The Latest From Grant Palmer

[Duncan]

Just to clarify there is still some as of yet unnamed General Authority out there that Grant Palmer knows about and who is meeting with him and doesn't believe? according to Palmer

[KevinG]

Just to clarify there is still some as of yet unnamed General Authority out there that Grant Palmer knows about and who is meeting with him and doesn't believe? according to Palmer

Not possible the Danites would have tracked him to Palmer's meeting place and killed them both by now.

[Calm]

Just to clarify there is still some as of yet unnamed General Authority out there that Grant Palmer knows about and who is meeting with him and doesn't believe? according to Palmer

Who is a current member of the First Seventy, who has been involved in many high profile activities, who probably was around for quite sometime (at least since 2004) if his accounts of the interactions between Seventies and Apostles is based on firsthand experience and not just passing on others' opinion...and who goes around at firesides asking controversial questions to get people to doubt as well as hands out Palmer's book to those he feels comfortable enough to do so.

[mfbukowski]

Who is a current member of the First Seventy, who has been involved in many high profile activities, who probably was around for quite sometime (at least since 2004) if his accounts of the interactions between Seventies and Apostles is based on firsthand experience and not just passing on others' opinion...and who goes around at firesides asking controversial questions to get people to doubt as well as hands out Palmer's book to those he feels comfortable enough to do so.

Yep- now that you put it all in one place- it really shows there are a few problems in that story

[Calm]

Yep- now that you put it all in one place- it really shows there are a few problems in that story

And let's not forget that though this man is a man of integrity and love according to Palmer, he feels comfortable enough to leave the Church...all 15 millions members or so....in the hands of those he describes as "corrupt" and "evil":

I said that if the apostles know the church is not true and yet order a disciplinary hearing for my writing a book that is almost certainly true regarding the foundational claims of the church, then they are corrupt even evil. He replied, “That’s right!”

He's not even willing to speak up for the renowned historian and scholar he believes is going to save the Church when the time of its demise comes, but just sits silent....unless he's talking to Palmer or the also missing in action former MP.

You know, if I saw my family and friends being influenced by someone who I believed was corrupt and evil, the last thing you would see me doing is sitting there twiddling my thumbs waiting for fate to overtake those who had such power and so misused it.

Edited April 12, 2013 by calmoriah

[Duncan]

Who is a current member of the First Seventy, who has been involved in many high profile activities, who probably was around for quite sometime (at least since 2004) if his accounts of the interactions between Seventies and Apostles is based on firsthand experience and not just passing on others' opinion...and who goes around at firesides asking controversial questions to get people to doubt as well as hands out Palmer's book to those he feels comfortable enough to do so.

And who is around in SLC who can attend all these meetings. I can count I dunno half a dozen or so brethren who were called in the 1980's-1990's who are in the 1st Quorum of the 70-all but three are in area presidencies around the world and I highly, highly doubt it's the remaining 3 brethren-Elder Maynes, Elder Bruce Porter and Elder Lynn Robbins

[Mark Beesley]

Grant Palmer lied for years. As an employee of CES he lied about his faith, testimony, and loyalty. Now, he wants others to believe that General Authorities are also lying when they testify that they know the Church is true. Of course he would like us to believe that. It would, to his mind, excuse his own history of lying. Unfortunately, for Grant, a known liar trying to expose the imagined lies of others is engaged in a useless exercise in mental masturbation. The man deserves no more consideration that being shown one's backside.

Edited to add: I probably should not have posted the above. For while it is all true, from my perspective, it is not very charitable. Palmer is still a child of God, a God who weeps over the foibles of His children. Hopefully, one day, Palmer will find a way back into the light. But I don't envy him. How does one undo that kind of damage?

Edited April 12, 2013 by Mark Beesley

[CASteinman]

Just to clarify there is still some as of yet unnamed General Authority out there that Grant Palmer knows about and who is meeting with him and doesn't believe? according to Palmer

It appears that way. I have not had time but I want to do a "Jesus Seminar" type of analysis, or perhaps a CIA type of source credibility analysis on the text of Palmer's revelations.

But I have not had the time.

Seems like you could look at it in terms of some assumptions: Assume that Palmer is telling the truth but got the story wrong. Assume that Palmer is telling the truth and got the story right. Assume that The GA is telling the truth as he sees it. Or assume at different levels that people are lying or mixed up.

Edited April 12, 2013 by CASteinman

[Questing Beast]

Ooo! the "M" word....

[CASteinman]

And who is around in SLC who can attend all these meetings. I can count I dunno half a dozen or so brethren who were called in the 1980's-1990's who are in the 1st Quorum of the 70-all but three are in area presidencies around the world and I highly, highly doubt it's the remaining 3 brethren-Elder Maynes, Elder Bruce Porter and Elder Lynn Robbins

Well, it could also be someone who has lived in Salt Lake and still maintains a home there, while traveling frequently.

[Duncan]

It appears that way. I have not had time but I want to do a "Jesus Seminar" type of analysis, or perhaps a CIA type of source credibility analysis on the text of Palmer's revelations.

But I have not had the time.

Seems like you could look at it in terms of some assumptions: Assume that Palmer is telling the truth but got the story wrong. Assume that Palmer is telling the truth and got the story right. Assume that The GA is telling the truth as he sees it. Or assume at different levels that people are lying or mixed up.

I say we hire Jim Rockford and stake out Palmer's house! haha!

