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Why People Become Inactive?


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Maybe I shouldn't be posting this right now because my own frame of mind is so awful, owing to the fact that I have been ill for over a Month and have to take awful, really awful Antibiotics for another three weeks. And NO, no matter how much I plead with them, they would not do a PICC line. :( So, you can join my pitty party or not.

 

In our ward, right in the middle of a really anti religion area of the city, we have about 275 people who are inactive. I have offered my help and input and been basically told to shut up. I was really surprised to be sitting in a small group of active Mormon women and hear some of their comments about various church issues.  One big surprise was the comment about the shmarmy voice of certain Mormon women speakers. I would like to be able to speak shmarmy. Where do I learn that? 

 

Another comment I heard was that Mormons are programmed. I would say "You Bet", and I wish that someone had Mormon programmed me when I was young. I will not even try to tell you about my programming, and I think that Mormon programming is far superior. :)

 

One thing that bothers me is the number of messages I sit through where various speakers are extolling the virtues of attending the Temple. For me it gets sickening because I will likely never see the inside of a Temple, except the Kirtland one, and that cost me $3. Has anyone considered, do they even care how much that hurts the Templeless?  Sometimes I wonder if they do this by design in hopes that losers will leave.

 

Sometimes, or mostly perhaps, people leave because they aren't willing.  30 years ago, the idea that I would quit drinking was just silly. The idea that I would scramble to find a way to please God was just nuts to me.

 

Now I scramble a lot.

 

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It just doesn't occur to most members that there are individuals who are not allowed to go through the temple due to no fault of their own who might want to go for solid reasons. Many would probably think only the more developmentally challenged are the only ones limited that way as they are seen as not accountable and don't receive baptism...at least in this life.*****

I wonder if they are proxy baptised?

In the past (as long as I've been alive), we have been a very homogenous group, especially in what is openly discussed as we tend to be very polite and won't speak harshly of others we view as members in public (well except for petty stuff like having certain annoying voices)...the whole "well if they've repented, we shouldn't hold past sins against" mentality taken way too far at times. I have heard of this kind of not sharing information needed to protect fellow Saints from those less honest happening on occasion in places enough to believe it is part of the culture. Given a community intent on giving service and tending to see other members as living high standards, it is a recipe for some major disasters where members rip off their fellow Saints and the victim ends up being viewed as unkind or unforgiving if they take them to court to recover costs, etc.

So chances are IMO that we are much more diverse underneath than it appears because we have generally accepted wearing pretty much the same style of clothing at church and limit ourselves on certain subjects in public churchnsettings. Many may have adopted the same style in our homes, but my experience is that most shed the conformity with their Sunday clothing and are naturally as diverse as the greater society of their local environment...minus word of wisdom, the dress code and language.

The "voice" may be one of two versions..the first is the Primary voice where women have picked up talking in front of members as if they were children (thus in Primary), the second one I've heard referred to as the Conference voice as there is a certain smooth rhythmic style that is present in many GAs that has spread to many others. I interpret it as thinking sacred things need to be spoken of in reverent tones...which gets translated to being low key and uptight at the same time. :). It is similar to reading poetry in all the same sing song up and down rhythm rather than using the punctuation as a guide and changing speed and emphasis depending on what is to be conveyed.

It is not something I usually notice though. I tend to focus on the visual rather than the verbal in the tonal sense...

I don't think I do it myself as I've always talked to children in the same way I talk to adults...just with less vocabulary. My Grandmas had their own version....the one that had the underlying message of "you are too young to understand so don't argue with me or ask me questions and just do what I tell you to do because I always right"...my Grandmas were very old school even when they were trying to be fun.....so I made a vow not to do it and it is only when I am tickling babies and dogs that I might forget usually...but that is more the "goo goo" voice at least.

Edited by calmoriah
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It just doesn't occur to most members that there are individuals who are not allowed to go through the temple due to no fault of their own who might want to go for solid reasons. Many would probably think only the more developmentally challenged are the only ones limited that way as they are seen as not accountable and don't receive baptism...at least in this life.*****

I wonder if they are proxy baptised?

The "voice" may be one of two versions..the first is the Primary voice where women have probably picked up talking in front of members as if they were children (thus in Primary), the second one I've heard referred to as the Conference voice as there is a certain style that is present in many GAs that has spread to many others.

