Why People Become Inactive?

[Stone holm]

Yep.  I think it all boils down to that.

 

The very first challenge issued by the Church is to ask God and an answer, if there is one, is going to be a spiritual experience by definition.  If we don't get one, or don't believe we got one, or we got one and we forget it or the memory becomes choked by the cares of the world etc., then we stop believing, go inactive, leave, etc.

This reminds me of the whole Puritan notion of documenting an experience before being granted full membership. I suspect there are a fair number of strong members who have never had such an experience.

[EllenMaksoud]

There seems to be a propensity among people in belief systems to push against any rules constraining their behavior. I am not ruling myself out here. 

 

For me, Mormonism has been a starkly different experience than ever before.  There are a half dozen healings in my life since becoming Mormon, some of them from very long standing issues, so these days I just have not had the experience of wanting to "push the limits" out of gratitude and fear, not that I am perfect. How long this suspension of temptation will continue, I have no idea.  Perhaps the reason for this vividness of faith is that I experienced the depths of failure, and know what it is to be miraculously plucked from the pit of despair. Anyone who knows me would say that I am a creature of mischief and hijinks now, and at times I just feel like Heavenly Father has put a really close watch on me, not that others do not experience the same thing. It is just very new to me.

 

So, I have thought of just giving up and leaving the church. I suppose this could be because I still feel the condemnation for my past at times, in moments of remorse.

 

One of the reasons that Islam was such a fit for me at times is there is nothing that can surpass the humility and contriteness of being on ones hands and knees with the forehead on the floor, asking for the forgiveness of God, 5 times a day. I still remain very connected with that sentiment even today as a Mormon.

[Tacenda]

There seems to be a propensity among people in belief systems to push against any rules constraining their behavior. I am not ruling myself out here.

For me, Mormonism has been a starkly different experience than ever before. There are a half dozen healings in my life since becoming Mormon, some of them from very long standing issues, so these days I just have not had the experience of wanting to "push the limits" out of gratitude and fear, not that I am perfect. How long this suspension of temptation will continue, I have no idea. Perhaps the reason for this vividness of faith is that I experienced the depths of failure, and know what it is to be miraculously plucked from the pit of despair. Anyone who knows me would say that I am a creature of mischief and hijinks now, and at times I just feel like Heavenly Father has put a really close watch on me, not that others do not experience the same thing. It is just very new to me.

So, I have thought of just giving up and leaving the church. I suppose this could be because I still feel the condemnation for my past at times, in moments of remorse.

One of the reasons that Islam was such a fit for me at times is there is nothing that can surpass the humility and contriteness of being on ones hands and knees with the forehead on the floor, asking for the forgiveness of God, 5 times a day. I still remain very connected with that sentiment even today as a Mormon.

This will get me in trouble, but only speaking of myself here. I feel like we're taught to elevate ourselves all the time, but don't feel we elevate God enough. I don't feel enough God/Jesus worship is being done. But we look at it differently I guess. I honestly believe though, that most of the commandments given are to make us realize how much we need Him and the Grace offered. No one can follow them as laid out, perfectly. It's not by our own doing. ETA: After thinking a bit, it really is me that has a problem not worshiping well enough, I now realize that many LDS worship and elevate their God just great, it's me with the problem. Edited October 12, 2013 by Tacenda

[EllenMaksoud]

This will get me in trouble, but only speaking of myself here. I feel like we're taught to elevate ourselves all the time, but don't feel we elevate God enough. I don't feel enough God/Jesus worship is being done. But we look at it differently I guess. I honestly believe though, that most of the commandments given are to make us realize how much we need Him and the Grace offered. No one can follow them as laid out, perfectly. It's not by our own doing.

We perhaps look at things differently, perhaps owing to  the fact that our backgrounds are so very different. And looking through my old Dialectal Behavior books I realize that it does not have to be either or, but can easily be this and this. Today, I found myself back at my Mosque worshiping, Sunday I will be at church. I have returned to a deeper expression of modesty, and once again feel like pleasing God is the most important.

Edited October 11, 2013 by EllenMaksoud

[Calm]

once again feel like pleasing God is the most important.

That is very consistent, imo, with the LDS faith.  Is there a reason that you feel that your practice of the LDS 'way of things' isn't pleasing to God in some fashion?

[EllenMaksoud]

That is very consistent, imo, with the LDS faith.  Is there a reason that you feel that your practice of the LDS 'way of things' isn't pleasing to God in some fashion?

