The Latest From Grant Palmer

[why me]

Grant Palmer wrote:

We have at this writing met three times. We first met on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 and again February 14, 2013 at my house. On March 26, 2013 we convened at the GAs house. Upon entering my home for the first meeting the GA said, “We are here to learn.” I recognized him. He has been a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy for a number of years. He has served in several high profile assignments during this period. The following are the more important statements made by the GA during our first three meetings. We now meet monthly.

He said that each new member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles is given one million dollars to take care of any financial obligations they have. This money gift allows them to fully focus on the ministry. He said that the overriding consideration of who is chosen is whether they are “church broke,” meaning, will they do whatever they are told. He said the senior six apostles make the agenda and do most of the talking. The junior six are told to observe, listen and learn and really only comment if they are asked. He said that it takes about two to three years before the new apostle discovers that the church is not true. He said it took Dieter F. Uchtdorf a little longer because he was an outsider. He said they privately talk among themselves and know the foundational claims of the restoration are not true, but continue on boldly “because the people need it,” meaning the people need the church. When the Mission President voiced skepticism and named ___ as one who surely did believe, The GA said: “No, he doesn’t.” The one million dollar gift, plus their totally obedient attitude makes it easy for them to go along when they find out the church is not true. For these reasons and others, he doesn’t expect any apostle to ever expose the truth about the foundational claims.

http://journeyofloya...m/2013/04/06/6/

This is just a part of what he is now claiming. The writing seems to have been verified as being from Grant Palmer. If so, I found his take on it quite unbelievable. I think that he needs to name names if he is posting such 'information'.

Edited April 8, 2013 by why me

[Calm]

Right....because the first and apparently only person that someone in the know would expose this information to is Grant Palmer....

[canard78]

Grant Palmer wrote:

We have at this writing met three times. We first met on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 and again February 14, 2013 at my house. On March 26, 2013 we convened at the GAs house. Upon entering my home for the first meeting the GA said, “We are here to learn.” I recognized him. He has been a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy for a number of years. He has served in several high profile assignments during this period. The following are the more important statements made by the GA during our first three meetings. We now meet monthly.

He said that each new member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles is given one million dollars to take care of any financial obligations they have. This money gift allows them to fully focus on the ministry. He said that the overriding consideration of who is chosen is whether they are “church broke,” meaning, will they do whatever they are told. He said the senior six apostles make the agenda and do most of the talking. The junior six are told to observe, listen and learn and really only comment if they are asked. He said that it takes about two to three years before the new apostle discovers that the church is not true. He said it took Dieter F. Uchtdorf a little longer because he was an outsider. He said they privately talk among themselves and know the foundational claims of the restoration are not true, but continue on boldly “because the people need it,” meaning the people need the church. When the Mission President voiced skepticism and named ___ as one who surely did believe, The GA said: “No, he doesn’t.” The one million dollar gift, plus their totally obedient attitude makes it easy for them to go along when they find out the church is not true. For these reasons and others, he doesn’t expect any apostle to ever expose the truth about the foundational claims.

http://journeyofloya...m/2013/04/06/6/

This is just a part of what he is now claiming. The writing seems to have been verified as being from Grant Palmer. If so, I found his take on it quite unbelievable. I think that he needs to name names if he is posting such 'information'.

I agree - that's completely ludicrous and lacking credibility.

If it is Grant Palmer, he's undermining any scrap of credibility he had left.

A lot of these men are probably already very wealthy given their professional backgrounds. I'm not sure how their silence could have been bought off for so many years. Every one of them? Going to their graves representing such an outrageous lie. Why, on their deathbeds, when a million dollars is meaningless, would they continue to preach it.

[canard78]

Right....because the first and apparently only person that someone in the know would expose this information to is Grant Palmer....

Exactly. And given his track record of not being known to be particularly 'discreet' with his visit to the church archives in the past, a 70 is really going to go and spill his guts about this.

I wonder... is this 70 staying quiet to a wider audience in the hope of getting his million dollar payoff in the future? Otherwise, why doesn't he blow his whistle and reveal to the world what a huge lie it all is? Genuinely ridiculous. I actually can't even believe this is Grant Palmer.

[Calm]

And if "it takes about two to three years before the new apostle discovers that the church is not true" then how did the Seventy and MP find out about this big secret since they are not in the 12?

add-on: I explain my confusion below...don't need to respond to any of my questions if it is addressed in the alleged Palmer memo.

Edited April 8, 2013 by calmoriah

[Calm]

Upon entering my home for the first meeting the GA said, “We are here to learn.” I recognized him. He has been a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy for a number of years.

And what is with this? Did he not know who he was going to meet with? Did someone call him and playact "Deep Throat"? What is it that they are "learning" and how are they doing it? A seance perhaps?

March 26, 2013

This was supposed to be the last of the three meetings he participated in, meeting once about 5 months ago and then again two months ago and then last month. He then goes on to say "we now meet monthly". Are these guys his confidential informants? Why once a month? Why not once a week? What is the purpose of this monthly meeting and are we going to get updates sometime in April?

