The Effect Of Believing Evolution

[theplains]

I had some questions about something mentioned on pages 23-24 of "Mine Errand from

the Lord" by Boyd K. Packer.

"Belief in evolution promotes moral irresponsibility. A conviction that man did evolve from

animals fosters the mentality that man is not responsible for moral conduct".

Many people believe in evolution but I would not consider them as morally irresponsible.

Do you? And if yes, why?

"Promiscuity is a result of evolutionary belief".

How?

Thanks,

Jim

[bluebell]

It could be that BKP is equating a belief in evolution with a belief in atheism (in his mind at the time he wrote this, perhaps the two were inseparably connected)?

And if that was the case (which is just a theory), then it wouldn't be surprising for him to equate atheism with moral irresponsibility and promiscuity (not saying he's right in that equation, just that it would make sense given his point of view).

[cinepro]

Interesting. That book appears to be a compendum of President Packer's teachings, published in 2008, is it not?

Mine Errand From The Lord

Since the Church has no "official position" on evolution, I'm surprised that was included.

[Freedom]

Interesting. That book appears to be a compendum of President Packer's teachings, published in 2008, is it not?

Mine Errand From The Lord

Since the Church has no "official position" on evolution, I'm surprised that was included.

The church did not include anything. This is not an official church publication, just a commercial product to bring in revenue. Since there is no correlation between atheism and immorality (Utah has the highest rates of porn viewing in the U.S.) and since there is no relationship between a belief in where we come from and how we will treat our neighbor, we can take this quote for what it is. One mans uninformed opinion.

[Bikeemikey]

I had some questions about something mentioned on pages 23-24 of "Mine Errand from

the Lord" by Boyd K. Packer.

"Belief in evolution promotes moral irresponsibility. A conviction that man did evolve from

animals fosters the mentality that man is not responsible for moral conduct".

Many people believe in evolution but I would not consider them as morally irresponsible.

Do you? And if yes, why?

"Promiscuity is a result of evolutionary belief".

How?

Thanks,

Jim

More great BKP quotes about something he seemed to know little about.

We will all know at some point how the creation went down.

I idea that evolution = atheism is just down right silly.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Bikeemikey

[Tacenda]

The church did not include anything. This is not an official church publication, just a commercial product to bring in revenue. Since there is no correlation between atheism and immorality (Utah has the highest rates of porn viewing in the U.S.) and since there is no relationship between a belief in where we come from and how we will treat our neighbor, we can take this quote for what it is. One mans uninformed opinion.

Is that a recent statistic on the porn viewing being the highest in Utah or old info?

[Brian 2.0]

Is that a recent statistic on the porn viewing being the highest in Utah or old info?

Unless there is new stats available this mainly comes from this study done 4 years ago.

http://www.pcworld.c...nline_porn.html

This being the full study...

http://people.hbs.edu/bedelman/papers/redlightstates.pdf

Edited July 23, 2013 by Brian 2.0

[bear]

What was the latest official church statement on evolution? I remember reading it somewhere on the internet but cant find it now. - I am writing down some official statements about tithing/age of the earth/evolution etc to keep handy for whenever someone at church decides to question my personal beliefs.

Thanks

[Freedom]

What was the latest official church statement on evolution? I remember reading it somewhere on the internet but cant find it now. - I am writing down some official statements about tithing/age of the earth/evolution etc to keep handy for whenever someone at church decides to question my personal beliefs.

Thanks

A quick search of FAIR will show that the church has no policy on evolution and has always been neutral. There was quite a fight between Joseph Fielding Smith on one side who was anti evolution and pretty much everybody else on the other side who took no issue with it. Packard, it appears, does not read church history. For an educated man, he demonstrates profound ignorance and fights against the very church he is called to lead.

[bear]

Yep, i know they have no policy, but i seem to remember that they stated just that in an official declaration... maybe im wrong - its been known to happen:)

[Hamilton Porter]

The church did not include anything. This is not an official church publication, just a commercial product to bring in revenue. Since there is no correlation between atheism and immorality (Utah has the highest rates of porn viewing in the U.S.) and since there is no relationship between a belief in where we come from and how we will treat our neighbor, we can take this quote for what it is. One mans uninformed opinion.

Huh? One porn statistic to illustrate why atheists aren't immoral?

[Freedom]

Huh? One porn statistic to illustrate why atheists aren't immoral?

Do you have any evidence that atheists are immoral? Mine is a single example of why the argument is flawed, I invite you to produce a single example of why the argument is not flawed. I consider the middle east, a highly religious society, to be highly immoral. I also consider the southern states, steeped in the evangelical religion and obsessively opposed to evolution to also be highly immoral. I would sooner raise my children in Berlin than in Mobile.

[thesometimesaint]

Pure bull-pucky.

Recognizing that living organisms evolve as a fact is not more related to morality in humans than recognizing some animals eat their mates after sex. Sorry to tell BKP that that fact is not a recommendation for cannibalism in humans.

[Brian 2.0]

Yep, i know they have no policy, but i seem to remember that they stated just that in an official declaration... maybe im wrong - its been known to happen:)

This may be what you are referring to.

http://www.lds.org/ensign/2002/02/the-origin-of-man?lang=eng

[Hamilton Porter]

Do you have any evidence that atheists are immoral? Mine is a single example of why the argument is flawed, I invite you to produce a single example of why the argument is not flawed. I consider the middle east, a highly religious society, to be highly immoral. I also consider the southern states, steeped in the evangelical religion and obsessively opposed to evolution to also be highly immoral. I would sooner raise my children in Berlin than in Mobile.

There are a bajillion different variables. Atheists are awful at charitable giving but may be better at other indicators of morality.