The Mormons, and Heavenly Father have been uncommonly good to me, far beyond what I deserve. Heavenly Father has healed me of things in my life that were completely hopeless. I hope that some will not let their lurid imaginations run wild.

 

My reservations may be a number of things. Perhaps remorse of past events is still lingering in me. Perhaps gratefulness is so powerful as to nearly overcome me. There are lots of other things weighing on my mind also. These days I cling to Heavenly Father and his will like a limpet. My shame and my years as Muslim have made me really modest, and I have received comments about it that have made me uncomfortable. I saw one of the Sisters that was key in my conversion in a bikini with a t shirt. That is fine for her, but not for me.  I also want to make extra effort to worship God, and I have missed the Muslim way of praying. I was comforted today.

 

I have reservations on some theological issues, Joseph Smith and the BoM not being among them. I am questioning referring to Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and in my own time and way going back to look at the foundations of that belief, clear into the old testament. This will take time and I am retired and have lots of it.

 

My intention is to be both Mormon and Muslim. I have been told numerous times that I am a Bridge. Perhaps part of that Bridge is to get a dialogue open between Muslims and Mormons? And yes, I am trying to keep my delusions of grandeur in check.

Edited October 12, 2013 by EllenMaksoud

[rpn]

I don't think that one can be both muslim and LDS faithfully on a theological level.   But I do know that much of the muslim culture absolutely is consistent with what LDS members are taught about how to conduct themselves within the wider world.   That is why Muslim families feel safe sending their children to BYU.   (I once heard a muslim exchange student express shock that any Christian faith required as often of prayer as the muslim faith did, but most lds families I know have family prayer, morning and night, kneeling, personal prayer, morning and night, kneeling, and prayer on the food breakfast, lunch and dinner (not kneeling), or some variation of the above.)

[Stone holm]

I don't think that one can be both muslim and LDS faithfully on a theological level.   But I do know that much of the muslim culture absolutely is consistent with what LDS members are taught about how to conduct themselves within the wider world.   That is why Muslim families feel safe sending their children to BYU.   (I once heard a muslim exchange student express shock that any Christian faith required as often of prayer as the muslim faith did, but most lds families I know have family prayer, morning and night, kneeling, personal prayer, morning and night, kneeling, and prayer on the food breakfast, lunch and dinner (not kneeling), or some variation of the above.)

Yeah, I agree its tough enough just being Mormon and interesting sometimes

[Garden Girl]

most lds families I know have family prayer, morning and night, kneeling, personal prayer, morning and night, kneeling, and prayer on the food breakfast, lunch and dinner (not kneeling), or some variation of the above.)

Even when we have our ward activities we open and close every meeting/event with prayer... and if it involves food we bless the food.

And most LDS keep a prayer in their heart... I know I do throughout the day.  I don't stop at any given time or number of times to pray... it's just there in my heart several times throughout the day as I go about my activities.  I do some of my best praying when I'm driving along our rural highways on my way into Salem or Portland.  When I go up into town, I pass through an area where the Siletz River empties into the Bay and then into the ocean, bordered by a wildlife refuge area.  It is so beautiful it just naturally brings a prayer of gratitude that this is where I live, and for my life in general... I feel incredibly close to Heavenly Father and the Savior. and the Spirit fills me with happiness.

 

GG

[EllenMaksoud]

I don't think that one can be both muslim and LDS faithfully on a theological level.   But I do know that much of the muslim culture absolutely is consistent with what LDS members are taught about how to conduct themselves within the wider world.   That is why Muslim families feel safe sending their children to BYU.   (I once heard a muslim exchange student express shock that any Christian faith required as often of prayer as the muslim faith did, but most lds families I know have family prayer, morning and night, kneeling, personal prayer, morning and night, kneeling, and prayer on the food breakfast, lunch and dinner (not kneeling), or some variation of the above.)

I should write a list where theological Muslim culture differs from Mormon culture, and it would be surprisingly short. Mormons are decidedly less modest than Muslims and this pains me, however, since Islam originated in Saudi Arabia, both men and women had to be almost completely covered just to stay alive. They needed to prevent sun burn, and heat stroke. So simple practicality eventually became religious dogma. And after talking to many Muslims both male and female, I think it is likely that complete coverage for women is just as sexy to men as a girl in a bikini. American girls should take note. And, I think that any good Anthropologist would confirm this. But this is a superficial issue.

