Wow Prohibition On Beer Simply An Artifact Of Prohibition?

[Saints Alive]

I found this blog recently: http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2009/06/too-bad-i-dont-like-beer.html

I can't find an author name on it (maybe he/she is a MDDB member?) but I do believe they have made a strong argument that the WoW never meant to prohibit all forms of alcohol. Similarly to how some members equate the prohibition on hot drinks to caffeine, except that due to Prohibition all alcohol became forbidden.

[Calm]

I found this blog recently: http://puremormonism...-like-beer.html

I can't find an author name on it (maybe he/she is a MDDB member?)

His name and bio is posted on the righthand side: Alan Rock Waterman

[Saints Alive]

His name and bio is posted on the righthand side: Alan Rock Waterman

Thanks, cant believe I missed it.

[cinepro]

I'm pretty sure the outright ban on alcohol (including beer) pre-dates prohibition. But the temperance movement pre-dates prohibition as well.

[Saints Alive]

I'm pretty sure the outright ban on alcohol (including beer) pre-dates prohibition. But the temperance movement pre-dates prohibition as well.

Not according to the blog, IIRC mormon owned breweries were not closed until 1919.

[Scott Lloyd]

Not according to the blog, IIRC mormon owned breweries were not closed until 1919.

It took a long time for the Word of Wisdom to become generally binding as a commandment.

And it's up to the living prophet -- not some pundit -- to determine in a given time and setting what a revelation from God is "meant" to convey.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Scott Lloyd

[Saints Alive]

It took a long time for the Word of Wisdom to become generally binding as a commandment.

And it's up to the living prophet -- not some pundit -- to determine in a given time and setting what a revelation from God is "meant" to convey.

Even the Prophet can't read something into scripture that isn't there. Imagine what would happen if we had a Prophet that didn't like caffeine, or better yet, a federal ban on caffeine. If it were up to JFS, we would all be vegetarians now except for december to march. Edited February 7, 2013 by Saints Alive

[The Nehor]

Even the Prophet can't read something into scripture that isn't there. Imagine what would happen if we had a Prophet that didn't like caffeine, or better yet, a federal ban on caffeine. If it were up to JFS, we would all be vegetarians now except for december to march.

I would counter JFS by arguing that the "much want" clause would justify my moderate meat eating habits.

Also if the Prophet starts leading us astray in a major way then the Brethren can try him or God can take him.

[Saints Alive]

Also if the Prophet starts leading us astray in a major way then the Brethren can try him or God can take him.

The bolded part is important, I'm guessing God doesn't care much if we dont drink Beer.

[Ahab]

I've always known what "mild" drinks refers to and yet my wife still feels uncomfortable with the idea of me drinking beer.

There are soft drinks (like soda pop), and there are hard drinks (like hard liquor).

My preference is to be right smack dab in the middle, as far as drinks go.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I live in an area where there is a lot of micro brewing.

[David T]

It took a long time for the Word of Wisdom to become generally binding as a commandment.

Actually, there was a paper posted recently (The Word of Wisdom in its First Decade, by Paul Y. Hoskisson in Journal of Mormon History 38:1 - Winter 2012) showing very interestingly how almost immediately, the full binding effect of the revelation was in force, and enforced, through the Kirtland and Missouri years, and then only in Nauvoo did it start to be relaxed again. The reasons and explanations for the relaxing of the practice - even by Joseph - I found fascinating, and quite enlightening.

It's thought by many that it was ignored or not enforced from the beginning, and not until Brigham Young or Heber Grant was it first actually made a commandment, or put into its proper place, but that narrative is incomplete.

Edited February 7, 2013 by David T

[Ahab]

Actually, there was a paper posted recently (The Word of Wisdom in its First Decade, by Paul Y. Hoskisson in Journal of Mormon History 38:1 - Winter 2012) showing very interestingly how almost immediately, the full binding effect of the revelation was in force, and enforced, through the Kirtland and Missouri years, and then only in Nauvoo did it start to be relaxed again. The reasons and explanations for the relaxing of the practice - even by Joseph - I found fascinating, and quite enlightening.