It is not something I usually notice. I tend to focus on the visual rather than the verbal in the tonal sense....and all lectures without visual aids have always put me to sleep unless the speaker is really dynamic or telling a story for some reason, to stay wake I have to take notes or play solitaire to keep my mind active....but it is practically impossible for me to fall asleep if reading anything or watching a story...it must trigger a different part of the brain for me, one that stimulates the rest of it.

I don't think I do it myself as I've always talked to children in the same way I talk to adults...just with less vocabulary. It was annoying to me growing up from my Grandmas (my parents never talked that way) so I made a vow not to do it and it is only when I am tickling babies and dogs that I might forget usually.

I certainly would not wish to discourage or embarrass anyone.

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 The "voice" may be one of two versions..the first is the Primary voice where women have picked up talking in front of members as if they were children (thus in Primary), the second one I've heard referred to as the Conference voice as there is a certain smooth rhythmic style that is present in many GAs that has spread to many others. I interpret it as thinking sacred things need to be spoken of in reverent tones...which gets translated to being low key and uptight at the same time. :). It is similar to reading poetry in all the same sing song up and down rhythm rather than using the punctuation as a guide and changing speed and emphasis depending on what is to be conveyed.
 

 

I chuckle about the "Primary voice" of women when speaking, particularly at conference... I wish they wouldn't... but I put that aside and concentrate on the message.

And, I understand what you are saying about the "Conference voice"... but let me tell you my experience.  When I was first starting to reactivate after just over 30 years of being inactive, I hungered for a spiritual connection.  I was tuning in to the some of the televangelists on TV and I'd hear their speakers loudly and with great gusto proclaiming their message, people singing and shouting, etc etc... (Don't get me wrong... these are good, faithful people)  And I got caught up in the emotion... And though I wanted to hear, I found the style almost "bruised" me... Then came Gen Conference.  The contrast was stark... the quiet, beautiful messages of the gospel as spoken flowed into me and it was like fresh air...  no shouting, no pounding exhortations...   and I felt a peace and comfort to my Spirit that filled me till I wept... after that when I tuned in to the TV programs it was unpleasantly jarring... I still listen occasionally to a couple of favorites... Charles Stanley is one... Jack Van Impe is another... but guess what, they use pretty much a conference voice.. :)

 

So when I hear members talk or joke about "conference voices" or even the "primary voice" I just think of the contrast... and the message, and I'm thankful...

 

GG

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 The "voice" may be one of two versions..the first is the Primary voice where women have picked up talking in front of members as if they were children (thus in Primary), the second one I've heard referred to as the Conference voice as there is a certain smooth rhythmic style that is present in many GAs that has spread to many others. I interpret it as thinking sacred things need to be spoken of in reverent tones...which gets translated to being low key and uptight at the same time. :). It is similar to reading poetry in all the same sing song up and down rhythm rather than using the punctuation as a guide and changing speed and emphasis depending on what is to be conveyed.

 

 

 

I chuckle about the "Primary voice" of women when speaking, particularly at conference... I wish they wouldn't... but I put that aside and concentrate on the message.

And, I understand what you are saying about the "Conference voice"... but let me tell you my experience.  When I was first starting to reactivate after just over 30 years of being inactive, I hungered for a spiritual connection.  I was tuning in to the some of the televangelists on TV and I'd hear their speakers loudly and with great gusto proclaiming their message, people singing and shouting, etc etc... (Don't get me wrong... these are good, faithful people)  And I got caught up in the emotion... And though I wanted to hear, I found the style almost "bruised" me... Then came Gen Conference.  The contrast was stark... the quiet, beautiful messages of the gospel as spoken flowed into me and it was like fresh air...  no shouting, no pounding exhortations...   and I felt a peace and comfort to my Spirit that filled me till I wept... after that when I tuned in to the TV programs it was unpleasantly jarring... I still listen occasionally to a couple of favorites... Charles Stanley is one... Jack Van Impe is another... but guess what, they use pretty much a conference voice.. :)

 

So when I hear members talk or joke about "conference voices" or even the "primary voice" I just think of the contrast... and the message, and I'm thankful...

 

GG

This "voice" you speak of. I think there are really savvy voice coaches who train people. I do not know if you saw the movie, "Independence Day", remember when the president was giving his speech right before they attacked the Aliens? Well, I heard OBama use the exact same voice in his campaign. (Please, this is NOT going to get political) I used a voice coach when I was having trouble speaking because I was so ill from stress that I stopped breathing when I talked. That problem is easy to cure but I still have to practice.

