Bsa Delays Decision >> Friends Of Scouting Impact?

[daz2]

And, there is nothing in the current proposal that would force the Church to do anything.

[rockpond]

After a brief (one week) delay, we have received word from the stake presidency to resume the FoS campaign in our wards.

[Ahab]

I doubt that they believe there will be no speculation simply because they ask for it. Life would be quite different if the members and everyone else simply did what church leaders asked. However, less speculation is better than seeing it run rampant all over, thus setting up expectations and negative reactions when something does actually happen.

That doesn't mean that those who take seriously direction from the church leaders can't seriously consider whether or not they should participate in such speculation.

For me, it is a good excuse to ignore a certain set of threads...and since I have company coming in less than two weeks and want to overhaul the house before that happens (she feels bad if she sees things that make it look like I have lost some control over my environment and life so I have to work hard to make sure it doesn't appear that way...even if most of the time it is that way, lol) I need all the help I can get to get off the board sooner than usual these days, winter being a time I sleep, eat and read the board and not much else.

Need a nudge? I get that way when playing computer games, too, when I play them. I get so engrossed and comfortable with it that it's hard for me to want to do anything else. This board too, to a certain extent, but I need to get (other) work done at least sometimes so I need to pull myself away, sometimes. Here's how I do it.

Finish a thread for a moment, after either reading it or contributing to it, and then after you finish with it at that moment, hit the X mark to close the screen. At that point it will then be gone from your computer, so you'd have to log back on to get into it again, but instead of doing that step away from the computer.

Say it when you do it, too, as if someone else is telling you to do it.: "Step away from the computer".

Now do something else, and don't stop doing that until you finish with it. Make a list before you start the day, if that helps, so you can see or be reminded about what else needs to be done.

You can do it.

[gkearney]

The decision won't affect my contribution to scouting.

FWIW, back in 1991, the Church's young men president said he would recommend that the Church withdraw from scouting "if the church is forced to register homosexual Scouts or to register those who will not adhere to 'Duty to God' provisions of the Scout Oath and Law." http://www.deseretnews.com/article/169688/SCOUTERS-ADVOCATE-STRONG-DEFENSE.html?pg=all Under the current proposal, the Church would not be required to register anyone, it would be up to the Church to decide.

Who was the young men's general president in 1991?

[Calm]

The "print" version is more detailed:

Elder Jack H. Goaslind, a member of the church's First Quorum of Seventy, president of the church's Young Men program and a member of the Boy Scouts' National Executive Board, reiterated his position Tuesday that he is not in a position of making final decisions regarding the church's involvement in Scouting. That is the responsibility of the First Presidency, he said.

But he said he would recommend the church, which adopted the Scouting program three years after Scouting was charted by Congress in 1910, withdraw from the Boy Scouts if it is forced to follow court rulings on the admittance of girls, homosexuals and atheism.

A few months ago Elder Goaslind represented the church and testified at the request of the Boy Scouts in a Los Angeles area court case involving an openly homosexual man who wants to be a Scoutmaster. And earlier this month, the LDS general authority testified for the Boy Scouts in a Chicago case of a man whose 8-year-old son wants to become a Cub Scout. The father and boy refuse to profess belief in God, as required in the Scout Oath and Scout Law.

[california boy]

A lot has changed since 1991. Now BSA is considering being more inclusive without a court ordering them to do it. It is hard to believe that Christ's church would not be open to all who want to be involved, even a young Aaronic Priesthood boy who wants to participate in young men's activities even though he is gay.

[tyler90az]

What ever happened to the saying if you have somebody who smells like smoke in your chapel the bishop is doing a good job?: If an acting gay man wants to come to church, who are we to condemn. An admonition from the most recent General conference was, "stay with us." Even President Monson said, "see men as they might become."

I am not speculating for the church, but saying what I hope. I think any gay should be allowed to be a boyscout and if the church leaves the scouting program for that reason it would be a bad move.

[california boy]

What ever happened to the saying if you have somebody who smells like smoke in your chapel the bishop is doing a good job?: If an acting gay man wants to come to church, who are we to condemn. An admonition from the most recent General conference was, "stay with us." Even President Monson said, "see men as they might become."

I am not speculating for the church, but saying what I hope. I think any gay should be allowed to be a boyscout and if the church leaves the scouting program for that reason it would be a bad move.

Very well put. It is hard to imagine anyone who follows the teachings of the Savior to not want to ifollow the brotheren's counsel. The gospel is a gospel of love and inclusion, not one of exclusion. It is one of hope and support on a journey back to God for all sinners, not just for the perfected.

[Rob Osborn]

What ever happened to the saying if you have somebody who smells like smoke in your chapel the bishop is doing a good job?: If an acting gay man wants to come to church, who are we to condemn. An admonition from the most recent General conference was, "stay with us." Even President Monson said, "see men as they might become."

I am not speculating for the church, but saying what I hope. I think any gay should be allowed to be a boyscout and if the church leaves the scouting program for that reason it would be a bad move.