All the cloak and dagger detail makes it sound like a fantasy.

Edited April 8, 2013 by calmoriah

[Calm]

never mind, for some reason (probably the drugs I took to help me sleep that tend to play games with my perception and retention) I registered as the quote that why me put up as the whole thing even though I had read the rest of the info on facebook, so when I came across another site posting it, I thought it was a more complete quote...but why me's is the same so ignore this post and this explanation and let's hope I can get some sleep.

Edited April 8, 2013 by calmoriah

[Calm]

The GA said the church is like a weakened dam. At first you don’t see cracks on the face; nevertheless, things are happening behind the scenes. Eventually, small cracks appear, and then the dam will “explode.” When it does, he said, the members are going to be “shocked” and will need scholars/historians like me to educate them regarding the Mormon past.

Oh dear.

The GA is a man of integrity and very loving.

He knows it is all a lie and yet he allows his ward to treat him like a king and continues to perpetuate the lie through his church work....I don't see a lot of integrity there myself. Nor do I see a lot of love when he is willing to let people believe in a lie because he is apparently too uncomfortable to expose it.

Also:

When I asked the GA how he knew these things, he answered by saying that the Quorum of the Twelve today is more isolated from the Quorums of the Seventies now because there are several of them. When only one Quorum of the Seventy existed, there was more intimacy. During his one on one assignments with an apostle, conversations were more familiar. He said that none of the apostles ever said to him directly that they did not believe; but that it was his opinion based on “my interactions with them.”

He also states that it takes 2 to 3 years for an apostle to figure out that it is all a lie. Since they don't actually tell him that, he must be finding out by observation. If so, then he's been in for a long time (minimum since about 2004 when President Uchtdorf became an apostle so he had the chance to observe him, but if the comment about the Seventies is from personal experience that would mean he has been in the Seventies since at least 1989 when the 2nd Quorum was formed) without feeling the need to expose the lie or even find some way to gracefully retire so he wasn't helping perpetuate the lie....again I see no integrity or love in this man if this were a true story.

add-on and on: There are only seven Seventies of the First Quorum who have been in longer than 2000 and only one since 1989: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_general_authorities_of_The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints#First_Quorum_of_the_Seventy

Edited April 8, 2013 by calmoriah

[Duncan]

I have a hard time believing any of this, I don't know if it comes from Mr. Palmer or not but it sounds ludicrous

[Calm]

We need a word print study to see if he is the actual author.

[canard78]

I said that if the apostles know the church is not true and yet order a disciplinary hearing for my writing a book that is almost certainly true regarding the foundational claims of the church, then they are corrupt even evil. He replied, “That’s right!”

A GA says that? Riiiiight!

In the comments this is shown to be some 'form letter' that is going round and some of them 'claim' to have had confirmation from Grant to publish.

It lacks credibility that Grant is writing this

It lacks credibility that he is even having these meetings (if he did write this)

It just lacks...

[Calm]

Did a search and the NOM forums have posted claims that Dehlin called up Palmer and confirmed that Palmer was the author plus a post from the blogger's daughter giving his identity as Christopher Ralph.

I think Palmer is feeling a bit neglected and decided to grab some attention again.

Edited April 8, 2013 by calmoriah

[canard78]

We need a word print study to see if he is the actual author.

Lol, and some witnesses too, some of which need an angel to show the original.

[Calm]

Lol, and some witnesses too, some of which need an angel to show the original.

At the very least.

I will believe this (that the GA told him this, not what alleged GA stated) when he presents the name of the GA and the GA confirms it. It will take a bit more evidence to me to demonstrate none of the 12 believe as well as the million dollar payoff.

Edited April 8, 2013 by calmoriah

[Storm Rider]

I have heard a lot of rumors before, but I have to question Grant's mental state if actually is selling this pitiful excuse for real criticism. First of all, how does a member of the FQS know how the Q of the 12 interact? On what occasion did this member attend Q meeting and observe the inner workings and directives of the 12? He obviously has never had an occasion to actually see these apostolic individuals in a real meeting because their very actions defy the credibility of these statements. I am still shaking my head that he would say something so obviously and patently stupid. I wonder if he is taking too much of his medicine? There has to be a reason that he would pawn this caliber of snake oil.

[why me]

I have heard a lot of rumors before, but I have to question Grant's mental state if actually is selling this pitiful excuse for real criticism. First of all, how does a member of the FQS know how the Q of the 12 interact? On what occasion did this member attend Q meeting and observe the inner workings and directives of the 12? He obviously has never had an occasion to actually see these apostolic individuals in a real meeting because their very actions defy the credibility of these statements. I am still shaking my head that he would say something so obviously and patently stupid. I wonder if he is taking too much of his medicine? There has to be a reason that he would pawn this caliber of snake oil.

Also the GAs who feel this way would be Class A sociopaths or psychopaths---human beings without emotions or feelings, allowing millions of people to believe in something false.

