thrushcross Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 Hey guys, I am a 20 year old guy from Pakistan but living in the UK (for my higher studies). I was born to an extremely fundamentalist Muslim family and was raised as a Muslim but I never liked my religion. It is a REALLY long story about my conversion from Islam to Mormonism but I just feel that Mormonism is the right beleif for me. In the past few days, I have done a ton of research on Mormonism and I feel it is the right religion for me. But I always fear for my life because apostosy is a major sin in Islam is punished my death. I even cannot reveal about my conversion to even my parents as they will disown me. My UK student visa expires in August and my I'll have to return to either the UAE or Pakistan, both of which are fundamentalist Muslim countries. Is there any hope for me?
Storm Rider Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 Yours is a difficult path, but it is one that others have walked before you. I live in the UAE and I am not sure I would agree that we are a fundamentalist nation; you would be much safer here than in Pakistan. Regardless, to accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Redeemer of mankind begins a new life and you enter into a new covenant to be his disciple. Few in the western world will understand the difficulties of such a decision, but each disciple of Jesus Christ understands the challenges of bearing our own cross as we follow him. There is great hope for you; Jesus offers that hope to us daily. He will not prevent bad things from happening, but through his loving and atoning sacrifice he assures of an Eternal Life. The only real counsel I can offer you is to talk to the local bishop or stake president; share your story with them. He may be of assistance is guiding you. Above all, this is a time of prayer and drawing closer to the Holy Spirit. They will continue to guide you, strengthen you, and support you overcome all your challenges and trials. You will be in my prayers. 3
thrushcross Posted June 2, 2013 Author Posted June 2, 2013 Thanks a lot for the reply Storm Rider. I have spoken to the local bishop and take president but they have said that they cannot really do anything. They also said that I cannot be baptised officially into the Church because my UK visa expires in just two months. The missionaries that I am in contact with ave guided me and told me to apply and transfer to BYU. However, once again I am worried about it because my father do not know that I am going to BYU and if he did, he would never, ever pay my fees and I would be completely destitute without him.Well, the area that my parents live in the UAE (Ajman) is just too Islamic and fundamentalist for me. I know that Abu Dhabi and Dubai are a lot more liberal. My parents and relatives in Ajman are really fundamentalist in Islam.I am just too confused. I have no idea what to do. My only hope is getting accepted into BYU for the Winter 2014 semester and possibly winning a scholarship or getting some financial aid.
rpn Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 Are you sure he would not pay your fees. There is a significant population of faithful muslims whose parents pay for them to attend BYU. After all Mormons adhere to lots of the things that Islam believes. Maybe you could tell your father that you found a school in the US where no one drinks, where everyone must agree not to have sex before marriage, and where most everyone fasts (though usually for 24 hours per month, not 30 days like ramadan). Ask him if he would be willing to pay the fees at a place in which living your faith will be encouraged rather than a constant battle. These are just a few of the links I found when googling "byu and Islam"http://thestudentreview.org/an-interview-with-shereen-a-muslim-byu-professor/http://universe.byu.edu/beta/2012/05/01/321-final-islam-at-byu/http://news.byu.edu/archive12-feb-beautyandbelief.aspx
Questing Beast Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 (edited) Hey guys, I am a 20 year old guy from Pakistan but living in the UK (for my higher studies). I was born to an extremely fundamentalist Muslim family and was raised as a Muslim but I never liked my religion. It is a REALLY long story about my conversion from Islam to Mormonism but I just feel that Mormonism is the right beleif for me. In the past few days, I have done a ton of research on Mormonism and I feel it is the right religion for me. But I always fear for my life because apostosy is a major sin in Islam is punished my death. I even cannot reveal about my conversion to even my parents as they will disown me. My UK student visa expires in August and my I'll have to return to either the UAE or Pakistan, both of which are fundamentalist Muslim countries. Is there any hope for me?The Life of Pi: Pi was Christian, Muslim and Hindu all at the same time, in his own mind and seeking soul. Why can't you be likewise? I see nothing but ecumenical desire in such an approach. Surely, "God" would approve of such a "quest", undertaken with the sincerest of motives and charity for all cousins on this planet; and we are all cousins by this point!Mormonism does not forbid being associated with other religions. All that is forbidden is that you side with enemies of the Church, or support them. If any religion has a mad-on against another then you would have a problem trying to be in both camps at the same time. But Mormonism is not the enemy of any other faith. Only fundamentalist Islamists are warring against everybody not Muslim, or even those not a specific "brand" of Islam. I suspect that your family is not one of that ilk? You don't have to tell them anything. When associating with your Muslim kin and friends, be a Muslim. When associating with Mormons, be a Mormon; and live like a Mormon at all times, which should fit in really well as a Muslim too, thankfully. By extension, if you are forbidden certain meats as a Muslim, then you ought, imho, not eat what Mormons-only eat, that is forbidden in Islam, otherwise you are being hypocritical to Islam. May you enjoy inner peace!