How Many Christians Will Lose Their Faith After Bill Nye Trounces Ken Ham?

Calm · January 17, 2014

The cartoon's cute and makes a good point. My point is that I don't think it would take godlike beings (what we were before coming to earth and experiencing the fall) a hundred million years to figure out how one strain of algae could mutate into several other strains of algae. Second thought, maybe even heaven has special education courses for some (I would have been one of them).

It is not about learning how to alter things, it is about learning and being willing to take the time and effort if this is how its always been done to conprehend down to the smallest creature to the largest galaxy in all their parts and interactions and having tespect and delight in them themselves that one will take the time to create the perfect environment for all things to fulfill their own meaning and purpose, in their pproper times and seasons.

Why did Christ bother waiting so many years between birth and death. Surely he knew what he needed to do by the age of 12 or so, it doesn't take three years to teach what's in the Bible and he knew these people well enough he could have gotten himself executed the day he began his mission. Why take 33 years or so when he could have given himself a full grown body right after birth and one straight to work rather than wasting 30 years watching the adobe brick crack and flake....and why in the world almost 2000 before the restoration? Why bother with the restoration at all? They were expecting theComing of the Messiah to bring on the end of the earth why not?

Edited January 17, 2014 by calmoriah

teddyaware · January 17, 2014

so you believe that the earth is around 6000 years old because God would get too bored if it took longer? If so, I really feel pity for this hyperactive God after he's sitting around at the end of a few. Million years of existence and wondering what could possibly be new and interesting that morning....nothing apparently so time to go back to bed. The pure agony of boredom......

As I've said repeatedly: I don't know how all this happened nor how long it all took. For this reason I'm keeping an open mind. I'm simply pointing out that God knows how to get things done quickly, if that's what He wants to do -- simple. Thankfully, I'm beginning see some humor in all the "readingbetweenthelinesitis" that goes on around here.

Edited January 18, 2014 by teddyaware

danielwoods · January 18, 2014

so you believe that the earth is around 6000 years old because God would get too bored if it took longer? If so, I really feel pity for this hyperactive God after he's sitting around at the end of a few. Million years of existence and wondering what could possibly be new and interesting that morning....nothing apparently so time to go back to bed. The pure agony of boredom......

Actually, I think that's the wrong question. The question is what is the purpose of doing it for millions of years? Why do something for millions of years?

From scripture we learn that God created in 6 days and rested on the 7th. The purpose was to demonstrate working 6 days, and resting on the 7th. God could have done it a multitude of different ways. He choose that way for a reason and a purpose, to give us an example.

It is not about learning how to alter things, it is about learning and being willing to take the time and effort if this is how its always been done to conprehend down to the smallest creature to the largest galaxy in all their parts and interactions and having tespect and delight in them themselves that one will take the time to create the perfect environment for all things to fulfill their own meaning and purpose, in their pproper times and seasons.
Why did Christ bother waiting so many years between birth and death. Surely he knew what he needed to do by the age of 12 or so, it doesn't take three years to teach what's in the Bible and he knew these people well enough he could have gotten himself executed the day he began his mission. Why take 33 years or so when he could have given himself a full grown body right after birth and one straight to work rather than wasting 30 years watching the adobe brick crack and flake....and why in the world almost 2000 before the restoration? Why bother with the restoration at all? They were expecting theComing of the Messiah to bring on the end of the earth why not?

The reason Christ waited until he was 33 is because he "became one of us..." The implication is that he wasn't one of us before that. By the very act of becoming one of us, he then took on human flesh and did what we do. Or in his case, what Jewish boy/men do. That is, they work with their father until they are age 30, then embark on their own. Which is why Jesus was a carpenter until he was 30, when he suddenly started calling people to follow him.

Robert F. Smith · January 18, 2014

Actually, I think that's the wrong question. The question is what is the purpose of doing it for millions of years? Why do something for millions of years?

From scripture we learn that God created in 6 days and rested on the 7th. The purpose was to demonstrate working 6 days, and resting on the 7th. God could have done it a multitude of different ways. He choose that way for a reason and a purpose, to give us an example.

More like billions of years, which is not much in the midst of eternity. My God is a rational and naturalistic God. He obeys and utilizes the laws of the universe, just as we will one day. There is no place for childish impatience there, in eternity.