 

Forgiveness for sin, in Islam is handled differently because they are strict Monotheists, as I was and remain; just following the first commandment.  Theoretically in Islam, when someone sins, then repents and asks forgiveness of Allah SWT (GOD), it is done, completely done, no reservations, it is done. Of course I am not writing about capitol murder here.  Mormons talk about the Atonement as the forgiveness for sin, but most understand it in abstract terms.  I was originally taught the Mormon Atonement in Kirtland, as unconditional. In practicality, in Portland, Oregon and elsewhere, the Atonement is conditional for some of us so now it is the atonement, not the Atonement, practically speaking. The other day I was speaking with a missionary, and they said the same things about the atonement as the missionaries in Kirtland. However, outside missionary circles, the atonement is conditional, and does not include me and those like me. This is what is making it fall apart for me. And, during the General Conference, when they spoke of their Atonement and the Temple, it became very painful, to the point that I got up and left the room. The person I was watching it with, simply said, they aren't talking about you, ignore them. In the mean time, my trust is violated.

 

As to Jesus Christ, (Isa PBUH) I am open. In my own research, it seems to me the two opposing arguments regarding Jesus Christ could be about equally credible. And, with trying to interpret and translate Middle Eastern culture I think the curse of Babel prevents complete understanding.  Christians, the ones who knew Jesus Christ have lived in Northern Syria for over 2000 years, and have set in coffee shops with people of other beliefs and talked about this was he or was he not for that long. Oh, I well know what certain Sunni Muslims say about Isa PBUH, but I am Shia in a very reserved way, and remain open to the Christian ideas of Jesus the Christ. Last night, I sat in the Mosque and talked with several brothers and sisters about my ambivalence to the hard line Muslim rule in that area, and their response was "continue to search and pray and come back to pray with us".

 

To some Mormons I have talked to, talking to Muslims about Jesus the Christ  is the dangerous path and likely to get my head cut off. My heart tells me differently, and I will follow my heart and the direction of the Holy Spirit. Will I remain Mormon? I plan to if they will let me. But they will need to accept that I can be both, not either or.

[EllenMaksoud]

Even when we have our ward activities we open and close every meeting/event with prayer... and if it involves food we bless the food.

And most LDS keep a prayer in their heart... I know I do throughout the day.  I don't stop at any given time or number of times to pray... it's just there in my heart several times throughout the day as I go about my activities.  I do some of my best praying when I'm driving along our rural highways on my way into Salem or Portland.  When I go up into town, I pass through an area where the Siletz River empties into the Bay and then into the ocean, bordered by a wildlife refuge area.  It is so beautiful it just naturally brings a prayer of gratitude that this is where I live, and for my life in general... I feel incredibly close to Heavenly Father and the Savior. and the Spirit fills me with happiness.

 

GG

It's not about which religion is superior, but about Heavenly Father wants us to worship him in all our ways. Being both Muslim and Mormon is about my own personal journey.

[Calm]

However, outside missionary circles, the atonement is conditional, and does not include me and those like me. This is what is making it fall apart for me.

 

In what sense do you mean this?

 

The Atonement is universal in the sense that anyone who accepts it can receive it.

 

 

 

http://www.lds.org/topics/atonement-of-jesus-christ?lang=eng

As used in the scriptures, to atone is to suffer the penalty for sins, thereby removing the effects of sin from the repentant sinner and allowing him or her to be reconciled to God. Jesus Christ was the only one capable of carrying out the Atonement for all mankind. Because of His Atonement, all people will be resurrected, and those who obey His gospel will receive the gift of eternal life with God.

As descendants of Adam and Eve, all people inherit the effects of the Fall. In our fallen state, we are subject to opposition and temptation. When we give in to temptation, we are alienated from God, and if we continue in sin, we experience spiritual death, being separated from His presence. We are all subject to temporal death, which is the death of the physical body (see Alma 42:6-9; D&C 29:41-42).

The only way for us to be saved is for someone else to rescue us. We need someone who can satisfy the demands of justice—standing in our place to assume the burden of the Fall and to pay the price for our sins. Jesus Christ has always been the only one capable of making such a sacrifice.

From before the Creation of the earth, the Savior has been our only hope for “peace in this world, and eternal life in the world to come” (D&C 59:23).

