Pre-Adamites?

[cdowis]

cinepro,

Are you trying to be annoying.

As I have said, this is a working hypothesis which is probably not theologically correct. It is a thought experiment, using the interpretation of "no death before the fall" applying only to the sixth day of creation, not the previous five days of the creation process. The sixth day is very different from the previous five days -- the creation of Adam on the earth in a paradisical state.

Of course, I may be wrong about the theology, but there it is.

You know, we have had this discussion before.

Edited June 18, 2013 by cdowis

[thesometimesaint]

I don't mean literally, I mean maybe developmentally. I mean it seems like if you measure it in terms of human history -- you have these long, long periods where there is very little change in society and then it starts building to a technological crescendo or perhaps disaster. Since Heavenly Father lives on another planet, maybe He views time in a very different fashion when looking at His creations -- think of when you were young (well maybe you are still young), but life seems to go slow while you were growing up, but as you grow older it goes by faster and faster.

For most of history it has been two steps forwards and one step back.

Time is relative.

I was so much much older then. I'm younger than that now.

[Stone holm]

For most of history it has been two steps forwards and one step back.

Time is relative.

I was so much much older then. I'm younger than that now.

[media=]

Relative to what?

[thesometimesaint]

I'll be 62 years old in a few more weeks, and have a 20 year old granddaughter. Yikes, time does fly when you're having so much fun.

Time is always relative to the observer.

[Stone holm]

I'll be 62 years old in a few more weeks, and have a 20 year old granddaughter. Yikes, time does fly when you're having so much fun.

Time is always relative to the observer.

As is light.

[Nofear]

Time is always relative to the observer.

While time is indeed relative, a more accurate way to say what you intended is that "memory (of time passage) is relative".

[Stone holm]

While time is indeed relative, a more accurate way to say what you intended is that "memory (of time passage) is relative".

So we are talking about God's memory here which probably sees time at the speed of light or something given His age.

[thesometimesaint]

So we are talking about God's memory here which probably sees time at the speed of light or something given His age.

I don't know. The speed of light seems kinda slow for God.

[Nofear]

So we are talking about God's memory here which probably sees time at the speed of light or something given His age.

Much more pedantic. A 7 year sees/remembers a summer vacation as being pretty lengthy because it is a substantial portion of his total memory. A 77 year old sees a summer vacation as being a mere blink because it is a not-so-substantial portion of his total memory. They both experience the same amount of time but their memories of the "lengths" of them are quite different.

[Stone holm]

I don't know. The speed of light seems kinda slow for God.

Hm, time faster than the speed of light?

[cinepro]

It has been suggested that Elder Nelson travels the same road as BRM and Joseph Fielding Smith on these issues. Suspending all physical death on the entire planet presents some truly awesome confrontations with science which are completely unnecessary.

Elder Nelson has an odd view of science, especially when it comes to the creation of the Earth and evolution, in light of his being a medical doctor and all...

Yet some people erroneously think that these marvelous physical attributes happened by chance or resulted from a big bang somewhere. Ask yourself, “Could an explosion in a printing shop produce a dictionary?” The likelihood is most remote. But if so, it could never heal its own torn pages or reproduce its own newer editions!

- Russell M. Nelson "Thanks Be to God"

The creation of a paradisiacal planet came from God. Mortality and death came into the world through the Fall of Adam....

Eventually, "the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory." (A of F 1:10.) At the Second Coming of the Lord, the earth will be changed once again. It will be returned to its paradisiacal state and be made new.

- Russell M. Nelson "The Creation"

But I agree that if we ignore what Elder Nelson and other Apostles have taught on the subject in General Conference and other official Church publications, then there is no contradiction between official LDS teachings and the theory of evolution.

Edited June 18, 2013 by cinepro

[Stone holm]

Elder Nelson has an odd view of science, especially when it comes to the creation of the Earth and evolution, in light of his being a medical doctor and all...

Agreed. Not that I am a particular fan of the big bang theory which to me doesn't really answer very many "whys" or "hows". But one would think that he could have avoided resorting to this type of over simplification if he wanted to attack evolutionary theory.

[Questing Beast]

Hm, time faster than the speed of light?

Slooooow. Whole galaxies vanish from our purview by passing beyond the speed of light, so the theory says anyway. "Thinking is the best way to travel", and it is instantaneous. That's how "God" does it. But also, "God", being outside of the space-time that "God" instituted with creation, is First and Last the Cause of everything and transcends any perception of space-time conditions....

[Stone holm]

Slooooow. Whole galaxies vanish from our purview by passing beyond the speed of light, so the theory says anyway. "Thinking is the best way to travel", and it is instantaneous. That's how "God" does it. But also, "God", being outside of the space-time that "God" instituted with creation, is First and Last the Cause of everything and transcends any perception of space-time conditions....

