Duncan Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) The only real time I buy stuff online on a sunday is church stuff, like books and junk. Other items like vintage Dukes of Hazzard Goblets and Dinner plate wear set well that can wait till monday Edited October 30, 2013 by Duncan 1
drums12 Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 I think it's common to use "the Spirit of the law" as an excuse to disobey the 4th, or any other commandment. The true Spirit of any law can't be obtained without first obeying the letter of it. This, in my estimation, is why the law of Moses was required as a "school-master" for Israel. Having said this, please don't misunderstand me. Obeying the letter of the law for the wrong reasons (the most oft-used example being that of the Pharisees) doesn't lead us to the Spirit of the law. And having said both of these statements, I'll confess that I have struggled with keeping the Sabbath the last few years, so I'm by no means judging anyone else.
drums12 Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 I think it's common to use "the Spirit of the law" as an excuse to disobey the 4th, or any other commandment. The true Spirit of any law can't be obtained without first obeying the letter of it. This, in my estimation, is why the law of Moses was required as a "school-master" for Israel. Having said this, please don't misunderstand me. Obeying the letter of the law for the wrong reasons (the most oft-used example being that of the Pharisees) doesn't lead us to the Spirit of the law. And having said both of these statements, I'll confess that I have struggled with keeping the Sabbath the last few years, so I'm by no means judging anyone else.
drums12 Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 I think it's common to use "the Spirit of the law" as an excuse to disobey the 4th, or any other commandment. The true Spirit of any law can't be obtained without first obeying the letter of it. This, in my estimation, is why the law of Moses was required as a "school-master" for Israel. Having said this, please don't misunderstand me. Obeying the letter of the law for the wrong reasons (the most oft-used example being that of the Pharisees) doesn't lead us to the Spirit of the law. And having said both of these statements, I'll confess that I have struggled with keeping the Sabbath the last few years, so I'm by no means judging anyone else.
drums12 Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 I apologize for the 3 consecutive posts of the same thing. My connection kept timing out, but obviously my post was getting through.
Tacenda Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 I apologize for the 3 consecutive posts of the same thing. My connection kept timing out, but obviously my post was getting through. We heard you loud and clear! I like what you said for the most part. Jesus came so that we can get away from "the law" per se. I think we should be worrying more about the first two commandments. Then the rest become easy to follow. 1
Stargazer Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 According to Gospel Principles, "Our prophets have told us that we should not shop, hunt, fish, attend sports events, or participate in similar activities on that day". If you really follow the prophet's counsel, you should also follow the 'spirit' of the law, and not seeksome technicality to break it. Regards,Jim I was joking, Jim. Did you miss that, somehow? By the way, you seem to spend a lot more time in LDS manuals than the LDS themselves do. We are certainly fortunate to have someone watching out for our proper observances of all the niceties. It's a tough job, but I suppose someone has to do it.
Stargazer Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 Typically though, the counsel not to shop on Sundays is about not making another person work on Sunday and thus force them (or have their employer force them) to break the Sabbath just so you can buy some gummy bears or something. That's why the issue of vending machines and ordering online can be a quandary. It is shopping on Sunday, but it doesn't make anyone work on Sunday.... Hence, shopping online on Sunday could be described as actually keeping the Spirit of the law, even while breaking the letter of it. In the original OT scripture that Sabbath shopping comes up, 31 And if the people of the land bring ware or any victuals on the sabbath day to sell, that we would not buy it of them on the sabbath, or on the holy day: and that we would leave the seventh year, and the exaction of every debt. - Nehemiah 10:31 It is apparently the buying of something from someone that is the violation, i.e. making them work on Sunday is the violation. If a someone is not involved I don't see how this is a problem. It is not the going online which is Sabbath-breaking -- if it were we would not go to lds.org to watch conference on Sunday.
Stargazer Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 We heard you loud and clear! I like what you said for the most part. Jesus came so that we can get away from "the law" per se. I think we should be worrying more about the first two commandments. Then the rest become easy to follow. Now, there's something sensible, all right. Good call, Tacenda.
theplains Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 I was joking, Jim. Did you miss that, somehow? No. I saw that. I figured you were joking. By the way, you seem to spend a lot more time in LDS manuals than the LDS themselves do. I can't be sure of that. I suppose some are more well read than myself. It's a tough job, but I suppose someone has to do it. Not really. I like to especially read the old, out of print stuff. It gives a very good snapshot of how today's LDS Church differs from the original in her teachings. Thanks,Jim
sdc999 Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 According to Gospel Principles, "Our prophets have told us that we should not shop, hunt, fish, attend sports events, or participate in similar activities on that day". If you really follow the prophet's counsel, you should also follow the 'spirit' of the law, and not seeksome technicality to break it. Regards,JimThis gets beat to death but there should always be an asterisk after that which reads, 'unless you are a famous athlete who will represent the church in a good light and return to do firesides. Then you will be exempt from the prophet recommendations.'
