July Conference On Faith Crisis--Bushman And The Givens

[Calm]

From Tacenda:

"A Thoughtful Faith" posted this on FB this morning. I thought it interesting and realised something, recently I answered a rather vague poll asking people about their faith crisis. Could this be a poll done by Greg and Fiona Prince and Richard Bushman before this presentation? I think so, in fact at first I thought it was coming from the church. Has anyone come across this poll and what do you think? Also, I read elsewhere that someone who knows someone higher up in the church, said the church is very concerned about this subject and are going to do some inoculation before it gets out of control. Maybe these three that are providing this helpful conference were prompted by our church leaders. I really feel they care.

http://bycommonconse...a-faith-crisis/

c/p: During the first week of July, Richard Bushman and Terryl and Fiona Givens will be presenting an all-day conference for those in a faith crisis. This conference would not be helpful to ex-Mormons or to Mormons who are not struggling with aspects of their faith. If you would like to participate, please message me or let me know in comments. Space is limited. It will be held in Provo.

BTW: My last post until 10:15 am, if I need to respond to anyone please refer to this post.

Cal: Oops, since I posted this, she won't be able to respond here, you will have to look in the original thread (hide history). But only another half hour so not too long.

Edited June 10, 2013 by calmoriah

[canard78]

Thanks Cal/Tacenda.

[sheilauk]

I hope that there will be something distributed on line as cost of travel etc will no doubt mean it won't be very helpful to many of those who live outside of the USA and possibly those outside of Utah otherwise.

[canard78]

I hope that there will be something distributed on line as cost of travel etc will no doubt mean it won't be very helpful to many of those who live outside of the USA and possibly those outside of Utah otherwise.

There is a comment in the BCC blog from the promoter that it will be.

I'd thought the same. If your last two letters are anything to locate you on, did you go to the recent UK tour by the Givens's?

[sheilauk]

There is a comment in the BCC blog from the promoter that it will be.

I'd thought the same. If your last two letters are anything to locate you on, did you go to the recent UK tour by the Givens's?

I saw that it was to be recorded - hopefully that does mean that it will be put online!

I do live in the UK (near Nottingham) but I didn't go to the tour - I didn't know that there was one! Which is a shame, I'd have love to have gone to hear them. I just don't have my finger on the button as they say with these things!

[why me]

The Givens' were in the UK giving presentations around the country. I think that it is great that they are giving presentations to members. In the UK it was to the general membership. However, from what I could tell, they had limited impact on those who left the church or for those who became non-involved after reading lds history from critic sites. But I think that the members did benefit.

Edited June 10, 2013 by why me

[why me]

I saw that it was to be recorded - hopefully that does mean that it will be put online!

I do live in the UK (near Nottingham) but I didn't go to the tour - I didn't know that there was one! Which is a shame, I'd have love to have gone to hear them. I just don't have my finger on the button as they say with these things!

It was announced from ward pulpits. However, I am not sure if the members knew of its importance.

[sheilauk]

It was announced from ward pulpits. However, I am not sure if the members knew of its importance.

I'm not saying that it wasn't well advertised, I just don't remember hearing such an announcement myself, but I have to confess that I am often a few minutes late to church and miss the announcements! Serves me right! As I said, I'm just not very good at picking up on these sort of things. Course, if I was on time... Hmm, wonder if I know anyone who went? I'll ask around, if I remember - not very good at that either!

[canard78]

It was announced from ward pulpits. However, I am not sure if the members knew of its importance.

Are you British too? Or had you just heard it was being promoted?

[canard78]

The Givens' were in the UK giving presentations around the country. I think that it is great that they are giving presentations to members. In the UK it was to the general membership. However, from what I could tell, they had limited impact on those who left the church or for those who became non-involved after reading lds history from critic sites. But I think that the members did benefit.

I think it will take a lot more than a fireside or two to bring back those who have completely left. I do know of a few people who are somewhat 'in transition' who benefited from attending.

[Hamilton Porter]

That's a dream team. I'll have to pass it up lest someone actually experiencing a faith crisis won't be able to find a seat. Bushman and the Givenses are awesome sauce.

