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How Many Christians Will Lose Their Faith After Bill Nye Trounces Ken Ham?

Hamilton Porter

By Hamilton Porter
in General Discussions

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thesometimesaint Grand Master

thesometimesaint

Posted
Posted

You've explained the whole process to me in less than 60 seconds and I already get it. Sitting around for a hundred million years watching algae multiply makes watching paint dry seem like watching Godfather ll.

 

What is a few billion years to eternal beings?

Freedom Grand Master

Freedom

Posted
Posted

So pyromaniacs and arson investigation squads are the same because they both study fire. Got it. :P

Or more correctly, which is how it is expressed in modern English but clearly not referring to a 24 hour day since, in this literal interpretation the sun was not created yet and therefore, when the said day it is absurd to claim that it was a 24 hour day. Why would he? Because this is how physics works and God follows the basic laws of physics - otherwise it would be magic, and we all know what God thinks of those guys. 

thesometimesaint Grand Master

thesometimesaint

Posted
Posted

Or more correctly, which is how it is expressed in modern English but clearly not referring to a 24 hour day since, in this literal interpretation the sun was not created yet and therefore, when the said day it is absurd to claim that it was a 24 hour day. Why would he? Because this is how physics works and God follows the basic laws of physics - otherwise it would be magic, and we all know what God thinks of those guys. 

 

We're not literalistic, or at least we're not supposed to be. ;)

Rob Osborn Grand Master

Rob Osborn

Posted
Posted

I am tired of explaining evolutionists their own theory so I will try a new approach on this critical issue. It seems that evolutionists only want to discuss the evolution of life after all of its parts have already evolved. How did cells evolve? I dont want some maybe this or maybe that, give me the "facts" regarding how cells did evolve. Or does evolutionary theory not cover this either?

Freedom Grand Master

Freedom

Posted
Posted

I am tired of explaining evolutionists their own theory so I will try a new approach on this critical issue. It seems that evolutionists only want to discuss the evolution of life after all of its parts have already evolved. How did cells evolve? I dont want some maybe this or maybe that, give me the "facts" regarding how cells did evolve. Or does evolutionary theory not cover this either?

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2bDetailsoforigin.shtml

 

Tell me, do you know? Other than saying 'God did it'?

The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

Posted
Posted

Of all the posts I've read in this vein in the last two weeks or so, this is the only one that's caused me to look up with a start. Very interesting perspective! It causes me to seriously wonder that if the all-powerful, all-knowing God created this world to be a testing place for His spirit children -- a place where His program of bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of man can be accomplished -- why in the world couldn't He have figured out a quicker and much more efficient way to get His spirit children down here than organic evolution? Why did He opt for this excruciatingly slow process to accomplish His goal? If He has the power to recreate millions upon millions of tabernacled human beings in the twinkling of an eye, in the resurrection, why for heavens sake did He chose snail-paced evolution at the beginning of the process? He's soon going to prove He can make very short work of embodying billions of deceased spirits in seconds, so why the creeping crawl of billons of years before the first embodiment of His spirit child Adam? 

 

The answer to this mystery may have to come from gospel philosophers who might be able to come up with a reasonable rational as to why God will choose to utilize extremely fast processes when creating the new heaven and the new earth, juxtaposed to why He chose to use an extremely slow creative process  (evolution) at the beginning of His creation? 

 

I for one think the New Earth will take some time to complete. As to why it took so long to complete "time is measured only unto man". Does it make a difference to God how long it takes. More tellingly, did it make a difference to us?

 

It also assumes the rather egotistical position that the earth was created solely for us and has no other purposes. We do not know that for certain. Our doctrine tells us animals are immortal too. Plants too maybe? Think of how much lived before. Something was going on there and it is probably important.

 

I am tired of explaining evolutionists their own theory so I will try a new approach on this critical issue. It seems that evolutionists only want to discuss the evolution of life after all of its parts have already evolved. How did cells evolve? I dont want some maybe this or maybe that, give me the "facts" regarding how cells did evolve. Or does evolutionary theory not cover this either?

 

Expecting them to have all the answers and be able to prove a historical fact is unfair. It would be like someone insisting that you prove exactly where Moses was born. You can have plausible theories but it occurred so long ago we cannot establish definitively what actually happened. You're demanding something they never claimed to have or have any expectation of having.

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Rob Osborn Grand Master

Rob Osborn

Posted
Posted

I for one think the New Earth will take some time to complete. As to why it took so long to complete "time is measured only unto man". Does it make a difference to God how long it takes. More tellingly, did it make a difference to us?

 

It also assumes the rather egotistical position that the earth was created solely for us and has no other purposes. We do not know that for certain. Our doctrine tells us animals are immortal too. Plants too maybe? Think of how much lived before. Something was going on there and it is probably important.