 

So, if you think about it, Mormons are "trained" to do public speaking, organization, administration and oh so many other things that Joe presbyterian will not be trained to do. I do not know the percentages but I think that a higher percentage of Mormons get at least some college more than others. And, there is substantial cultural support for both men and women to go to college. I think that a faithful, covenant obeying Mormon really gets a foot up in life. The Missionary service is not just service, but training to work under pressure, and in fear. Sucessful Missionaries are trained to persevere in their mission and all those things carry forward into life.

 

I'm sorry, but I seem to be derailing my own thread. I was feeling really low this afternoon, owing to illness, and as I think about and write about all these things I realize that I love the church in spite of the fact that there are so many things that others do that I will not. I've been asking myself why I keep coming. Why don't I just go inactive? Do I even have a purpose here?

 

Well, I think I am getting an answer. I often visit other people, not because it is my calling but I just like doing it and it seems easy to find people to go on little adventures with me. Tonight we went out to try to see the Aurora Boreallis. A week ago, a friend and I went out to take pictures of Mt Hood from the West side, along Lolo Pass Road. Our little trips are not that important but repeatedly I hear from people how lonely they are. They express their gratefulness at my asking them to come with me. Not too long ago I was riding my bike and stopped to look at the map, when I heard a voice, "Sister, please don't ride on? Please stop? At first I could not understand where the voice was coming from until I got off my bike and locked it up. The voice came from a Sister who has 6 children all below age 10. When I walked into her house she seemed really harried, and the house was a mess. We started to talk as she expressed her thankfulness, and I could see that she needed more than just conversation, she needed another Sister to do her dishes.

 

Are those things my purpose? Am I a Mormon because Heavenly Father wants me to ease the way for other Sisters?  I've been feeling awful because I don't have a Temple Recommend. Now it occurs to me that it does not take a Temple Recommend to do what I have been doing. Perhaps I am doing exactly what Heavenly Father wants me to do.

Edited by EllenMaksoud
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FWIW, I've been a member pretty much all my life and I don't recognize a "conference voice", but I do recognize a molly mormon one (and that is probably what people mean).   I'm not sure why we have so many members (one would be too many) who wish to criticize and tear down others for serving faithfully the way they know to do.   I do know that some members see it as taking them down a peg or too (as though that is anyone's job). 

 

About five years ago, one of the apostles said in a World Wide Leadership (this is paraphrased), at church we are going to teach you the ideal.  If you are one for whom that is not what God would have you do, then you are free to determine that individually.   Teaching the temple is for the majority who do not have any problem getting a recommend if they choose to be worthy.   

 

I get why you might feel otherwise, but if I were in your place, I would absolutely know that I would not be denied any blessing in my situation, that I was good with God without having going to the Temple now, so long as I continued to live worthy to do so.   (Did you know that not so far in the past, women were not allowed to go to the temple for their own endowments if their non-member or less active dh refused permission?   Single women also never went to the temple --- I don't know that they were forbidden, but it was kinda discouraged unless they went on a mission, until they got married.)

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FWIW, I've been a member pretty much all my life and I don't recognize a "conference voice", but I do recognize a molly mormon one (and that is probably what people mean).   I'm not sure why we have so many members (one would be too many) who wish to criticize and tear down others for serving faithfully the way they know to do.   I do know that some members see it as taking them down a peg or too (as though that is anyone's job). 

 

About five years ago, one of the apostles said in a World Wide Leadership (this is paraphrased), at church we are going to teach you the ideal.  If you are one for whom that is not what God would have you do, then you are free to determine that individually.   Teaching the temple is for the majority who do not have any problem getting a recommend if they choose to be worthy.   

 

I get why you might feel otherwise, but if I were in your place, I would absolutely know that I would not be denied any blessing in my situation, that I was good with God without having going to the Temple now, so long as I continued to live worthy to do so.   (Did you know that not so far in the past, women were not allowed to go to the temple for their own endowments if their non-member or less active dh refused permission?   Single women also never went to the temple --- I don't know that they were forbidden, but it was kinda discouraged unless they went on a mission, until they got married.)

Please, I had not intention to in any ridicule anyone and if I came across that way, I am sorry. It was not my intention.

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Please, I had not intention to in any ridicule anyone and if I came across that way, I am sorry. It was not my intention.

