Wow Prohibition On Beer Simply An Artifact Of Prohibition?

[Ahab]

I have a personal testimony of the spiritual safety (NOT health safety) that is provided by the Word of Wisdom as it stands today banning all forms of alcohol. I don't think it makes sense to say that it isn't revelatory in some sense at present (living prophets and all), regardless of what Joseph Smith may or may not have understood. Not to put too fine a point on it, but if there had been no Word of Wisdom law, then I wouldn't be here. In Church. In life. So if I'm the only person it saved in every sense of the word, then thank you Jesus for whoever decided to enact it even if it wasn't with your permission!

If for no other reason, that would be a good one.

Personally, I look at it as a test of endurance, and faithfulness. Before I joined the Church, at age 28, I throughly enjoyed drinking all forms of alcohol, and since then there have been a few times when I've had some as well, but for many years now I haven't had any and I'm determined to stick it out. I would love to be able to drink it again, though, in moderation. I love the taste in many forms and I think I can handle it fine. The guidance is geared toward those who are weak regarding those things, though, and since it's better for them to not have it I'm right there with them not having it either. We're a team, ya know. We're in this together.

[David T]

If I remember correctly, the recent newsroom distinguished between the Word of Wisdom, as a text, and the church's health code - with the latter being based on, but not equated with, the former. Of course, the Temple Recommend question currently conflates the two.

[Scott Lloyd]

I'll rely on scripture and what has actually been revealed over tradition, that's why some people grew up thinking caffeine was against the WoW.

So if it's not written down and published, it doesn't qualify as revelation? Talk about a slippery slope.

Edited February 8, 2013 by Scott Lloyd

[Saints Alive]

So if it's not written down and published, it doesn't qualify as revelation? Talk about a slippery slope.

Not really, how hard is it to publish a revelation?

[Maidservant]

The guidance is geared toward those who are weak regarding those things, though, and since it's better for them to not have it I'm right there with them not having it either. We're a team, ya know. We're in this together.

Thanks!

[rockpond]

If I remember correctly, the recent newsroom distinguished between the Word of Wisdom, as a text, and the church's health code - with the latter being based on, but not equated with, the former. Of course, the Temple Recommend question currently conflates the two.

What are your thoughts regarding how the Temple Recommend question conflates the two?

[David T]

What are your thoughts regarding how the Temple Recommend question conflates the two?

The wordings asks about the Word of Wisdom, but the intent is to ask of some is following the current Church health code, not the literal wording of the revelation text labeled the word of wisdom.

[rockpond]

The wordings asks about the Word of Wisdom, but the intent is to ask of some is following the current Church health code, not the literal wording of the revelation text labeled the word of wisdom.

Interesting perspective, I get where you are coming from. But since, as the one asking the questions I'm not permitted to elaborate at all, I'd argue that what is really being asked is if the individual is living their understanding of the Word of Wisdom.

[Alan]

i have always suspected that milds drinks made with barley refers to beer. Although there is something called barley water over here, but i don't know to what extent that was made or used in the US of the 19th century.

However, I have yet to find any statement in which the WoW was converted into a commandment binding on the mebers of the church. There are plenty which say it was done, but no reference.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

The Word of Wisdom does not ban all forms of alcohol...

"That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him." (D&C 89)

** So even the revelation itself details a specific time in which alcohol (wine) can be used... for the Sacrament.

I tend to agree that beer is the mild drink mentioned in the WofW.

And I don't think eating meat (flesh) only December-March is such a bad idea.

[Saints Alive]

The Word of Wisdom does not ban all forms of alcohol...

"That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him." (D&C 89)

** So even the revelation itself details a specific time in which alcohol (wine) can be used... for the Sacrament.

I tend to agree that beer is the mild drink mentioned in the WofW.

And I don't think eating meat (flesh) only December-March is such a bad idea.

I really appreciate your perspective, do you know of any other restoration churches that have made the WoW a commandment?

I know its common place for the CofC to serve coffee before and after church but generally I take everything they do with a grain of salt.