 

 

Expecting them to have all the answers and be able to prove a historical fact is unfair. It would be like someone insisting that you prove exactly where Moses was born. You can have plausible theories but it occurred so long ago we cannot establish definitively what actually happened. You're demanding something they never claimed to have or have any expectation of having.

But they insist evolution of common descent is "fact". I'm just taking them to task on this. If its fact- then prove it!

The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

Posted
Posted

But they insist evolution of common descent is "fact". I'm just taking them to task on this. If its fact- then prove it!

What standard of evidence are you insisting on?

Rob Osborn Grand Master

Rob Osborn

Posted
Posted

What standard of evidence are you insisting on?

something besides- we share similar DNA or, our skull is similar to an apes therfore we must share a common ancestor. You know- typical evolutionist jargon. Lets see some real evidence not only mapping out the exact and precise details of how one species evolved into another but also documented proof of this actually happening. There is no such evidence of this in the geologic column.

thesometimesaint Grand Master

thesometimesaint

Posted
Posted

So, because science can't allow any intelligent agent or entity to create life therefore cellular evolution must have happened on its own. Is that what you are suggesting? Thats pretty much the answer I get from every evolutionist. Are you different?

 

Science by definition can not impose any God or Godlike force on science. It makes hash of science.

 

Of course I'm just one of those imbecile scientists.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/17/idaho-republican-opposes-law-aimed-at-stopping-faith-healing-child-deaths/

thesometimesaint Grand Master

thesometimesaint

Posted
Posted

If by "FACT" you mean- "we have a lot of consensus of opinion amongst fellow evolutionists" then I guess so. The "THEORY" of common descent by evolution is a set of proposed ideas- a hypothesis, yet to be proven scientifically to verify if it is true or false.

 

You do know what a scientific theory is don't you?

Rob Osborn Grand Master

Rob Osborn

Posted
Posted

You do know what a scientific theory is don't you?

yeah, its something that isn't a "fact". Evolutionists like to confuse people though by saying a theory can indeed be "fact". But the rest of the intelligent world sees right through this false notion. A scientific theory is something not yet proven by science to be a fact but accepted as if it were. Intelligent design is a theory as is abiogenesis, as is the theory of common descent- they are all theories accepted by some of their peers as a viable explanation of facts or phenomena

The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

Posted
Posted

something besides- we share similar DNA or, our skull is similar to an apes therfore we must share a common ancestor. You know- typical evolutionist jargon. Lets see some real evidence not only mapping out the exact and precise details of how one species evolved into another but also documented proof of this actually happening. There is no such evidence of this in the geologic column.

Your request is unreasonable. Even if evolution was the sole method of species change we would not expect to find what you demand.

yeah, its something that isn't a "fact". Evolutionists like to confuse people though by saying a theory can indeed be "fact". But the rest of the intelligent world sees right through this false notion. A scientific theory is something not yet proven by science to be a fact but accepted as if it were. Intelligent design is a theory as is abiogenesis, as is the theory of common descent- they are all theories accepted by some of their peers as a viable explanation of facts or phenomena

Are you arguing with smug dumb people on the internet or actual students of evolution? They find facts all the time and form a theory based on them. The theory is not a fact in the way quantum mechanics are though there are facts behind them. If you are arguing with morons who confuse the two my advice would be to give it up. You can't argue with an idiot. They just drag you down with them and beat you due to their experience fighting at that level.

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strappinglad Grand Master

strappinglad

Posted
Posted

There is the theory of gravity and the fact of gravity. The effects of gravity and the formulas which are applied to accommodate those effects are well known. Gravity itself is a mystery which still needs explaining. Sure there are some good theories but scientists still debate the hows and whys . Even electricity, as well studied as it is, has some areas that are not well understood.

To say that evolution is a fact is true if we agree that evolution means that, over time , a particular creature will change a beak size or a color of skin . Animal husbandry has shown many examples of this. Mind you, pigs will revert to their wild form if left to themselves without human intervention. There seems to be a type of ' regression toward the mean ' type of force which maintains a creature within some bounds.

On the other hand, to say that it is a fact that ferns and felines had a common ancestor is very debatable.

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teddyaware Grand Master

teddyaware

Posted
Posted (edited)

Then lets all hope that you are never made responsible for the countries agriculture industry. Yikes.

Why is it you always seem to dig yourself into a whole? The fact of the matter is that many, many people have become quite proficient in things agricultural after a few years in college and some on the job training. Therefore, observing algae grow over tens of millions of years seems an unnecessary step on the road to becoming a knowledgeable agriculturalist.

Edited by teddyaware
The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

Posted
Posted

Why is it you always seem to dig yourself into a whole? The fact of the matter is that many, many people have become quite proficient in things agricultural after a few years in college and some on the job training. Therefore, observing algae grow over tens of millions of years seems an unnecessary step on the road to becoming a knowledgeable agriculturalist.