The reason Christ waited until he was 33 is because he "became one of us..." The implication is that he wasn't one of us before that. By the very act of becoming one of us, he then took on human flesh and did what we do. Or in his case, what Jewish boy/men do. That is, they work with their father until they are age 30, then embark on their own. Which is why Jesus was a carpenter until he was 30, when he suddenly started calling people to follow him.

Jesus waited until about age 30 because that was the standard age when a rabbi began to hold forth. He also waited for his Forerunner to announce his coming. As it happens, Jesus' first public act was to preach the beginning of the Jubilee Year in a synagogue (Luke 4:17-21). None of that was accidental. It was all precisely timed. Jesus' life was a ritual from beginning to end.

And that ritual sequence continues in our own time, the great Exodus of the Mormons taking place during another Israelite Jubilee year. Just reading D&C 136 ought to drive the point home: There is nothing happenstantial about the actions of the Lord and of his sacred congregation.

danielwoods · January 18, 2014

More like billions of years, which is not much in the midst of eternity. My God is a rational and naturalistic God. He obeys and utilizes the laws of the universe, just as we will one day. There is no place for childish impatience there, in eternity.

Jesus waited until about age 30 because that was the standard age when a rabbi began to hold forth. He also waited for his Forerunner to announce his coming. As it happens, Jesus' first public act was to preach the beginning of the Jubilee Year in a synagogue (Luke 4:17-21). None of that was accidental. It was all precisely timed. Jesus' life was a ritual from beginning to end.

And that ritual sequence continues in our own time, the great Exodus of the Mormons taking place during another Israelite Jubilee year. Just reading D&C 136 ought to drive the point home: There is nothing happenstantial about the actions of the Lord and of his sacred congregation.

Billions of years for what purpose?

Robert F. Smith · January 18, 2014

Billions of years for what purpose?

Just because that's how long it takes for standard terraforming. Earth, for example, took about 5 billion years to come to its current state, and our solar system somewhat longer. The known universe is about 12 billion years old, so maybe it takes that long to make a universe. How many gods and angels does it take to bring such efforts to fruition? I don't know, but it might be a lot. This universe is teeming with life, some of it very impatient young life, much of it old and wise, taking the proper amount of time to get things done right.

Freedom · January 18, 2014

Billions of years for what purpose?

One could say 6 days for what purpose? Why have us live for 80 years? I don't understand the question. Why would God want to exist for ever?

danielwoods · January 18, 2014

One could say 6 days for what purpose? Why have us live for 80 years? I don't understand the question. Why would God want to exist for ever?

God explains why he did it in 6 days.

He also limited our years to 120 years (I don't recall the reference). Why? I think it was part of the flood judgement. Why do most live less than that? Probably from degradation of the DNA, but that's just a guess.

God's nature is eternal.

The interesting thing is that no purpose is offered for a creation lasting billions of years. As was asked, if God can create things quicker, or in anytime frame he chooses, why billions?

Bikeemikey · January 18, 2014

As I've said repeatedly: I don't know how all this happened nor how long it all took. For this reason I'm keeping an open mind. I'm simply pointing out that God knows how to get things done quickly, if that's what He wants to do -- simple. Thankfully, I'm beginning see some humor in all the "readingbetweenthelinesitis" that goes on around here.

Why does god know how to get things done quickly? Is that a requirement of being god?

The god I believe in is not omnipotent. God operates according to is obedience to law. If there is a law that requires a long duration of time to create a planet then god followed it.

Bikeemikey · January 18, 2014

The interesting thing is that no purpose is offered for a creation lasting billions of years. As was asked, if God can create things quicker, or in anytime frame he chooses, why billions?

But god can't create things faster than they can be created.

Also he rested because he was tired. There is also no mention of his evening activities during the days of creation. Do you think he slept, maybe he went dancing. Perhaps he had a glass of scotch?

danielwoods · January 18, 2014

But god can't create things faster than they can be created. Also he rested because he was tired. There is also no mention of his evening activities during the days of creation. Do you think he slept, maybe he went dancing. Perhaps he had a glass of scotch?

There is no evidence from scripture (that I know of) that indicates that God ever got tired. We are clearly talking about a different God.