Only He had the power to lay down His life and take it up again. From His mortal mother, Mary, He inherited the ability to die. From His immortal Father, He inherited the power to overcome death. He declared, “As the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself” (John 5:26).

Only He could redeem us from our sins. God the Father gave Him this power (see Helaman 5:11). The Savior was able to receive this power and carry out the Atonement because He kept Himself free from sin: “He suffered temptations but gave no heed unto them” (D&C 20:22). Having lived a perfect, sinless life, He was free from the demands of justice. Because He had the power of redemption and because He had no debt to justice, he could pay the debt for those who repent.

Jesus's atoning sacrifice took place in the Garden of Gethsemane and on the cross at Calvary. In Gethsemane He submitted to the will of the Father and began to take upon Himself the sins of all people. He has revealed some of what He experienced as He paid the price for our sins:

“I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;

“But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;

“Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—

“Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men” (D&C 19:16-19; see also Luke 22:44; Mosiah 3:7).

The Savior continued to suffer for our sins when He allowed Himself to be crucified—“lifted up upon the cross and slain for the sins of the world” (1 Nephi 11:33).

On the cross, He allowed Himself to die. His body was then laid in a tomb until He was resurrected and became “the firstfruits of them that slept” (1 Corinthians 15:20). Through His death and Resurrection, He overcame physical death for us all.

Jesus Christ redeems all people from the effects of the Fall. All people who have ever lived on the earth and who ever will live on the earth will be resurrected and brought back into the presence of God to be judged (see 2 Nephi 2:5-10; Helaman 14:15-17). Through the Savior's gift of mercy and redeeming grace, we will all receive the gift of immortality and live forever in glorified, resurrected bodies.

Although we are redeemed unconditionally from the universal effects of the Fall, we are accountable for our own sins. But we can be forgiven and cleansed from the stain of sin if we “apply the atoning blood of Christ” (Mosiah 4:2). We must exercise faith in Jesus Christ, repent, be baptized for the remission of sins, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2013 by calmoriah

[EllenMaksoud]

 

In what sense do you mean this?

 

The Atonement is universal in the sense that anyone who accepts it can receive it.

 

 

 

http://www.lds.org/topics/atonement-of-jesus-christ?lang=eng

 

 

 

I almost don't have the heart to say this because it just underlines the pain.

 

There is a disconnect between what those words say and how it is practically applied.   Yes, I did things, altered God's creation, repented, felt contrition, pledged to live the rest of my life. There is no rewind in life for some of us. So they say um well it can be taken care of in the Celestial Kingdom. It sounds a bit trite to me, and makes the Mormon view on the atonement not entirely trustworthy any longer. This means it is necessary to work harder to please God. One belief is no longer enough, so two are better for those of us who aren't quite suitable. If the atonement was trustworthy, then it would apply the same way to all of us.

 

Sure there are others like me and they try to take the church by storm, being forceful, and obnoxious, not taking responsibility for their sin, not repentant, not contrite, just wanting the church to change their beliefs so that sin can be admissible. I am not like that, never was, never will be. The idea that the Mormons wanted me took me completely by surprise,  "WHAT, you want me? Are you nuts, my sin is too deep to be forgiven". But they insisted that it could be and I could become entirely suitable. It took almost a year for them to convince me that the atonement would apply to me, and then I was baptized and find out it does not actually apply.  The church's approach to me on this issue is sadistic

 

Do you think it any wonder that I would begin to use a backup plan?  And realistically, converts sometimes are not suitable. What defense is there to someone deciding that I am not suitable? You can not imagine how this drags me back into the past?

 

I will say that the last 2 1/2 years have been the happiest in my life, and I will always be thankful for this time.

[Laurent]

In our ward, we have more than 300 members. In fact, we just split from another ward December last year. Less than 180 of those 300 members are active. For me, people become inactive because they either lost their testimony or they have too many problems in life that they won't give a single day of the week for the Lord. (Just saying.)

[EllenMaksoud]

In our ward, we have more than 300 members. In fact, we just split from another ward December last year. Less than 180 of those 300 members are active. For me, people become inactive because they either lost their testimony or they have too many problems in life that they won't give a single day of the week for the Lord. (Just saying.)

I have given, still give and will continue to give my life to God in every way that I can, including attending church, giving money to the poor, volunteering where I can help. If we are truly God's then we give our life, body, soul, mind and with all our substance, in every action, word and deed.