 Now I'm the one who is sorry.  I wasn't suggesting that you were ridiculing anyone.  I apologize to you.

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 Now I'm the one who is sorry.  I wasn't suggesting that you were ridiculing anyone.  I apologize to you.

No need. I have been very ill to the point that being on street is not suitable for me. It would be good to go to a place where they locked me in right now. These Antibiotics make me really ill, so ill that it is hard to get out. I asked for PICC line and they would not. Today and yesterday, listening to conference I am feeling somewhat better.

 

So, if you feel I am getting too cranky, please say so.  :)  Only 2 1/2 weeks to go.  :)

 

Going out to watch "Gravity" was radical distraction and it helped.

Edited by EllenMaksoud
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Original topic response-- someone offends them, to appease their nonmember spouse, failure to relate to other members who may have wildly different political and social views, and boredom.

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I joined the Church in Germany, very small military branch, ordained a Priest the day after I was baptized with my wife. Called to be Sunday School President a week later, the Army would often call men away on duty which led me to teach soooooo much. (It was a great proving ground ) After less than a year ordained an Elder called to serve in Branch Presidency, 3 1/2 years later return home to Georgia, mind you then the Church was 1/3 the size it is today, so it began again...I was the East Coast distributor of activity, great results in family youngest home from a mission, Church becoming a force in the South, now I am becoming so isolated from the world I knew. Although in my new Ward, which a short move from where we were, so many I thought as Children with families and leading, gives me great joy. In my former Stake most of High Counsel are former young people I taught and served in Bishopric while they were returning from Missions. I think my calling now is just, Husband, Dad and Pa Pa.

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This "voice" you speak of. I think there are really savvy voice coaches who train people. I do not know if you saw the movie, "Independence Day", remember when the president was giving his speech right before they attacked the Aliens? Well, I heard OBama use the exact same voice in his campaign. (Please, this is NOT going to get political) I used a voice coach when I was having trouble speaking because I was so ill from stress that I stopped breathing when I talked. That problem is easy to cure but I still have to practice.

 

So, if you think about it, Mormons are "trained" to do public speaking, organization, administration and oh so many other things that Joe presbyterian will not be trained to do. I do not know the percentages but I think that a higher percentage of Mormons get at least some college more than others. And, there is substantial cultural support for both men and women to go to college. I think that a faithful, covenant obeying Mormon really gets a foot up in life. The Missionary service is not just service, but training to work under pressure, and in fear. Sucessful Missionaries are trained to persevere in their mission and all those things carry forward into life.

 

I'm sorry, but I seem to be derailing my own thread. I was feeling really low this afternoon, owing to illness, and as I think about and write about all these things I realize that I love the church in spite of the fact that there are so many things that others do that I will not. I've been asking myself why I keep coming. Why don't I just go inactive? Do I even have a purpose here?

 

Well, I think I am getting an answer. I often visit other people, not because it is my calling but I just like doing it and it seems easy to find people to go on little adventures with me. Tonight we went out to try to see the Aurora Boreallis. A week ago, a friend and I went out to take pictures of Mt Hood from the West side, along Lolo Pass Road. Our little trips are not that important but repeatedly I hear from people how lonely they are. They express their gratefulness at my asking them to come with me. Not too long ago I was riding my bike and stopped to look at the map, when I heard a voice, "Sister, please don't ride on? Please stop? At first I could not understand where the voice was coming from until I got off my bike and locked it up. The voice came from a Sister who has 6 children all below age 10. When I walked into her house she seemed really harried, and the house was a mess. We started to talk as she expressed her thankfulness, and I could see that she needed more than just conversation, she needed another Sister to do her dishes.

 

Are those things my purpose? Am I a Mormon because Heavenly Father wants me to ease the way for other Sisters?  I've been feeling awful because I don't have a Temple Recommend. Now it occurs to me that it does not take a Temple Recommend to do what I have been doing. Perhaps I am doing exactly what Heavenly Father wants me to do.