God raised Jesus from the dead in a twinkling of an eye, gave him a new resurrected body. He will do the same for us, and a new Heaven and new Earth using the same timeframe. If God is capable of that, what is the purpose for taking billions of years?

teddyaware · January 18, 2014

Why does god know how to get things done quickly? Is that a requirement of being god? The god I believe in is not omnipotent. God operates according to is obedience to law. If there is a law that requires a long duration of time to create a planet then god followed it.

If you read the thread, you'll see I'm making the point that God can do things very quickly, if He wants to. The resurrection from the dead of the many souls that occurred at the time of the Saviour's own resurrection clearly demonstrates that He can take the same dust that was used to create man at the beginning of creation, and create glorious, immortal, full-grown bodies of flesh and bone in the twinkling of an eye. In this instance of the Lord's creative effort, He accomplished this great work in moments, not billions of years. So all I'm trying to say is that the Lord can create with great rapidity if He chooses to do so.

Edited January 18, 2014 by teddyaware

thesometimesaint · January 18, 2014

So, because science can't allow any intelligent agent or entity to create life therefore cellular evolution must have happened on its own. Is that what you are suggesting? Thats pretty much the answer I get from every evolutionist. Are you different?

God have to be more to us than the sum total of our ignorance.

SEE http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/17/neil-degrasse-tyson-god-has-to-mean-more-to-you-than-just-where-science-has-yet-to-tread/

thesometimesaint · January 18, 2014

God explains why he did it in 6 days.
He also limited our years to 120 years (I don't recall the reference). Why? I think it was part of the flood judgement. Why do most live less than that? Probably from degradation of the DNA, but that's just a guess.

God's nature is eternal.

The interesting thing is that no purpose is offered for a creation lasting billions of years. As was asked, if God can create things quicker, or in anytime frame he chooses, why billions?

Simply because all the natural(physical) evidence points to an earth about 4.5 billions of years old.

You might be interested that JS proposed an earth 2.5 billions of years old. His methodology was totally wrong but his conclusion was far better than the at the time prevailing 6000 years of Archbishop Ussher.

SEE http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/08/27/2555000000/

&

https://www.google.com/search?q=Archbishop+Ussher+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Rob Osborn · January 18, 2014

God have to be more to us than the sum total of our ignorance.

SEE http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/17/neil-degrasse-tyson-god-has-to-mean-more-to-you-than-just-where-science-has-yet-to-tread/

Its not ignorance, its acknowledging and placing facts logically where they belong. How long have scientists been trying to create life in the lab from nothing? For the better part of a 100 years? And how much closer are they to observing in the lab some intelligent process coming from a non-intelligent process? They are pretty much only proving the very fact and principle that intelligent processes do not, nor cannot come from non-intelligent processes preceding it. How long do we have continue on chasing some pipe dream before we can finally agree on this principle and law in nature? It seems that with the law of biogenesis we were there but then some scientists said that can't be right- that allows for God, lets go back to the drawing board!

Its not that we want to just invoke"god" whenever we can't explain something. Thats not what we are saying at all. All we are saying is that when you eliminate all other reasonable and logical ideas through scientific testing then what is left may or even "must" be right. In the theory of intelligent design, that is what we are doing. If we can eliminate the notion that non-intelligent processes create intelligent processes/intelligence as an entity, then we can be left with the reality that life (it being an intelligent process) was preceded by an intelligent cause or intelligent design. This is what science testing has shown and it has never shown anything other than this fact! Evolutionary science constantly uses words like "could have", "may have", "probably", "propose", to state how life may have come about. But none of that is based upon any evidence nor observation by science. Scientists speak of things like how cellular structure evolved and yet they have no proof to show that life contained anything lesser than fully formed cells to begin with. They fall into their own pit insisting that life "had to" evolve because the only other explanation is that there is purpose, design and intelligence in why life is here. God Forbid!

Freedom · January 18, 2014

Itsa not that we want to just invoke"god" whenever we can't explain something. Thats not what we are saying at all. All we are saying is that when you eliminate all other reasonable and logical ideas through scientific testing then what is left may or even "must" be right.