Stargazer Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 This gets beat to death but there should always be an asterisk after that which reads, 'unless you are a famous athlete who will represent the church in a good light and return to do firesides. Then you will be exempt from the prophet recommendations.' Also getting a free pass on this this are: police; firefighters; doctors and nurses; and soldiers. All of these are required by their professions to work on the Sabbath, from time to time. A professional athlete (or someone working in the field of pro athletics) is likewise in a profession which sometimes requires working on the Sabbath. If a policeman gets a pass, so does the athlete.
omni Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 Also getting a free pass on this this are: police; firefighters; doctors and nurses; and soldiers. All of these are required by their professions to work on the Sabbath, from time to time. A professional athlete (or someone working in the field of pro athletics) is likewise in a profession which sometimes requires working on the Sabbath. If a policeman gets a pass, so does the athlete.Don't forget newspapers, television and radio stations of which the church owns many.
thesometimesaint Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 And don't forget the people who read newspapers, watch television, or listen the radio, use the internet to enjoy General Conference(s). We can become all so pharisaical that we forget what is the purpose of the Sabbath.
cinepro Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 According to Gospel Principles, "Our prophets have told us that we should not shop, hunt, fish, attend sports events, or participate in similar activities on that day". If you really follow the prophet's counsel, you should also follow the 'spirit' of the law, and not seeksome technicality to break it. Regards,Jim It occurs to me that online purchases are to "shopping" as watching sports on TV is to "attending sports events".
cinepro Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 Our ward young women's program has a tradition of taking new beehives out for ice cream for their first activity (usually a Wednesday night). They weren't able to do this for one recent young girl, so one of the beehive advisors asked the Young Women's President if it would be okay if they took the class out for ice cream during the third hour on Sunday instead. The answer was almost more surprising than the question...
sdc999 Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 Also getting a free pass on this this are: police; firefighters; doctors and nurses; and soldiers. All of these are required by their professions to work on the Sabbath, from time to time. A professional athlete (or someone working in the field of pro athletics) is likewise in a profession which sometimes requires working on the Sabbath. If a policeman gets a pass, so does the athlete.Yes I do agree but - Eli Herring! I have heard the Eli Herring story 3,4 maybe even 5 times from the pulpit (once in a stake conference). Herring, destined to make a lot of money in the NFL but turned it down to be a teacher, and more specific, to not work on Sundays. He was heralded as the epitome of Mormonism and 'choosing' to keep the Sabbath Holy. The sacrifice brother Herring was willing to make should be inspirational to each and every one of you here today was quoted.But a little more to your reply. Should the family of the athlete not go and support Mom or Dad in their profession? Why does Billy get to go see the Cowboys this Sunday and I don't Mom? Because the prophet said to avoid attending sports events on Sunday and Billy's Dad is cooler than your Dad so he gets to go.
pogi Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) no offense but do you really think the Holy Ghost would tell you one way or the other to shop online on sunday? Maybe I am a believer that the Spirit tells us stuff for the bigger things than shopping online on sunday If we are open to it, the spirit will teach us "all" things which we should do (2 Nephi 32). I council with the Lord in all of my doings, both big and small and he doesn't seem to discriminate in my experience. Edited November 1, 2013 by pogi
omni Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 And don't forget the people who read newspapers, watch television, or listen the radio, use the internet to enjoy General Conference(s). We can become all so pharisaical that we forget what is the purpose of the Sabbath.Are you insinuating that the church owns all of these media outlets in order for its members to enjoy conference?
Stone holm Posted November 2, 2013 Posted November 2, 2013 The Sabbbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Let's not get too Pharisaical about it.But the question is whether man was made for the Internet, or the Internet made for man?
thesometimesaint Posted November 2, 2013 Posted November 2, 2013 Are you insinuating that the church owns all of these media outlets in order for its members to enjoy conference? I'm not insinuating anything. I am saying it outright. Since its first broadcast in 1929, the program has run continually and has been broadcast over 4,000 times. The unbroken length of broadcasts makes Music and the Spoken Word the oldest continuous nationwide network broadcast in the world.
Schenault Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 In my opinion, keeping the sabbath holy in the respect of purchases, sports etc is that we are not to partake in any activity that requires another to work or ourselves. I believe it is alright to get a soda from a machine, but maybe not from a store. I am not encouraging someone to work on Sunday when I buy it from a machine, but I am by going to the store to buy it. I think sometimes we look at the letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law. I am not LDS, but that is just my opinion. 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 Did Steve Young break the Sabbath all those years in the NFL?
Traela Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 Also getting a free pass on this this are: police; firefighters; doctors and nurses; and soldiers. All of these are required by their professions to work on the Sabbath, from time to time. A professional athlete (or someone working in the field of pro athletics) is likewise in a profession which sometimes requires working on the Sabbath. If a policeman gets a pass, so does the athlete.Police, firefighters, medical personnel, and even soldiers are all oxen-from-the-mire extractors. The same can't be said for professional athletes. Is it permissible (or more permissible) to shop on Sunday if it is a Jewish-, Muslim-, or Seventh Day Adventist-owned company?
omni Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 I'm not insinuating anything. I am saying it outright. Since its first broadcast in 1929, the program has run continually and has been broadcast over 4,000 times. The unbroken length of broadcasts makes Music and the Spoken Word the oldest continuous nationwide network broadcast in the world. The church owns or has owned dozens of radio stations that never broadcasted conference, yet continued to have its employees work on Sundays. The church doesn't need to own KSL and BYUtv in order to broadcast conference, they could simply purchase the program time slot or broadcast it to the stake centers as they do now.
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