 

What a beautiful example of being the Lord's Hands!  Yes!  I believe you are on the Lord's errand in your loving, kind efforts.  I hope you feel better soon so you can keep lifting hearts around you.  You've lifted mine tonight as well.    :angel:

 

P.S.  Can anyone tell me how to edit a post?  Like a post?  Attach a video to a post?  I'm new and still figuring out the ropes.  Thanks!   :)

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What a beautiful example of being the Lord's Hands!  Yes!  I believe you are on the Lord's errand in your loving, kind efforts.  I hope you feel better soon so you can keep lifting hearts around you.  You've lifted mine tonight as well.    :angel:

 

P.S.  Can anyone tell me how to edit a post?  Like a post?  Attach a video to a post?  I'm new and still figuring out the ropes.  Thanks!   :)

As to editing posts, and starting new ones, you can't, I think. When you have responded to a goodly number of them, then you can, I think about 125 of them, I think.

 

God Bless you and thank you for the complement. :)

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As to editing posts, and starting new ones, you can't, I think. When you have responded to a goodly number of them, then you can, I think about 125 of them, I think.

 

God Bless you and thank you for the complement. :)

 

I see.  Thank you.  I really enjoyed your rebuttals to comments about being programmed, or certain voices etc.   :D

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I don't believe that inactivity can be confined to merely being offended or a rationalised proclivity to sin. That is just silly ignorance. For many inactive LDS persons that I know of it is mostly due to inability to identify with God, with religious community, speculated advancement of theological ideas, spiritual abuse, ecclesiastical abuse, historical misinformation, sciences (if that's your flavor), etc. Inactivity is hardly, if ever, due to simple reasons. I remember hearing a legendary narcissistic story in which a member of the LDS church was in a room with other former LDS and non-LDS. The member asked the question, "What commandment couldn't you live?" Such a response to a group of people such as this demonstrates a sore ignorance and obvious lack of spiritual inspiration. I don't know if the worthless story is actual history or if it is just another one of the more pathetic tall tales intended to emphasise the righteousness of the elect and the downfall of the once elect. Still worthless nonetheless.

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I don't believe that inactivity can be confined to merely being offended or a rationalised proclivity to sin. That is just silly ignorance. For many inactive LDS persons that I know of it is mostly due to inability to identify with God, with religious community, speculated advancement of theological ideas, spiritual abuse, ecclesiastical abuse, historical misinformation, sciences (if that's your flavor), etc. Inactivity is hardly, if ever, due to simple reasons. I remember hearing a legendary narcissistic story in which a member of the LDS church was in a room with other former LDS and non-LDS. The member asked the question, "What commandment couldn't you live?" Such a response to a group of people such as this demonstrates a sore ignorance and obvious lack of spiritual inspiration. I don't know if the worthless story is actual history or if it is just another one of the more pathetic tall tales intended to emphasise the righteousness of the elect and the downfall of the once elect. Still worthless nonetheless.

 

Well there is some truth to the fact that people are quick to assign inactivity to unrighteous behavior, course there is also some truth to the idea that a lot of inactivity is due to feelings of guilt due to unrighteous behavior.  On the other hand other than sinning, I still say it tends to be

 

Original topic response-- someone offends them, to appease their nonmember spouse, failure to relate to other members who may have wildly different political and social views, and boredom.

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People become inactive because they have not, or believe they have not, experienced miracles in their lives that can be traced to the LDS experience. Hence the new youth curriculum, for example, emphasizes getting the youth to have a spiritual experience.

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People become inactive because they have not, or believe they have not, experienced miracles in their lives that can be traced to the LDS experience. Hence the new youth curriculum, for example, emphasizes getting the youth to have a spiritual experience.

That simple eh?

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If it was, we wouldn't have so many ex-Mormon Athiests!

 

Agreed. The "I'm an Ex-Mormon" videos that were shortlived are still the relevant stories and experiences of people once of faith. It is not simple enough to label persons as disillusioned, swayed by "the devil", couldn't live a commandment, etc. Those are examples of bigoted opinion with no regard for the sacred story each of us carry in our minds and hearts.

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Well it is also important that we have a faith definitive enough to actually be an ex of....how many ex-Protestants do you know?

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People become inactive because they have not, or believe they have not, experienced miracles in their lives that can be traced to the LDS experience. Hence the new youth curriculum, for example, emphasizes getting the youth to have a spiritual experience.

That simple eh?

 

Yep.  I think it all boils down to that.

 

The very first challenge issued by the Church is to ask God and an answer, if there is one, is going to be a spiritual experience by definition.  If we don't get one, or don't believe we got one, or we got one and we forget it or the memory becomes choked by the cares of the world etc., then we stop believing, go inactive, leave, etc.

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