[Mark Beesley]

Ooo! the "M" word....

You like that? I first heard the expression from a woman who was one of the managing attorney's in a law office where I worked. It obviously held no sexual connotation, and perfectly expressed the idea it conveyed.

[KevinG]

Of course Duncan you forgot the ubiquitous Elder Anonymous!

[Duncan]

Of course Duncan you forgot the ubiquitous Elder Anonymous!

he's the new Greek GA?! hahaha!

Edited April 12, 2013 by Duncan

[Daniel Peterson]

I've known Bruce Porter since we were freshmen together at BYU -- long before he was called to the Seventy -- and we've remained friends ever since. If he's a secret doubter, he, not Daniel Day-Lewis, deserves this year's Oscar for Best Actor.

[Duncan]

I've known Bruce Porter since we were freshmen together at BYU -- long before he was called to the Seventy -- and we've remained friends ever since. If he's a secret doubter, he, not Daniel Day-Lewis, deserves this year's Oscar for Best Actor.

I can't imagine either it's him or anyone else, it's all so bizarre! in fact I am kinda hoping Elder Porter becomes an Apostle someday!

Edited April 13, 2013 by Duncan

[jwhitlock]

Bill Hamblin just posted a link in his blog to Jeff Lindsey's great review of Palmer's claim, along with some additional analysis of why the story is so implausible. The link Bill provides to the review is here.

Edited April 13, 2013 by jwhitlock

[CASteinman]

You like that? I first heard the expression from a woman who was one of the managing attorney's in a law office where I worked. It obviously held no sexual connotation, and perfectly expressed the idea it conveyed.

It is crude and unbecoming. But everyone has a choice.

[Stargazer]

Grant Palmer lied for years. As an employee of CES he lied about his faith, testimony, and loyalty. Now, he wants others to believe that General Authorities are also lying when they testify that they know the Church is true. Of course he would like us to believe that. It would, to his mind, excuse his own history of lying. Unfortunately, for Grant, a known liar trying to expose the imagined lies of others is engaged in a useless exercise in mental masturbation. The man deserves no more consideration that being shown one's backside.

Edited to add: I probably should not have posted the above. For while it is all true, from my perspective, it is not very charitable. Palmer is still a child of God, a God who weeps over the foibles of His children. Hopefully, one day, Palmer will find a way back into the light. But I don't envy him. How does one undo that kind of damage?

You don't. If you ever turn away from evil, there will always be something you can't repair. Remember Alma the Younger? If Palmer ever repents, he will be as he. With a real load of guilt.

Fortunately, as for Alma, the same for Grant. The Atonement will cover him.

But will he come back? One hopes, but...

Edited April 14, 2013 by Stargazer

[Stargazer]

I've known Bruce Porter since we were freshmen together at BYU -- long before he was called to the Seventy -- and we've remained friends ever since. If he's a secret doubter, he, not Daniel Day-Lewis, deserves this year's Oscar for Best Actor.

You knew him that long ago? Cool. I shared some time with him on our missions, and later when we were coincidentally servicemen's branch presidents in the Stuttgart Germany Servicemen's Stake. I counted it a privilege to know him and associate with him, even the little that I was able to. It was not at all a surprise to me when he was called into the Seventy.

[CASteinman]

Seems fruitless to try to identify this person but for people interested in speculating about the faithfulness of other members, this could technically be an emeritus GA as well.

But I don't think you can ID anyone from this account really. It might not even be true. And if there is any truth to it, the fellow is disguised in the stories somehow.

In fact, if you really pay attention, the story excludes everyone: there is no one who fits that description really.

Edited April 14, 2013 by CASteinman

[Nathair/|\]

You like that? I first heard the expression from a woman who was one of the managing attorney's in a law office where I worked. It obviously held no sexual connotation, and perfectly expressed the idea it conveyed.

I'm finding that link blocked for "adult content." Would you mind summarizing for me?

[ERayR]

I'm finding that link blocked for "adult content." Would you mind summarizing for me?

the act of engaging in intelligent and interesting conversation purely for the enjoyment of your own greatness and individuality. Subjects range from obscure lp's to cultural movements in preindustrial societies. Either delivered through grand monlogues or subtle conversation orientation, it links large words and random references resulting in nothing acually being communicated.

[ERayR]

the act of engaging in intelligent and interesting conversation purely for the enjoyment of your own greatness and individuality. Subjects range from obscure lp's to cultural movements in preindustrial societies. Either delivered through grand monlogues or subtle conversation orientation, it links large words and random references resulting in nothing acually being communicated.

I'm not sure Mark has used the expression correctly as IMNSHO Palmer's conversation is neither interesting nor intelligent. So to me Marks use of that crude expression was inappropriate.

[mfbukowski]

And let's not forget that though this man is a man of integrity and love according to Palmer, he feels comfortable enough to leave the Church...all 15 millions members or so....in the hands of those he describes as "corrupt" and "evil":

He's not even willing to speak up for the renowned historian and scholar he believes is going to save the Church when the time of its demise comes, but just sits silent....unless he's talking to Palmer or the also missing in action former MP.

You know, if I saw my family and friends being influenced by someone who I believed was corrupt and evil, the last thing you would see me doing is sitting there twiddling my thumbs waiting for fate to overtake those who had such power and so misused it.

Absolutely! Definitely an additional and incredibly important dimension to all this!