You believe thinking instantaneous ? Not sure about that, my brain seems to have slowed with age.

[bcuzbcuz]

What radical changes are you imagining that would require thousands of years to develop? Just look at what has happened in the past 100 years in the electric/electronics industry. Or the steel industry. It doesn't take thousands of years to come up with new ideas. It just takes someone, like God, to inspire us with all those ideas.

I doubt God was the inspiration for mobile phones. If that isn't a creation of the devil, I don't know what is!

Modern industrial change has little, to nothing, to do with what I'm talking about. Radical change takes thousands of years when the groups of people were as few and scattered as populations from 10,000 to 100,000 years ago. The evidence is quite clear on this. Grains going from single 'enkorn' grasses with the release of their mature single seed at the slightest touch to multi-seeded grasses which retained their mature seeds quick firmly is not an overnight process. Seeds run on their own clock.

Just when or who found the 'first' multi-grained heads of grass found only one or a few of such. A willful choice and selection, based on the intellectual insight to discern the importance of such a find was paramount. To have that 'find' be common enough for the planting of seeds and collecting of harvests took cultivation. Developing from hunter-gatherer and moving into small farming communities is also a process that doesn't happen overnight.

[cdowis]

This is not specifically addressed to you but to the issue. Simply stated, "Göbekli Tepe".

Göbekli Tepe, a relatively recent archaeological dig in southern Turkey, has ample evidence of populations that built temples, with elegantly carved columns. Carbon dating places the upper levels of the dig at 9000 years old and the lower levels are estimated at 11000 years old.

Somewhere, during this time period, our modern wheat plant went from being a single corn plant, that easily released its single seed, and was therefore difficult to harvest in a greater extent, to a multiple seeded plant, that also maintained its seed capsules.

OK, and we can leave open the possibility that it already existed elsewhere, and was transplanted.

Edited June 19, 2013 by cdowis

[Stone holm]

OK, and we can leave open the possibility that it already existed elsewhere, and was transplanted.

I would hope so.

[thesometimesaint]

Elder Nelson has an odd view of science, especially when it comes to the creation of the Earth and evolution, in light of his being a medical doctor and all...

But I agree that if we ignore what Elder Nelson and other Apostles have taught on the subject in General Conference and other official Church publications, then there is no contradiction between official LDS teachings and the theory of evolution.

Yes it is truly odd that Elder Nelson a medical doctor would not know the difference between a living organism and a nonliving explosion in print shop. All that is is a variation on the watchmaker analogy fallacy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmaker_analogy

[Questing Beast]

You believe thinking instantaneous ? Not sure about that, my brain seems to have slowed with age.

Your mind is held up by an aging, biological organ we call the human brain. The physical brain is not doing the thinking, it is the conduit for thought in this world, but the thinking originates elsewhere....

[Stone holm]

Your mind is held up by an aging, biological organ we call the human brain. The physical brain is not doing the thinking, it is the conduit for thought in this world, but the thinking originates elsewhere....

Ah...the age old metaphysical question as to what constitutes thought...

[thesometimesaint]

Your mind is held up by an aging, biological organ we call the human brain. The physical brain is not doing the thinking, it is the conduit for thought in this world, but the thinking originates elsewhere....

I knew it. I'm not responsible for some of my more brainless ideas.

[Stone holm]

I knew it. I'm not responsible for some of my more brainless ideas.

Ah no, I think he is increasing your accountability since you can not blame it on a brain dysfunction -- not sure what that translates into if you have Alzheimers, but what the heck, perhaps like Ahab you are just hearing voices in your head, I listen to them all the time.

[Calm]

Your mind is held up by an aging, biological organ we call the human brain. The physical brain is not doing the thinking, it is the conduit for thought in this world, but the thinking originates elsewhere....

Demonstrate this please.

[Stone holm]

Demonstrate this please.

Oh I love that Calmoriah, am eager to hear a demonstration of the age old metaphysical connection of the mind and body.

[thesometimesaint]

Ah no, I think he is increasing your accountability since you can not blame it on a brain dysfunction -- not sure what that translates into if you have Alzheimers, but what the heck, perhaps like Ahab you are just hearing voices in your head, I listen to them all the time.

We all have sensory hallucinations(brain dysfunctions). The human mind always goes to completion. That is why a works. It is also why television works. Television is just a series of electronic dots moving across a screen many times a second. We all process those images in our individual brains a little bit differently, and get to decide which if any are "real", or not. The closer we are to the agreed upon "reality" of those images the less mentally ill we are said to be.

Edited June 19, 2013 by thesometimesaint