(edit to add: I note that you do in fact use the words "extremely fundamentalist" to describe your upbringing and family. That could pose a problem right there, since your moral compass might very well veer in opposite directions from your upbringing, and rightly so! I have no advice in that regard, other than to assert that one must adhere to one's inner light at all costs, even with the loss of misdirected family who are in the thrall of fundamentalism. Sometimes family are too toxic for close, continuing association. Hopefully your family is not like that either....) Edited June 2, 2013 by Questing Beast
EllenMaksoud Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 Thanks a lot for the reply Storm Rider. I have spoken to the local bishop and take president but they have said that they cannot really do anything. They also said that I cannot be baptised officially into the Church because my UK visa expires in just two months. The missionaries that I am in contact with ave guided me and told me to apply and transfer to BYU. However, once again I am worried about it because my father do not know that I am going to BYU and if he did, he would never, ever pay my fees and I would be completely destitute without him.Well, the area that my parents live in the UAE (Ajman) is just too Islamic and fundamentalist for me. I know that Abu Dhabi and Dubai are a lot more liberal. My parents and relatives in Ajman are really fundamentalist in Islam.I am just too confused. I have no idea what to do. My only hope is getting accepted into BYU for the Winter 2014 semester and possibly winning a scholarship or getting some financial aid.As Salaam Alaykum:I was fundamentalist Christian for 30+ years, then converted to Islam for 7 years, when I met Mormon missionaries. I have now been Mormon for 1 1/2 years. I have struggled a lot in making the conversion, but Mormons believe in ONE God, Our Articles of Faith are very like the five Pillars. Notably, Mormons do not seem to engage in stoning, or any sort of mercy killing. My sole issue with Islam is that I never felt that they had correctly interpreted history in regard to Jesus Christ. Otherwise, I was always obedient to the ways of Islam and of the observance of Hijab.So, if you are truly wanting to be Mormon, Jesus Christ and the Atonement are key beliefs. Think hard on this. My family do not speak to me and it is pain in my heart but we each must choose our way. Isa PBUH said in Matthew 10:35, "I have come to turn Father against Son ... And the same thing in Luke 12:35. So, we some times must choose between Allah SWT and those we love. (Allah SWT is the same God as the one we Mormons believe in.) I do not think that you will find any religon more similar to Islam. In fact, I still believe that Muhammad PBUH was a prophet, and that the Holy Qur'an was given him by Allah SWT (God)Much Peace in your Path.Ellen
Duncan Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 The first baptism I had in the mission field was to a Muslim man
Judd Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 (edited) You wouldn't be limited to BYU, would you? You could theoretically go anywhere, no? Even places like UVU (Utah Valley University, a few miles from BYU) have a sizable international student population. In any case, BYU is comparatively cheap tuition for members of the church. I'd assume you could get some kind of scholarship, but not a good idea to plan around a hypothetical. I would assume you'd qualify for federal financial aid (in the form of student loans) but I really have no idea how that works with non-US citizens. Then there's always working. Edited June 2, 2013 by Judd
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 Hey guys, I am a 20 year old guy from Pakistan but living in the UK (for my higher studies). I was born to an extremely fundamentalist Muslim family and was raised as a Muslim but I never liked my religion. It is a REALLY long story about my conversion from Islam to Mormonism but I just feel that Mormonism is the right beleif for me. In the past few days, I have done a ton of research on Mormonism and I feel it is the right religion for me. But I always fear for my life because apostosy is a major sin in Islam is punished my death. I even cannot reveal about my conversion to even my parents as they will disown me. My UK student visa expires in August and my I'll have to return to either the UAE or Pakistan, both of which are fundamentalist Muslim countries. Is there any hope for me?I came from a long Baptist linage, was considered a prodigy for the pulpit. Began preaching at 19, then I moved to Germany, was introduced to the truth...the whole truth. From that time on, my fate was set via the truth. I fell out of favor with many family members...this changed with time. Everyone who feels strongly about their faith feel threatened when someone leaves...integrity demands action. My father also a minister sat me down and said, "I just want to know one thing, do you still believe Jesus Christ is your Saviour"? I told him yes, and all was good, my Aunts and Uncles were not so forgiving. Now at family gatherings I am asked to pray, and loved. To quote the Saviour, "the truth will set you free". No price is to heavy to have the truth, it is not just about you but your generations to come. Allah be with you.