You would make a very bad scientist, doctor, engineer ect if you took this approach. What you are saying is that, if we don't know how it must be magic. This was the approach before we understood bacteria and viruses. Thank heavens we didn't follow your approach back then. We base our conclusions on the evidence, we do not surrender to magic just because we do not know the answer yet. Not knowing how to do something yet does not make it magic. For how many centuries did man try to fly before they figured it out? At what point, in your opinion, did it change from being magic to being engineering?

According to you, all realities that are and where explainable through science were done by God. So your god has been getting less and less powerful over the history of mankind I suppose. Disease used to be caused by God but suddenly he lost this ability and now it is done by micro-organism. Items used to fall to the ground by God, but now it is done by gravity. People used to get shocked by God, but now it is electricity, people used to get crushed by rocks by god, but now it is earthquakes. Need I go on? Every new discovery by science is killing your God. Science, according to your philosophy, is not godless, it is a more powerful god than your god. Eventually the god of science will kill your god and you will be left alone in misery.

There is an alternative, however. Science is created by God and is his way of teaching us his mysteries.

Freedom · January 18, 2014

God explains why he did it in 6 days.
He also limited our years to 120 years (I don't recall the reference). Why? I think it was part of the flood judgement. Why do most live less than that? Probably from degradation of the DNA, but that's just a guess.

God's nature is eternal.

The interesting thing is that no purpose is offered for a creation lasting billions of years. As was asked, if God can create things quicker, or in anytime frame he chooses, why billions?

And no purpose is given to create it in 6 days. God could have the plan of salvation completed in 15 minutes, why has he chosen thousands of years? If God could have restored the gospel in 1 hour, why did he choose 15 years? Your logic is flawed. God is not magic, he lives in a real universe with real laws. He has simply mastered all of them.

Robert F. Smith · January 18, 2014

One could say 6 days for what purpose? Why have us live for 80 years? I don't understand the question. Why would God want to exist for ever?

Places to go and things to see.

All in the midst of eternity.

Of course the 6 days are metaphorical rather than 24-hour days.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Robert F. Smith

teddyaware · January 18, 2014

And no purpose is given to create it in 6 days. God could have the plan of salvation completed in 15 minutes, why has he chosen thousands of years? If God could have restored the gospel in 1 hour, why did he choose 15 years? Your logic is flawed. God is not magic, he lives in a real universe with real laws. He has simply mastered all of them.

You're taking things to the point of absurdity. The fact of the matter is that it does take some sufficient time on earth to learn and grow by experience. For example, the average US citizen today lives to be about 78.7 years before death. Add to those nearly eighty years some time spent after death in the spirit word, then add another thousand years spent on earth as a resurrected being during the millennium, and then some additional years just prior to the final judgment and you end up with maybe 2,000 years of experience on earth prior to the final judgment. Comparing 2,000 years to gain the necessary experience to move on to exaltation with the billions of years in the organic evolution scenarios and now you have an enormous gulf.

You must understand that I don't profess to know how the Lord created life on earth. I just bring up these points in the hope that it will give pause to those who think they already know for sure how life and man were created.

Even the scriptures themselves speak of the earthly children of God needing only 7,000 years for the whole process of learning, testing and final judgment to take place. Comparing 7,000 years to 2 1/2 billion years is an almost infinitely wide gulf. Read D&C 88 for yourself and you'll see the Lord Himself says 7,000 years of temporal existence are all that's necessary for His program to be accomplished:

108 And then shall the first angel again sound his trump in the ears of all living, and reveal the secret acts of men, and the mighty works of God in the first thousand years.

109 And then shall the second angel sound his trump, and reveal the secret acts of men, and the thoughts and intents of their hearts, and the mighty works of God in the second thousand years—

110 And so on, until the seventh angel shall sound his trump; and he shall stand forth upon the land and upon the sea, and swear in the name of him who sitteth upon the throne, that there shall be time no longer; and Satan shall be bound, that old serpent, who is called the devil, and shall not be loosed for the space of a thousand years. (D&C 88)

So according to the above, it will take 7,000 years of temporal existence, not 2 1/2 billion years, and not just 15 minutes, for all that needs to happen to happen. And remember, I'm just the messenger, so don't throw rhetorical stones at me -- throw them at the prophets who put these ideas into my head.