It's thought by many that it was ignored or not enforced from the beginning, and not until Brigham Young or Heber Grant was it first actually made a commandment, or put into its proper place, but that narrative is incomplete.

Even when in full force it would still be acceptable to drink "mild" drinks, just as it is now.

It's just that some people are uncomfortable with the idea of other people drinking beer... and even root beer if in a brown bottle.

[semlogo]

Actually, there was a paper posted recently (The Word of Wisdom in its First Decade, by Paul Y. Hoskisson in Journal of Mormon History 38:1 - Winter 2012) showing very interestingly how almost immediately, the full binding effect of the revelation was in force, and enforced, through the Kirtland and Missouri years, and then only in Nauvoo did it start to be relaxed again. The reasons and explanations for the relaxing of the practice - even by Joseph - I found fascinating, and quite enlightening.

It's thought by many that it was ignored or not enforced from the beginning, and not until Brigham Young or Heber Grant was it first actually made a commandment, or put into its proper place, but that narrative is incomplete.

I had no idea, thanks for sharing that.

[sethpayne]

I'm pretty sure the outright ban on alcohol (including beer) pre-dates prohibition. But the temperance movement pre-dates prohibition as well.

From what I understand Heber J Grant was not too pleased that Utah voted to overturn prohibition and shortly afterwords, implemented the strict no alcohol policy for temple attendance.

[Scott Lloyd]

Even the Prophet can't read something into scripture that isn't there.

I beg to differ.

A prophet, by pure revelation, can be shown background information about a passage of scripture that is not readily apparent or even present in the passage of scripture as it is written down.

Thus, a prophet can provide insights about scripture that an ordinary reader cannot.

How often a prophet does that may be a matter for discussion, but his ability to do it -- by the gift and power of God -- is a given.

Moreover, a prophet can provide a divinely revealed application for a particular passage of scripture that is tailored to the time and place in which that application is revealed to him.

Personally, I believe this has been the case with D&C 89.

Edited February 8, 2013 by Scott Lloyd

[Ahab]

I beg to differ.

A prophet, by pure revelation, can be shown background information about a passage of scripture that is not readily apparent or even present in the passage of scripture as it is written down.

Thus, a prophet can provide insights about scripture that an ordinary reader cannot.

How often a prophet does that may be a matter for discussion, but his ability to do it -- by the gift and power of God -- is a given.

Moreover, a prophet can provide a divinely revealed application for a particular passage of scripture that is tailored to the time and place in which that application is revealed to him.

Personally, I believe this has been the case with D&C 89.

Are you aware of how a prophet of God has defined what a "mild" drink is, or was then?

If soft drinks are "soft" drinks, and hard liquor is "hard", what could a "mild" drink be, I wonder.

I think I know what it is, and it makes perfect sense to me, but I don't know of a case where the "mild" drink has been defined.

Maybe I haven't looked hard enough because I'm somewhat satisifed in my ignorance, and I'd rather just avoid it to be safe and to avoid upsetting my wife, but I really believe a "mild" drink is a reference to what we now call a beer, even if maybe it's what we would refer to as an non-alcoholic beer with hardly any fermentation.

[Saints Alive]

I beg to differ.

A prophet, by pure revelation, can be shown background information about a passage of scripture that is not readily apparent or even present in the passage of scripture as it is written down..

Then show me the revelation, not opinion, where strong drinks = all alcohol. Or for that matter show me the revelation that changes D&C 89 from advice to commandment. As far as I can tell obedience to the WoW is a matter of policy for baptism and temple recommend renewal.

[Scott Lloyd]

Actually, there was a paper posted recently (The Word of Wisdom in its First Decade, by Paul Y. Hoskisson in Journal of Mormon History 38:1 - Winter 2012) showing very interestingly how almost immediately, the full binding effect of the revelation was in force, and enforced, through the Kirtland and Missouri years, and then only in Nauvoo did it start to be relaxed again. The reasons and explanations for the relaxing of the practice - even by Joseph - I found fascinating, and quite enlightening.