tyler90az Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 (edited) Hey guys, I am a 20 year old guy from Pakistan but living in the UK (for my higher studies). I was born to an extremely fundamentalist Muslim family and was raised as a Muslim but I never liked my religion. It is a REALLY long story about my conversion from Islam to Mormonism but I just feel that Mormonism is the right beleif for me. In the past few days, I have done a ton of research on Mormonism and I feel it is the right religion for me. But I always fear for my life because apostosy is a major sin in Islam is punished my death. I even cannot reveal about my conversion to even my parents as they will disown me. My UK student visa expires in August and my I'll have to return to either the UAE or Pakistan, both of which are fundamentalist Muslim countries. Is there any hope for me?God bless! Edited June 3, 2013 by tyler90az
Alan Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 (edited) It may be possible for you to apply for refugee status here in the UK if you can clearly show that your life would be in danger if you returned home.But that would mean that you would have to stay in the UK while your case was considered. If you were successful you would then gain residency in the UK and all EU countries. It may also mean that you would never be able to return home. A high price to pay.The missionaries in my ward are currently teaching a Pakistani man, who looks likely to join the church. However, he was born a Christian in Pakistan, so although he had experienced some difficulties there, he didn't convert from Islam so his life is not in danger. However, he now has permanent residency in the UK.My personal advice to you is to join the church and put your trust in God, but I recognise that is very easy for me to say. Edited June 3, 2013 by Alan 1
halconero Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 trushcross, I am in contact with a Pakistani family that attends one of the only branches in Pakistan. They converted while in the United States before moving back and now go to church with all the ex-pats. If you want, I can contact them for you and maybe act as a liason. I need to be very careful with this and take my cues from them, rather than try and do anything myself. Send me a private message if interested.
Avatar4321 Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 I can't really offer any advice other than to listen to the counsel of James: "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God who gives to all men liberally and upbraideth not." It seems to me that if anyone needs wisdom, you do. Exercise faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and talk with the Lord. He will give you the guidence you need. Just be sincere with Him and seek to do His will. 1
Calm Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) It may be possible for you to apply for refugee status here in the UK if you can clearly show that your life would be in danger if you returned home.But that would mean that you would have to stay in the UK while your case was considered. If you were successful you would then gain residency in the UK and all EU countries. It may also mean that you would never be able to return home. A high price to pay.It also sounds like his choices are complicated by the fact he is not now currently capable of supporting himself. Would his refugee status be any different? Could he obtain help from the government or some private agency to finish school so he is employable?I think this is a major problem. It is one thing to make the decision to hide necessary information from your family if you are independent of them, but to do so when one is taking money from them...even if what is being hidden is a good thing though they view it as horrible...maybe this is just because of my own personal with my father, but my feeling is if I am financially dependent on someone I am also in essence also agreeing to live by their rules and if I wanted to live differently I need to become independent of them.IOW I am suggesting that before he makes the decision to become LDS, he finishes school if possible (it may not be) and becomes more capable of being able to live independently...both so he won't have to live a double existence with his family where he is taking money from them while choosing another faith, but also so if he has to take the step to cut off all contact in order to be safe. Attending BYU on his family's money while representing it as a good school for Muslims to go to (it is, that's not the point I'm trying to make) while attending it so he can be a practising LDS....that gets into iffy territory for me.If he has no choice about returning to home where he may not be able to leave again even when he becomes financially capable of taking care of himself, than that is an additional problem and I agree he needs to look into refugee status or possibly seek out a charitable organization who supports those who do not wish to live in such countries. Edited June 5, 2013 by calmoriah
Calm Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 My only hope is getting accepted into BYU for the Winter 2014 semester and possibly winning a scholarship or getting some financial aid.You wouldn't be limited to BYU, would you? You could theoretically go anywhere, no? Even places like UVU (Utah Valley University, a few miles from BYU) have a sizable international student population.He would have to pay out of state tuition for other institutions I believe, so probably BYU would be cheaper (once he becomes baptized) and working on a student visa may be a problem so I agree with him that a scholarship or financial aid is probably his best bet if he can get into BYU. While not usually applied to BYU plus having some other usual restrictions, I believe, perhaps the Perpetual Education Fund would be an option. http://pef.lds.org/?locale=eng
Calm Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) Looked at PEF requirements and it is not usually available for US or Canada (probably because of other financial options being available) but it might be available to you in the UK even though it is not currently approved for it (again probably because there are usually plenty of other financial aid available).http://pef.lds.org/p...home?locale=engI would still contact them to see if an exception would be made for you if you can get granted refugee status or your student visa is extended.Though one concern, if you continue on a student visa from your country, could your family contact the consulate or some other government agency to track you down? Edited June 5, 2013 by calmoriah
Calm Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) Here is an international student loan program for the US: http://www.internationalstudentloan.com/Some info: http://blog.wellsfargo.com/StudentLoanDown/2008/03/student_loans_for_internationa.html Edited June 5, 2013 by calmoriah
Avatar4321 Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 Our friend here is 20 years old. I don't subscribe to the idea that he is unable to take care of himself if he needs to. Our forefathers were taking care of themselves by age 14-16 just 100-200 years ago.Trust in the Lord. He will guide and sustain you and provide a way for you to survive. And if not and you are called to give your life for the faith, you will be blessed for your faith. Though I anticipate that not being the case. 1
Calm Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 I don't subscribe to the idea that he is unable to take care of himself if he needs to.There may be legal issues with him working if all he has is a student visa, including one that is about to expire.
Wants2know Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 I don't understand why he wouldn't be allowed to join the church even if his visa was about to expire?
tyler90az Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 (edited) If you want a Student Visa to the US you need to go back to your home country. Then once in your home country prove to a Visa Officer that you will return after school. Do not tell your parents you are LDS if they will not help you get a Student visa. Since it sounds like you have nothing it could be a tough task getting a visa. Edited June 6, 2013 by tyler90az
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