Edited January 18, 2014 by teddyaware

DarkScythe · January 18, 2014

A Wizard did it

Rob Osborn · January 18, 2014

You would make a very bad scientist, doctor, engineer ect if you took this approach. What you are saying is that, if we don't know how it must be magic. This was the approach before we understood bacteria and viruses. Thank heavens we didn't follow your approach back then. We base our conclusions on the evidence, we do not surrender to magic just because we do not know the answer yet. Not knowing how to do something yet does not make it magic. For how many centuries did man try to fly before they figured it out? At what point, in your opinion, did it change from being magic to being engineering?

According to you, all realities that are and where explainable through science were done by God. So your god has been getting less and less powerful over the history of mankind I suppose. Disease used to be caused by God but suddenly he lost this ability and now it is done by micro-organism. Items used to fall to the ground by God, but now it is done by gravity. People used to get shocked by God, but now it is electricity, people used to get crushed by rocks by god, but now it is earthquakes. Need I go on? Every new discovery by science is killing your God. Science, according to your philosophy, is not godless, it is a more powerful god than your god. Eventually the god of science will kill your god and you will be left alone in misery.
There is an alternative, however. Science is created by God and is his way of teaching us his mysteries.

When are you guys ever going to realize that the emergence of intelligence is the cause of intelligence preceding it?

thesometimesaint · January 18, 2014

Its not ignorance, its acknowledging and placing facts logically where they belong. How long have scientists been trying to create life in the lab from nothing? For the better part of a 100 years? And how much closer are they to observing in the lab some intelligent process coming from a non-intelligent process? They are pretty much only proving the very fact and principle that intelligent processes do not, nor cannot come from non-intelligent processes preceding it. How long do we have continue on chasing some pipe dream before we can finally agree on this principle and law in nature? It seems that with the law of biogenesis we were there but then some scientists said that can't be right- that allows for God, lets go back to the drawing board!
Its not that we want to just invoke"god" whenever we can't explain something. Thats not what we are saying at all. All we are saying is that when you eliminate all other reasonable and logical ideas through scientific testing then what is left may or even "must" be right. In the theory of intelligent design, that is what we are doing. If we can eliminate the notion that non-intelligent processes create intelligent processes/intelligence as an entity, then we can be left with the reality that life (it being an intelligent process) was preceded by an intelligent cause or intelligent design. This is what science testing has shown and it has never shown anything other than this fact! Evolutionary science constantly uses words like "could have", "may have", "probably", "propose", to state how life may have come about. But none of that is based upon any evidence nor observation by science. Scientists speak of things like how cellular structure evolved and yet they have no proof to show that life contained anything lesser than fully formed cells to begin with. They fall into their own pit insisting that life "had to" evolve because the only other explanation is that there is purpose, design and intelligence in why life is here. God Forbid!

Actually spontaneous generation was disproven centuries ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Redi

No we aren't trying to create life from nothing. We're trying to understand how simple chemicals interacted to form life as we know it. You are saying that God through some unexplainable process put dirt together and formed man.

Again you insist on putting the cart before the horse. The simple fact that some thing exists doesn't mandate that some thing else must exist also. IE; Fires exist, but that doesn't mandate that fire departments also must exist.

It takes at least some intelligence to explain how some thing works to another intelligence. That fact doesn't mandate the existence of that thing. IE; Tolkien invented a whole Middle Earth of Hobbits, Elves, Dwarfs, Men, Ents, Orks, and far nastier things, but I highly doubt he believed it was reality.

Again it is Abiogenesis:

Abiogenesis or biopoiesis is the natural process by which life arises from non-living matter such as simple organic compounds.

Biogenesis:

Biogenesis is any process by which lifeforms produce other lifeforms.

They are two separate but related discussions.

All the available evidence so far is that evolution works. That there is no known natural process by which life came to be and changed form without Abiogenesis and Evolution. As a Saint and a scientist I have no problem with God using natural processes in forming life on this planet.

Again you put the cart before the horse. The existence, no matter how valuable we humans think it is, does not mandate the existence of another thing. IE; The existence of peaches doesn't mandate the existence of apples. Just like the modern dessert banana isn't because it was made by God for man. It is the result of chance mutation and human intervention.