[Calm]

I have heard a lot of rumors before, but I have to question Grant's mental state if actually is selling this pitiful excuse for real criticism. First of all, how does a member of the FQS know how the Q of the 12 interact? On what occasion did this member attend Q meeting and observe the inner workings and directives of the 12? He obviously has never had an occasion to actually see these apostolic individuals in a real meeting because their very actions defy the credibility of these statements.

It is obvious from Palmer's comments that this GA is someone who the 12 trust enough to share gossip with about what goes on even if they don't share their own true feelings....just their luck that they choose someone who is then willing to go blab it to someone like Palmer.

[blackstrap]

I've said before and I'll say it again,... You have got to be kidding !!!

[Tacenda]

April Fool's Day was last week guys, either you are being pranked by this website or someone here on the MDDB is pranking.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Tacenda

[CASteinman]

I have to get to my Day Job but ...

One of the reasons I am grateful for the recency of the ministry of Joseph Smith is that we have a very detailed record of what he was doing for most of that time and how people reacted. Joseph Smith had to be extremely nimble and yet focused to accomplish all that he did in those few short years. I "watch" him as his enemies would come at him in different ways, see how he reacts and the moves he makes, the words he says --- and it helps me better understand some of the words and actions of Jesus when He was restoring the Church and dealing with opposition. (There are a few examples but I think John 7 is one of the more blatant instances).

And so, in this current time, we see stories coming out about the present Prophet and Apostles. This reminds me of the stories told about Joseph Smith. And similar stories told about Jesus -- Judas comes to mind and his concerns about the purse.

The times change. The technology changes. The underlying methods and objectives of satan do not change.

I have felt for a while now that open apostates should not have resignations accepted. They should be excommunicated.

Edited April 8, 2013 by CASteinman

[canard78]

I have felt for a while now that open apostates should not have resignations accepted. They should be excommunicated.

The church wouldn't be able to for legal reasons. They could symbolically excommunicate them later, but if someone writes directly to the COB requesting name removal it has to be done with immediate effect.

Besides. Resigning and being excommunicated is no difference for the individual. They lose their blessings and can't just waltz back in later.

[awyatt]

The post is hogwash. It reminds me of being outside General Conference in, IIRC, 2005, and some lady going around saying she had been the victim of ritual sexual abuse on the secret altars of the temple. Her claim was that the Q12 engaged in the abuse, and it had been going on for years. The street preachers and other critics there that day listened, astonished, and ate it up.

If this came from Grant, shame on him. There is no way that such a conspiracy (and that's what it is) could be kept quiet for so long -- there are too many people involved. It isn't just the Q12, but the FP, all their wives, all their children, their secretaries and clerks, and so on. If there had been any truth to such a thing, it would have been trumpeted by Steve Benson years ago.

-Allen

[CASteinman]

The church wouldn't be able to for legal reasons. They could symbolically excommunicate them later, but if someone writes directly to the COB requesting name removal it has to be done with immediate effect.

I would do that. I would send them a letter saying that their request was received and that it will be acted upon immediately -- please allow 4 to 6 weeks for shipping and handling. Then excommunicate them and send them two letters.

[Questing Beast]

Grant Palmer wrote:

We have at this writing met three times. We first met on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 and again February 14, 2013 at my house. On March 26, 2013 we convened at the GAs house. Upon entering my home for the first meeting the GA said, “We are here to learn.” I recognized him. He has been a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy for a number of years. He has served in several high profile assignments during this period. The following are the more important statements made by the GA during our first three meetings. We now meet monthly.

He said that each new member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles is given one million dollars to take care of any financial obligations they have. This money gift allows them to fully focus on the ministry. He said that the overriding consideration of who is chosen is whether they are “church broke,” meaning, will they do whatever they are told. He said the senior six apostles make the agenda and do most of the talking. The junior six are told to observe, listen and learn and really only comment if they are asked. He said that it takes about two to three years before the new apostle discovers that the church is not true. He said it took Dieter F. Uchtdorf a little longer because he was an outsider. He said they privately talk among themselves and know the foundational claims of the restoration are not true, but continue on boldly “because the people need it,” meaning the people need the church. When the Mission President voiced skepticism and named ___ as one who surely did believe, The GA said: “No, he doesn’t.” The one million dollar gift, plus their totally obedient attitude makes it easy for them to go along when they find out the church is not true. For these reasons and others, he doesn’t expect any apostle to ever expose the truth about the foundational claims.

http://journeyofloya...m/2013/04/06/6/

This is just a part of what he is now claiming. The writing seems to have been verified as being from Grant Palmer. If so, I found his take on it quite unbelievable. I think that he needs to name names if he is posting such 'information'.

Fascinating! And bogus until/unless as you say names are named. This is not a time for being coy or cryptic....

[canard78]

April Fool's Day was last week guys, either you are being pranked by this website or someone here on the MDDB is pranking.

You might be into something. It was posted 6th April but the blogger says this was sent to him a few days ago. I wonder if it was started on April 1st