[William Schryver]

I don't think there can be much doubt that "mild drinks" made from grain refers to beer. Brigham Young clearly interpreted it in that fashion, and the drinking of beer was common in pioneer Utah.

Now, as to the current prohibition on beer drinking in the modern Church ... that is, to me, an entirely different question. I, for one, can see the wisdom in encouraging the Saints to not take part in the modern "beer culture" of our world. To me, the issue is less one of the "mild drink," per se, and more one of the culture that has been built up around it--a culture largely antithetical to the building up of Zion.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

I really appreciate your perspective, do you know of any other restoration churches that have made the WoW a commandment?

I know its common place for the CofC to serve coffee before and after church but generally I take everything they do with a grain of salt.

I know the debate of commandment vs. advice is also had among us RLDS (Conservatives). Alcohol and tobacco are essentially banned, especially among the Priesthood. But we have no special rites that take into account your observance relative to the interpretation of any leaders, before being allowed to participate.

I would be interested on the level of observation among the Cutlerites. I will have to ask someday, as their church is right around the corner and I owe them money for a book.

Edited February 8, 2013 by BookofMormonLuvr

[thesometimesaint]

Both Barley Water and Beer are ancient and were regularly used in 1800's America.

[Calm]

I, for one, can see the wisdom in encouraging the Saints to not take part in the modern "beer culture" of our world. To me, the issue is less one of the "mild drink," per se, and more one of the culture that has been built up around it--a culture largely antithetical to the building up of Zion.

To me it is not only just the "beer culture" but the overall attitude toward health that leads me to see it as being very wise to discourage any alcohol consumption.

There are many unhealthy aspects of modern life that are aggravated by alcohol use, whether it is the actual physical effect on the body such as interfering with the quality of sleep...in a culture that already is likely sleeping poorly as demonstrated by increased insomnia and other sleep disorders....or the emotional and mental effect of lowering inhibitions for risk causing people to end up engaging in dangerous behaviour such as driving drunk or something else. And unfortunately many of the same unhealthy aspects are self treated with alcohol because they think it is helping when it really isn't (depression and anxiety for instance). And when one considers that people often combine drugs with alcohol carelessly...drugs that weren't available back in the days of JS...greater caution seems indicated to me.

Alcohol has always added a complication to a society's problems (domestic abuse and other forms of violence, those on the fringe, those in poverty, etc) even if the average person wasn't that affected directly by alcohol themselves, but with the extremes becoming so much more accessible and people interacting in many ways on a wider 'field' due to technology, the level of potential damage both for the individual and the society is accelerating in my view when alcohol is involved and thus it makes more sense in my view to restrict it if one wishes to limit injury. It is a very easy 'fix' in comparison to what would be required to remove other risk factors.

Edited February 8, 2013 by calmoriah

[Kiviuq]

But be that as it may, my point still stands that it is the prerogative of a prophet of God, under inspiration, to provide insight, enlightenment and application to any given passage of scripture or revelation at any given time and setting.

We are also taught that a test of a true prophet is that he will never contradict existing scripture.

Although I agree with the above statement, on its face, I have a hard time reconciling your conclusion that a prophet can contradict the clear wording of the scripture in his “inspire[ed]… insight.”

[thesometimesaint]

We are also taught that a test of a true prophet is that he will never contradict existing scripture.

Although I agree with the above statement, on its face, I have a hard time reconciling your conclusion that a prophet can contradict the clear wording of the scripture in his “inspire[ed]… insight.”

Not in this Church.

Of course he can contradict previous Scripture. We just have an established method for changing it.

[phaedrus ut]

It's interest how even Prophets pick and choose which commandments to follow. Heber J. Grant may have believed in a strict interpretation of the WoW but he was more than willing to practice post manifesto polygamy. He continued to practice polygamy openly as a Apostle after the second manifesto in 1904 and was only made a monogamist by the death of his wife.