We don't have film at 11 on when or how Abiogenesis took place, and how Evolution takes place(It is all at the DNA level). We form a hypothesis and then test that hypothesis, to observe for ourselves if that hypothesis holds up to scientific scrutiny. Religion(God) no matter how valuable humans find it doesn't withstand that scrutiny. I can give you countless examples of where religion fails that test. but my purpose is not to denigrate religion or those whom practice their chosen one. But to show you the limits of religion. Religion(God) has to be taken on faith. In the LDS construct of God and Faith faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Science can not use unseen(unseeable) evidence and still be considered science. Saying you saw something is fine, saying you have faith in God is fine. But with science you need something more than just you saw it and/or you have faith. That is why I keep linking to actual scientists and scientific organization like the NAS to support my ideas. IE; Seeing "Flying Saucers" in no more common in astronomers than in the general public. It is in fact it is far less common in astronomers than the general public. Why is that? Because they know what the heck they are looking at.

Pay close attention here. Biogenesis is a scientific theory that has confirmation in nature.

SEE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o5QlNrUBGw

Abiogenesis is a scientific theory finding evidence in the lab and nature. Beginning with part 1 through part 5.

Is it possible at some unknown future date for it to be disproven? Sure; that is just the nature of science. We work very hard to disprove every theory IE: As great as Newton was, and he was a certifiable genius, Einstein proved him wrong on the very large scale and Quantum Mechanics proved him wrong on the very small scale. However we still use all three today. We used Newtons ideas to throw a man made satellite out our solar system with split second timing. Evolution has withstood every scientific test thrown at it so far for the last 150 years. Abiogenesis has withstood every scientific test thrown at it so far.

Invocations of God or Godlike forces isn't science.

The Nehor · January 18, 2014

Its not ignorance, its acknowledging and placing facts logically where they belong. How long have scientists been trying to create life in the lab from nothing? For the better part of a 100 years? And how much closer are they to observing in the lab some intelligent process coming from a non-intelligent process? They are pretty much only proving the very fact and principle that intelligent processes do not, nor cannot come from non-intelligent processes preceding it. How long do we have continue on chasing some pipe dream before we can finally agree on this principle and law in nature? It seems that with the law of biogenesis we were there but then some scientists said that can't be right- that allows for God, lets go back to the drawing board!
Its not that we want to just invoke"god" whenever we can't explain something. Thats not what we are saying at all. All we are saying is that when you eliminate all other reasonable and logical ideas through scientific testing then what is left may or even "must" be right. In the theory of intelligent design, that is what we are doing. If we can eliminate the notion that non-intelligent processes create intelligent processes/intelligence as an entity, then we can be left with the reality that life (it being an intelligent process) was preceded by an intelligent cause or intelligent design. This is what science testing has shown and it has never shown anything other than this fact! Evolutionary science constantly uses words like "could have", "may have", "probably", "propose", to state how life may have come about. But none of that is based upon any evidence nor observation by science. Scientists speak of things like how cellular structure evolved and yet they have no proof to show that life contained anything lesser than fully formed cells to begin with. They fall into their own pit insisting that life "had to" evolve because the only other explanation is that there is purpose, design and intelligence in why life is here. God Forbid!

There are no scientific tests for evolution and the creation of life. There have been minor attempts to explore possibilities but no definitive tests. You can't test a historical process like that.

To give you an analogy this is like you claiming to be George Washington and trying to overthrow the government. When you are arrested and fail you claim the American Revolution clearly never happened because you tested the process and it did not work.

Freedom · January 18, 2014

When are you guys ever going to realize that the emergence of intelligence is the cause of intelligence preceding it?

When are you going to realize that you have provided no evidence to support your claims. The intelligence that produced us are the remarkable laws of nature that God put in place. These laws, when left to their own, have resulted in the fruition of Gods plan. No bazaar unexplainable miracles, just the natural fulfillment of natural laws. God works through simple means, not imagined miracles.

You seem to be avoiding the obvious logic of my response. There have been many phenomena that man could not explain and, as a result, attributed to God; now, however, we realize that these phenomena are easily explainable and can be duplicated both in the lab and in nature. If you lived 500 years ago you would have been arguing with a scientist about the cause of illness. Now you are arguing about evolution.

The Nehor · January 18, 2014

When are you guys ever going to realize that the emergence of intelligence is the cause of intelligence preceding it?

Probably never actually. The statement doesn't make any sense unless you are arguing that God (or some other entity) evolved and then went back in time and created us. That is what this sentence say.

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