kill himself". She got mad at him for saying that, something about killing themself. And she wouldn't talk to him from then on. He buys her flowers, let's her take his Visa and go shopping. When she is with the family, she'll all the sudden go quiet and won't look at anyone. You never know what will set her off. I believe he feels beholden to her. Maybe they'd be married by now, if it weren't for how she treats him. He's 22, she's 19. Everyone wishes he'd date others and find someone who treats him better. He has broke down and bawled twice this week, it's built up to this. Does anyone have some advice? I don't think this is regular depression if you can define it that way. It seems like he's the one that's always apologizing, she doesn't reciprocate. I've been trying to give her the benefit of the doubt but had a long talk with my son, and I think he's worried she'll try to take her life again, and worries he'll set that off. Any advice on how he should break up, or words for him that will help him see what he may be getting into? He needs some tools, it seems there are several of you that could help.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Tacenda

[Duncan]

My son has been dating someone with depression. She's on meds, and sees a therapist. He bends over backwards to keep her happy, but she'll blow up over minor things and rush out the door. He can't win. She tried to commit suicide early in their dating life. So just today they were driving along and saw some kid skateboarding doing some crazy stuff, my son said "that kid's gonna kill himself". She got mad at him for saying that, something about killing themself. And she wouldn't talk to him from then on. He buys her flowers, let's her take his Visa and go shopping. When she is with the family, she'll all the sudden go quiet and won't look at anyone. You never know what will set her off. I believe he feels beholden to her. Maybe they'd be married by now, if it weren't for how she treats him. He's 22, she's 19. Everyone wishes he'd date others and find someone who treats him better. He has broke down and bawled twice this week, it's built up to this. Does anyone have some advice? I don't think this is regular depression if you can define it that way. It seems like he's the one that's always apologizing, she doesn't reciprocate. I've been trying to give her the benefit of the doubt but had a long talk with my son, and I think he's worried she'll try to take her life again, and worries he'll set that off. Any advice on how he should break up, or words for him that will help him see what he may be getting into? He needs some tools, it seems there are several of you that could help.

 

gadzooks! has she dated previously, if i were your son I 'd move onto someone else but I would talk to previous boyfriend's and see how they ended things and her reaction-which he isn't responsible for.

[Tacenda]

gadzooks! has she dated previously, if i were your son I 'd move onto someone else but I would talk to previous boyfriend's and see how they ended things and her reaction-which he isn't responsible for.

That's a great idea. Now to find him. I know she had a boyfriend before my son.

[Duncan]

That's a great idea. Now to find him. I know she had a boyfriend before my son.

 

yeah, that could be a sticking point-talk to her friends they might know

[Bobbieaware]

My son has been dating someone with depression. She's on meds, and sees a therapist. He bends over backwards to keep her happy, but she'll blow up over minor things and rush out the door. He can't win. She tried to commit suicide early in their dating life. So just today they were driving along and saw some kid skateboarding doing some crazy stuff, my son said "that kid's gonna kill himself". She got mad at him for saying that, something about killing themself. And she wouldn't talk to him from then on. He buys her flowers, let's her take his Visa and go shopping. When she is with the family, she'll all the sudden go quiet and won't look at anyone. You never know what will set her off. I believe he feels beholden to her. Maybe they'd be married by now, if it weren't for how she treats him. He's 22, she's 19. Everyone wishes he'd date others and find someone who treats him better. He has broke down and bawled twice this week, it's built up to this. Does anyone have some advice? I don't think this is regular depression if you can define it that way. It seems like he's the one that's always apologizing, she doesn't reciprocate. I've been trying to give her the benefit of the doubt but had a long talk with my son, and I think he's worried she'll try to take her life again, and worries he'll set that off. Any advice on how he should break up, or words for him that will help him see what he may be getting into? He needs some tools, it seems there are several of you that could help.

For reasons known better to you than me, this is the kind of relationship your son feels comfortable with. He likely has subconscious feelings that cause him to feel unworthy to have a healthy relationship with someone who is confident, stable, positive in outlook and reasonably happy. Without realizing it, humans attract and are attracted to people who are at their own level of spiritual and emotional growth, or lack thereof. The healthier an individual is spiritually and emotionally, the more likely it is he or she will find a relationship with a kindred healthy spirit. There is a spiritual and scientific principle that can generally be relied on as being true: "like substances attract." Speaking for myself, I could have avoided a whole lot of pain and suffering in my life if only I had deferred having a relationship until, with God's help, I had gotten myself spiritually and emotionally healthy first before getting involved -- in my case with someone who was as spiritually troubled as I was. Without a strong and stable spiritual foundation, an excess of needless troubles seem to come and find you. And if your son is ever going to be able to help this girl, he must heed the Savior's counsel when he said, " physician, heal thyself (first)."

Edited June 3, 2015 by Bobbieaware

[Calm]

If one is planning on getting married, one better be ready to live with the person they've married for the rest of their lives and not some image of what might be.  Change may occur, but unless the person is already committed to working together with one, that change is just as likely to be worse than better.

 

Wlaking on eggshells, he will wear himself out emotionally and make himself sick or depressed himself.

 

If he thinks the girl needs protection and he is going to be the white knight to save her, it may be hard to get him to see that he is not helping her.  If there has been no positive change in her behaviour over their dating time, then marriage isn't going to change that.

 

Is he wanting or willing to be father and mother to their children?  And does he really want to set things up from such a difficult position from the beginning for his children?  Speaking as a mother who has suffered from many problems including depression and having a mother who had health issues all of her life, I would encourage any person to marry someone who is working hard at being healthy, mentally, physically and emotionally and spiritually if that is important to you...if not for your own sake, than your children's.  

 

All families have dysfunctional members, the question is whether or not the parent lets the depression control them or they control the depression...it sounds to me she is not aware or doesn't care how it is impacting her life and letting it determine it for her.  That might be by choice but also might be just the level of depression she has where she can't help herself.  In order to provide a healthy home life for your children (if they decide to have any and if they don't, will he resent it later or will she blame him because he wasn't willing to put a child at risk in their home...a child with a suicidal parent...it is heartbreaking to see what they go through if the attempts aren't successful and the guilt and blame that if only they were better children she might have survived, etc.

 

Not too clear tonight as already too sleep meds....will reread tomorrow hopefully and make more sense.

 

I would insist he goes to counseling a few months before any decision to make the relationship longterm so he can be told what to expect of himself and her and if it iwll be worth it.

 

He needs to find out how long she has been depressed and what drugs she takes and how good she is at taking them and how effective they are.  He could be going into a hell of a life for himself and everyone around him, however if she is actively working to get better, has good doctors, there could be a lot of happy times a head for him.  He needs to understand himself and not just think well, if it is important I will find the strength.  if it goes on day after day, month after month, endurance can be destroyed if he is the only one trying.