There is also this little tidbit of history to consider

July 11, 1901 - First Presidency and apostles agree that Danish beer is

not harmful or in violation of Word of Wisdom and release an official

statement to the same affect.(Source: The Mormon Hierarchy : Extensions of Power - D. MICHAEL QUINN)

I've seen reference to this official statement but never a copy of the statement itself.

Phaedrus

[Scott Lloyd]

We are also taught that a test of a true prophet is that he will never contradict existing scripture.

Although I agree with the above statement, on its face, I have a hard time reconciling your conclusion that a prophet can contradict the clear wording of the scripture in his “inspire[ed]… insight.”

Not sure where you are going with this or what you mean by "contradict existing scripture."

Does the fact that Jehovah in an earlier age decreed that animal sacrifice and circumcision were to be practiced by the covenant people of God but those requirements were later discontinued by Christ's decree as given through prophets amount to contradicting existing scripture?

Edited February 8, 2013 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

I don't think there can be much doubt that "mild drinks" made from grain refers to beer. Brigham Young clearly interpreted it in that fashion, and the drinking of beer was common in pioneer Utah.

Now, as to the current prohibition on beer drinking in the modern Church ... that is, to me, an entirely different question. I, for one, can see the wisdom in encouraging the Saints to not take part in the modern "beer culture" of our world. To me, the issue is less one of the "mild drink," per se, and more one of the culture that has been built up around it--a culture largely antithetical to the building up of Zion.

That occurred to me as well, as I thought of the "keggers" and other binges that some of my classmates took part in back when I was in high school.

I'm fairly confident conditions are even worse in this day and age.

[Scott Lloyd]

Not really, how hard is it to publish a revelation?

The question is irrelevant to the point.

I believe the prophets and apostles receive and respond to revelation on a daily basis on myriad items, large and small. You seem to be saying they are not revelations unless each and every one is written down and pubished.

[ERMD]

I don't think there can be much doubt that "mild drinks" made from grain refers to beer. Brigham Young clearly interpreted it in that fashion, and the drinking of beer was common in pioneer Utah.

Now, as to the current prohibition on beer drinking in the modern Church ... that is, to me, an entirely different question. I, for one, can see the wisdom in encouraging the Saints to not take part in the modern "beer culture" of our world. To me, the issue is less one of the "mild drink," per se, and more one of the culture that has been built up around it--a culture largely antithetical to the building up of Zion.

Agree. I have treated countless alcoholics who drink nothing but beer; some as much as 2 cases a day, every day.

[thesometimesaint]

Agree. I have treated countless alcoholics who drink nothing but beer; some as much as 2 cases a day, every day.

Alcohol aside. Whose badder can hold that much water? They must spend half their time with the water closet.

[Biz]

http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/

Is a fantastic blog, very well done.

[mathonihah]

Question for those who believe that the Word of Wisdom in its original form permits the drinking of beer. The wording of the revelation is clearly antithetical to the drinking of wine; and puts it on the same level as "strong drinks":

"That inasmuch as any man drinketh

wine or strong drink

among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him." (D&C 89:5)

Now the percentage alcohol in beer is not substantially lower than wine. There are different kinds of both of course. Some beers even have a higher percentage of alcohol than some types of wine. But on average wine contains between 12.5% and 14.5% alcohol, whereas beer contains on average between 4% and 6% alcohol (see here and here for more information). But beer is normally consumed in much greater quantities than wine. It is considered a "thirst quencher". Hence an average beer drinker probably consumes the same quantity of alcohol as an average wine drinker. But if wine is prohibited, what makes you think that beer should be allowed? The verse in question that is quoted in support of that belief is as follows:

"Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain." (D&C 89:17)

I am not at all sure this must necessarily refer to beer. Unless somebody actually inquires from the Lord, and obtain a revelation to that effect (or better still, a recipe for how that kind of drink should be made!), I think it is presumptuous of any of us to jump to conclusions as to exactly what it means. Second-guessing the Lord is never a good idea. Asking him is always the best policy.