[Hamilton Porter]

This may be what you are referring to.

http://www.lds.org/e...of-man?lang=eng

It's funny the more recent 1925 statement isn't on the Church's website. Apparently, the mullahs are in charge of church curriculum right now.

[Freedom]

There are a bajillion different variables. Atheists are awful at charitable giving but may be better at other indicators of morality.

In other words, there is no evidence to support the claims that atheists are less moral than those who reject evolution.

[CV75]

I had some questions about something mentioned on pages 23-24 of "Mine Errand from

the Lord" by Boyd K. Packer.

"Belief in evolution promotes moral irresponsibility. A conviction that man did evolve from

animals fosters the mentality that man is not responsible for moral conduct".

Many people believe in evolution but I would not consider them as morally irresponsible.

Do you? And if yes, why?

"Promiscuity is a result of evolutionary belief".

How?

Thanks,

Jim

I haven't read the book, and am taking your summary at face value:

I think that viewing man as a physical organism tends to take away from the idea that “man is spirit." (D&C 93:33). A conviction that man is but a physical, evolved organism leaves no room for the belief that man is a spirit with divine origins.

Likewise, I think that viewing a human body (and in relation to moral conduct, that body's human mental capacity) as the product of physical evolution tends to downplay the direct, divine origins of his agency, which is expressed as moral conduct. So a conviction that physicality and mentality haven’t a divine origin leaves no room for man to possess a divinely endowed sense of morality (including a knowledge of good and evil), and related responsibility.

I think it reasonable to assume that Elder Packer believes that “man is spirit” and that his agency and its attendant moral obligations were given him of God. Where a brand of evolution denies these two points, then yes, the “mentality that man is not responsible for moral conduct” would naturally follow, since a) there is no God to be responsible to and b) his conduct is but a biochemically-driven physical phenomenon; and promiscuity would follow that.

Of course we see many kinds of splicing between these ideas to allow various emphases between the evolution of the body but not of the spirit, or even the evolution of both, etc., but even in this melding with religious doctrine, the pull from the idea that man as a physical being segregates his body and spirit (whether to greater or lesser degree) and deemphasizes his true existence to be that of a soul (D&C 88:15). This is turn would challenge a belief in the absoluteness of his moral responsibility as discerned and judged by God.

[Ahab]

I had some questions about something mentioned on pages 23-24 of "Mine Errand from

the Lord" by Boyd K. Packer.

"Belief in evolution promotes moral irresponsibility. A conviction that man did evolve from

animals fosters the mentality that man is not responsible for moral conduct".

In other words, people who think mankind evolved from animals are more likely to think their immoral conduct is a leftover from their animal ancestry.

Many people believe in evolution but I would not consider them as morally irresponsible.

Do you? And if yes, why?

Yes, at least sometimes, liike when they act like animals instead of being morally responsible and acting like children of God.

"Promiscuity is a result of evolutionary belief".

How?

Like when a man says: "I'm just doing what comes naturally when I act on my desire to have sex with a woman."

Some people are so promiscuous you might think their ancestors were rabbits, but they don't have to act like animals, because in reality they are not one of any kind.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Ahab

[Freedom]

In other words, people who think mankind evolved from animals are more likely to think their immoral conduct is a leftover from their animal ancestry.

Do you have any evidence that people who believe in evolution (Dallin H Oaks, T Tom Perry) are more likely to think this way?

Yes, at least sometimes, liike when they act like animals instead of being morally responsible and acting like children of God.

Like when a man says: "I'm just doing what comes naturally when I act on my desire to have sex with a woman."

Some people are so promiscuous you might think their ancestors were rabbits, but they don't have to act like animals, because in reality they are not one of any kind.

There is no correlation between atheism and promiscuity. In fact, I suspect the complete opposite is true. The highest rates of unwed mothers is in the christian south, not in the atheist north.

[Ahab]

Do you have any evidence that people who believe in evolution (Dallin H Oaks, T Tom Perry) are more likely to think this way?

Yes, from my life experiences. It's all about where people think their "base" behaviors come from. Most people think divine beings should act like divine beings,, so the fact that some people behave more like animals instead of like God leads some people to think those behaviors come from what they think of as the animal within us.

There is no correlation between atheism and promiscuity. In fact, I suspect the complete opposite is true. The highest rates of unwed mothers is in the christian south, not in the atheist north.

This is about evolution, not atheism.

[Brian 2.0]

Yes, from my life experiences. It's all about where people think their "base" behaviors come from. Most people think divine beings should act like divine beings,, so the fact that some people behave more like animals instead of like God leads some people to think those behaviors come from what they think of as the animal within us.

Don't you believe that the "natural man" is an enemy to God? Don't you think your "base" behaviors can often lead to "sin"? And you try to rise above that base behavior.

Can't a believer in evolution also do the same thing. He realizes his "base" behaviors are animalistic, a need to reproduce his own species, but he also knows he is fortunate to have intelligence, and as such can rise above these animal instincts and behave in a way that benefits him and society as a whole.

Is there really much of a difference between the two?

Edited July 24, 2013 by Brian 2.0

[Whiskeypete]

Unless there is new stats available this mainly comes from this study done 4 years ago.

http://www.pcworld.c...nline_porn.html

This being the full study...

http://people.hbs.edu/bedelman/papers/redlightstates.pdf

One review of credit card zip codes of one company does not constitute a valid study of who watches the most porn.

[The Nehor]

One review of credit card zip codes of one company does not constitute a valid study of who watches the most porn.

It mostly just proves that Utahans are dumb and actually pay for porn despite all the free stuff out there. Demonstrates naivete about porn but nothing else.

[The Nehor]

In other words, there is no evidence to support the claims that atheists are less moral than those who reject evolution.

I think we need to look at how atheists who believe in Creationism act morally as a basis.