[why me]

Are you British too? Or had you just heard it was being promoted?

No. But I was visiting when the team were going around telling people about the history. I also have a connection over there.

[Mike Reed]

Terryl, Fiona, and Richard... all very cool, genuine, kind, and brilliant people. And Fiona is totally Radtastic, I tell ya.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I got to met him and his wife when he spoke to a small gathering of people who wanted to hear about the new book, "Rough Stone Rolling" (which is a very good book). Great writing, big topic to try and digest in such a short period of time (the audience that is).

Edited June 13, 2013 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[Calm]

big topic to try and digest in such a short period of time.

Truth!

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Truth!

When I think about what Joseph said (was said of him) that "his name would be had for good and evil among all the Nation's of the earth"(paraphrase) at such a young age...then think of all that is written of him in books and the number of Internet sites devoted to his continued destruction, I am in awe that many say, no prophecy he ever made came to pass...Wow, just wow!

[cinepro]

Wow. I'll actually be in Utah the first week of July. I might try to go to this.

[Rivers]

The Givenses and Bushman are among my favorite people right now. The God Who Weeps and RSR are fantastic books.

Will this event be recorded or videoed?

Edited June 15, 2013 by Rivers

[canard78]

Th

The Givenses and Bushman are among my favorite people right now. The God Who Weeps and RSR are fantastic books.

Will this event be recorded or videoed?

The link says that yes it will.

[DBMormon]

Cinepro, you need to reserve a seat

Also the UK Fireside the Givens gave in the UK is on my site. It is similar subject matter and titled "The crucible of doubt"

http://mormondiscussion.podbean.com

Edited June 18, 2013 by DBMormon

[canard78]

Cinepro, you need to reserve a seat

Also the UK Fireside the Givens gave in the UK is on my site. It is similar subject matter and titled "The crucible of doubt"

http://mormondiscussion.podbean.com

Thanks, am downloading it now. Have heard lots about it.

[DBMormon]

yw

[Scott Lloyd]

The Givens' were in the UK giving presentations around the country. I think that it is great that they are giving presentations to members. In the UK it was to the general membership. However, from what I could tell, they had limited impact on those who left the church or for those who became non-involved after reading lds history from critic sites.

I find that curious. It is as though, having fallen away, they become as dogmatic and intransigent as antagonists consider faithful Church members to be.

Didn't they reject their former faith supposedly because they became more open-minded? What happened? Did their minds slam shut again after they left the fold?

[DBMormon]

I find that curious. It is as though, having fallen away, they become as dogmatic and intransigent as antagonists consider faithful Church members to be.

Didn't they reject their former faith supposedly because they became more open-minded? What happened? Did their minds slam shut again after they left the fold?

Not sure what your saying Scott? are you implying the Givens have left and if you replying to the UK members who left could you explain better what your saying?

[Scott Lloyd]

Not sure what your saying Scott? are you implying the Givens have left ....

Huh? What in the world could have given you that idea? Never mind. Suffice it to say you could not possibly have gotten farther from my intended meaning.

and if you replying to the UK members who left could you explain better what your saying?

It might help you to re-read the post to which I was replying.

why me said that the efforts of Brother and Sister Givens had "limited impact" on those in the UK who had left the Church or who became "non-involved" after reading Church history from critics' websites.

Because I know how eloquent Terryl Givens is (I assume his wife is as well) I can only conclude that Givens's failure to move their hearers who have fallen away from the Church is due largely to close-mindedness on the part of those hearers.

I'm saying this is ironic, because an apostate would likely say his departure from the Church resulted from his becoming more open-minded about what the Church professes. (I question whether they really are all that open-minded, and the above would tend to bear out my doubts.)

Edited to add:

Recognizing that eloquence is, to some degree, in the eye of the beholder, I give this link to Professor Givens's "Letter to a Doubter" on the website of Interpreter: a Journal of Mormon Scripture. Let the reader judge for himself the eloquence of Professor Givens.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Scott Lloyd