Some might find it fun, those that find wonder in things.

beauty.png

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teddyaware Grand Master

teddyaware

Posted
Posted

I for one think the New Earth will take some time to complete. As to why it took so long to complete "time is measured only unto man". Does it make a difference to God how long it takes. More tellingly, did it make a difference to us?

 

It also assumes the rather egotistical position that the earth was created solely for us and has no other purposes. We do not know that for certain. Our doctrine tells us animals are immortal too. Plants too maybe? Think of how much lived before. Something was going on there and it is probably important.

 

 

Expecting them to have all the answers and be able to prove a historical fact is unfair. It would be like someone insisting that you prove exactly where Moses was born. You can have plausible theories but it occurred so long ago we cannot establish definitively what actually happened. You're demanding something they never claimed to have or have any expectation of having.

I don't think it's necessarily egotistical to say the earth was created primarily as a testing place for the sons and daughters of God, because it's only repeating what God Himself has said on several occasions.

 

As far as the possibility for varying perceptions of time, I anticipated that response and believe there's likely at least some merit to it. But if one divides 100,000,000 years by a thousand years (1000 to 1 said to be the Lord's measurement of time), that's still 100,000 years of watching algae grow... for what?

 

The main 'monkey wrench' in the whole evolution thing for me is that if the scriptures are to be believed, God already has and will create new glorified and immortal bodies for mankind in the mere twinkling of an eye, so this clearly demonstrates he can cause significant changes to a specie without those changes having to take billions of years. In the end, this gospel truth is a another point to seriously consider in the midst of this debate.

The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

Posted
Posted

I don't think it's necessarily egotistical to say the earth was created primarily as a testing place for the sons and daughters of God, because it's only repeating what God Himself has said on several occasions.

 

As far as the possibility for varying perceptions of time, I anticipated that response and believe there's likely at least some merit to it. But if one divides 100,000,000 years by a thousand years (1000 to 1 said to be the Lord's measurement of time), that's still 100,000 years of watching algae grow... for what?

 

The main 'monkey wrench' in the whole evolution thing for me is that if the scriptures are to be believed, God already has and will create new glorified and immortal bodies for mankind in the mere twinkling of an eye, so this clearly demonstrates he can cause significant changes to a specie without those changes having to take billions of years. In the end, this gospel truth is a another point to seriously consider in the midst of this debate.

The world right now is primarily for us but was it the same story 20,000 years ago? No, hard to believe it was primarily about us then.

You misunderstood my comment on time. I was not talking about compressing time. I was talking about being outside of it wher oast, present, and future are one and there is no wait.

It is true God can do amazing things quickly but one thing I have noticed is that he rarely acts when his creations and creatures can act instead. If, as the Book of Moses says, the earth has a spirit was it not growing through obedience. We are told that some premortal spirits were involved in creating the earth so they were growing and learning as well. I made raccoons. Do you like them?

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teddyaware Grand Master

teddyaware

Posted
Posted

Some might find it fun, those that find wonder in things.

beauty.png

The cartoon's cute and makes a good point. My point is that I don't think it would take godlike beings (what we were before coming to earth and experiencing the fall) a hundred million years to figure out how one strain of algae could mutate into several other strains of algae. Second thought, maybe even heaven has special education courses for some (I would have been one of them).

teddyaware Grand Master

teddyaware

Posted
Posted

The world right now is primarily for us but was it the same story 20,000 years ago? No, hard to believe it was primarily about us then.

You misunderstood my comment on time. I was not talking about compressing time. I was talking about being outside of it wher oast, present, and future are one and there is no wait.

It is true God can do amazing things quickly but one thing I have noticed is that he rarely acts when his creations and creatures can act instead. If, as the Book of Moses says, the earth has a spirit was it not growing through obedience. We are told that some premortal spirits were involved in creating the earth so they were growing and learning as well. I made raccoons. Do you like them?

Their great! I was at the Bronx Zoo a few years ago, and though I saw all kinds of exotic animals that day, I was astonished to realize the raccoons were my favorite. Their clowning and antics really gave me a good belly laugh.

Calm Grand Master

Calm

Posted
Posted

Why is it you always seem to dig yourself into a whole? The fact of the matter is that many, many people have become quite proficient in things agricultural after a few years in college and some on the job training. Therefore, observing algae grow over tens of millions of years seems an unnecessary step on the road to becoming a knowledgeable agriculturalist.

so you believe that the earth is around 6000 years old because God would get too bored if it took longer? If so, I really feel pity for this hyperactive God after he's sitting around at the end of a few. Million years of existence and wondering what could possibly be new and interesting that morning....nothing apparently so time to go back to bed. The pure agony of boredom......
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