[ERayR]

People become inactive in the LDS Church for the same reasons they become inactive in any denomination.  There isn't just one reason people become inactive.  They become inactive for any number of reasons.  Some become inactive because they don't want to commit to the extent that is asked of them.  Some because of interpersonal relations (hurt feelings).  Some over doctrinal issues.  Some even for issues of sin.  I know that is hard to believe but it is sometimes true.

 

There is nothing inherently better or worse about inactive Mormons than there is about inactive others.   However, quite often there is much more noise and notice of it by critics and anti-Mormons.

[EllenMaksoud]

People become inactive in the LDS Church for the same reasons they become inactive in any denomination.  There isn't just one reason people become inactive.  They become inactive for any number of reasons.  Some become inactive because they don't want to commit to the extent that is asked of them.  Some because of interpersonal relations (hurt feelings).  Some over doctrinal issues.  Some even for issues of sin.  I know that is hard to believe but it is sometimes true.

 

There is nothing inherently better or worse about inactive Mormons than there is about inactive others.   However, quite often there is much more noise and notice of it by critics and anti-Mormons.

Gee, I hope this wasn't one of those "don't let the door hit you ...." posts.  I tried several other denominations and say that the Mormons stand up better,  than any other denomination. It is however a much more exclusive club than some would think.  Were I to leave, and I'm not planning to, being vocal and anti just is not my way of doing things.  Deciding if returning to Islam is simply a childish, immature way of making "them" pay has occupied some of my time and the answer is no.

 

No one knows God or Allah SWT as well as they think they do, and for me returning to certain Muslim practices is simply because I like them.

[Stone holm]

People become inactive in the LDS Church for the same reasons they become inactive in any denomination.  There isn't just one reason people become inactive.  They become inactive for any number of reasons.  Some become inactive because they don't want to commit to the extent that is asked of them.  Some because of interpersonal relations (hurt feelings).  Some over doctrinal issues.  Some even for issues of sin.  I know that is hard to believe but it is sometimes true.

 

There is nothing inherently better or worse about inactive Mormons than there is about inactive others.   However, quite often there is much more noise and notice of it by critics and anti-Mormons.

But because the Church is what it is, some who leave it will not leave it alone. Institutions which don't matter rarely attract the venom of former members.

[EllenMaksoud]

But because the Church is what it is, some who leave it will not leave it alone. Institutions which don't matter rarely attract the venom of former members.

I think I would rather die than lose association with Mormons.

[ERayR]

Gee, I hope this wasn't one of those "don't let the door hit you ...." posts.  I tried several other denominations and say that the Mormons stand up better,  than any other denomination. It is however a much more exclusive club than some would think.  Were I to leave, and I'm not planning to, being vocal and anti just is not my way of doing things.  Deciding if returning to Islam is simply a childish, immature way of making "them" pay has occupied some of my time and the answer is no.

 

No one knows God or Allah SWT as well as they think they do, and for me returning to certain Muslim practices is simply because I like them.

 

I didn't mean for it to sound in the least as a "don't let the door hit you ...." post.  What I was trying to point out is that Mormons do things for pretty much the same reason as other folks.

[Calm]

Gee, I hope this wasn't one of those "don't let the door hit you ...." posts.  I tried several other denominations and say that the Mormons stand up better,  than any other denomination. It is however a much more exclusive club than some would think.  Were I to leave, and I'm not planning to, being vocal and anti just is not my way of doing things.  Deciding if returning to Islam is simply a childish, immature way of making "them" pay has occupied some of my time and the answer is no.

 

No one knows God or Allah SWT as well as they think they do, and for me returning to certain Muslim practices is simply because I like them.

Have you forgotten the title to your thread.    I think ERayR was just responding to your question.

[EllenMaksoud]

Have you forgotten the title to your thread.    I think ERayR was just responding to your question.

Thank you. I stand corrected. My only lame excuse is that on Antibiotics, nearly everything I eat makes me sick.

[EllenMaksoud]

I didn't mean for it to sound in the least as a "don't let the door hit you ...." post.  What I was trying to point out is that Mormons do things for pretty much the same reason as other folks.

Sorry, I being crabby.

[Tacenda]

Sorry, I being crabby.

Nah, refreshingly honest.

[ERayR]

Nah, refreshingly honest.

 

Nah sounds like crabby to me.  That's alright I sometimes do that too.  Oftener than I like to admit.