It's thought by many that it was ignored or not enforced from the beginning, and not until Brigham Young or Heber Grant was it first actually made a commandment, or put into its proper place, but that narrative is incomplete.

Interesting. That would answer a couple of questions, including why some people in very early Church history were disciplined for failure to observe the Word of Wisdom yet it seems the Word of Wisdom was observed so casually from the Nauvoo period on until the early 1900s.

But be that as it may, my point still stands that it is the prerogative of a prophet of God, under inspiration, to provide insight, enlightenment and application to any given passage of scripture or revelation at any given time and setting.

[Saints Alive]

Are you aware of how a prophet of God has defined what a "mild" drink is, or was then?

If soft drinks are "soft" drinks, and hard liquor is "hard", what could a "mild" drink be, I wonder.

I think I know what it is, and it makes perfect sense to me, but I don't know of a case where the "mild" drink has been defined.

Maybe I haven't looked hard enough because I'm somewhat satisifed in my ignorance, and I'd rather just avoid it to be safe and to avoid upsetting my wife, but I really believe a "mild" drink is a reference to what we now call a beer, even if maybe it's what we would refer to as an non-alcoholic beer with hardly any fermentation.

The actual term in D&C 89 is "strong drinks" which in 19th century vocabulary meant distilled liquor, beer is brewed. If you would have told the early saints beer is a strong drink they would have laughed you under the table.

[Scott Lloyd]

To Ahab and and Saints Alive: I don't believe revelation necessarily has to be written down and published to be valid. And I believe revelation can be reflected in guidelines and directives sent through established priesthood channels.

The Word of Wisdom as it is defined today has been thus defined throughout my lifetime and many years prior to that. I accept it as the revealed word of God.

Edited February 8, 2013 by Scott Lloyd

[Ahab]

The actual term in D&C 89 is "strong drinks" which in 19th century vocabulary meant distilled liquor, beer is brewed. If you would have told the early saints beer is a strong drink they would have laughed you under the table.

I'm talking about how the revelation states that mild drinks are acceptable while describing mild drinks as having the ingredients we now associate with beer.

Mild drinks are good. Hard drinks are not, for the belly. There's nothing specifically about soft drrinks, per se, but if mild drinks are considered good then soft drinks would be probably also considered to be good... at least when either is used in moderation.

Edit

Edited February 8, 2013 by Ahab

[Saints Alive]

To Ahab and and Saints Alive: I don't believe revelation necessarily has to be written down and published to be valid. And I believe revelation can be reflected in guidelines and directives sent through established priesthood channels.

I don't necessarily disagree but I believe it is a slippery slope. When revelation isn't published and officially ratified it can be easy to confuse opinion with revelation, as we saw with the whole curse of Cain mess.

[Ahab]

To Ahab and and Saints Alive: I don't believe revelation necessarily has to be written down and published to be valid. And I believe revelation can be reflected in guidelines and directives sent through established priesthood channels.

The Word of Wisdom as it is defined today has been thus defined throughout my lifetime and many years prior to that. I accept it as the revealed word of God.

I'm doing fine with my own personal guidance from the Holy Spirit, Scott. I'm on safe ground here. I was just wondering if you know of an instance where a prophet of God has defined what is meant by a "mild" drink, in detail, based on what he has been told through his own personal guidance from the Holy Spirit.

[Saints Alive]

The Word of Wisdom as it is defined today has been thus defined throughout my lifetime and many years prior to that...

I'll rely on scripture and what has actually been revealed over tradition, that's why some people grew up thinking caffeine was against the WoW.

[Maidservant]

I have a personal testimony of the spiritual safety (NOT health safety) that is provided by the Word of Wisdom as it stands today banning all forms of alcohol. I don't think it makes sense to say that it isn't revelatory in some sense at present (living prophets and all), regardless of what Joseph Smith may or may not have understood. Not to put too fine a point on it, but if there had been no Word of Wisdom law, then I wouldn't be here. In Church. In life. So if I'm the only person it saved in every sense of the word, then thank you Jesus for whoever decided to enact it even if it wasn't with your permission!

Edited February 8, 2013 by Maidservant