I cant speak for the church but I believe the real problem is not for the boys themselves but in the leadership positions. You cant have openly gay leaders leading, teaching, mentoring, and showing by example, the proper and moral responsibility of raising young men to become good husbands, fathers and great spiritual leaders themselves.

Because the church believes in positioning good and morally principled leaders in youth programs including the scout program, it would open the door for a myriad of lawsuits, social debates and disunity if the BSA were to change their stance regarding the sexuality and moral principles of their leaders in whom the church is ultimately and legally responsible for.

[DavidB]

No change for me, as i do not donate to FoS.

Even if I did donate, and the change had been made i would not withhold the donation.

[Tacenda]

I cant speak for the church but I believe the real problem is not for the boys themselves but in the leadership positions. You cant have openly gay leaders leading, teaching, mentoring, and showing by example, the proper and moral responsibility of raising young men to become good husbands, fathers and great spiritual leaders themselves.

Because the church believes in positioning good and morally principled leaders in youth programs including the scout program, it would open the door for a myriad of lawsuits, social debates and disunity if the BSA were to change their stance regarding the sexuality and moral principles of their leaders in whom the church is ultimately and legally responsible for.

I disagree with you. I believe gay leaders could teach the things you describe. They've probably had role models for this. Your lumping all gay men together thinking their only goal is to sway the youth their way or to molest. There's plenty of non gay leaders that are pedophiles. I watched an Archie Bunker episode last night (stumbled across it) where he's talking to his black neighbor (young adult) about not lumping everyone together because of a couple bad ones. It was funny because being the racist he is on the show, he doesn't realize he does that with black people. And the neighbor kept repeating that sentiment as he walked out the door to get Archie to see the error of his ways. Edited February 9, 2013 by Tacenda

[rockpond]

I cant speak for the church but I believe the real problem is not for the boys themselves but in the leadership positions. You cant have openly gay leaders leading, teaching, mentoring, and showing by example, the proper and moral responsibility of raising young men to become good husbands, fathers and great spiritual leaders themselves.

Because the church believes in positioning good and morally principled leaders in youth programs including the scout program, it would open the door for a myriad of lawsuits, social debates and disunity if the BSA were to change their stance regarding the sexuality and moral principles of their leaders in whom the church is ultimately and legally responsible for.

Rob -- Care to weigh in on the question at hand on this thread? Given the position you've staked about above, do you plan to increase, decrease, or not change your Friends of Scouting contribution?

[tyler90az]

I cant speak for the church but I believe the real problem is not for the boys themselves but in the leadership positions. You cant have openly gay leaders leading, teaching, mentoring, and showing by example, the proper and moral responsibility of raising young men to become good husbands, fathers and great spiritual leaders themselves.

Because the church believes in positioning good and morally principled leaders in youth programs including the scout program, it would open the door for a myriad of lawsuits, social debates and disunity if the BSA were to change their stance regarding the sexuality and moral principles of their leaders in whom the church is ultimately and legally responsible for.

Can non-members join our LDS troops? Are there other Boy Scout troops in same areas besides the LDS troops? If so, do non-members(no affiliation to church at all) ever join our LDS troops? It would be hard for me to believe a Gay Man would actively seek out an LDS Troop to join(more likely to avoid). The only ones that would join the LDS troop, would be our own. I doubt those men would come out shouting they are gay anyway. That leads me to my last question, would this BS policy change have any effect ons The Church?

If The Church leaves the BS now it just shows they have a dislike(lack of better word) for gay people. Which is completely opposite of the website they just released.

With that said, I wish they would cut ties with the BS and have their own program. Now it just seems like the wrong time to do it from a public relations perspective and a decency perspective. I also have no deep heritage of Boy Scouts like other members, so it is easy for me to say get rid of it.

Either way, I trust our leaders to make the right decision taking everything into account.

[Calm]

We had a nonmember in our group who wanted to go to scouts with a friend who was a member. I've seen wards with nonmember parents in leadership positions as well.

[DavidB]

After a brief (one week) delay, we have received word from the stake presidency to resume the FoS campaign in our wards.

Was the delay from Salt Lake or your local leadership?

[Saints Alive]

I too have seen both scout and scout leader non-members.

I think there is a gay man out there who would try to join an lds troop just to prove a point and cry discrimination.

[DavidB]

I too have seen both scout and scout leader non-members.

I think there is a gay man out there who would try to join an lds troop just to prove a point and cry discrimination.

He would likely have to get baptized first.

[Saints Alive]

He would likely have to get baptized first.

Why? There are non-member scoutleaders in LDS troops. Edited February 10, 2013 by Saints Alive

[DavidB]

Why? There are non-member scoutleaders in LDS troops.

And did those non-members just walk of the street or did the non-member have some kind of connection to the ward, and the non-member known to the ward members.

[Saints Alive]

To be honest I don't know there situations.

[rockpond]

Was the delay from Salt Lake or your local leadership?

The stake presidency did not identify the delay as coming from Salt Lake. But today we are moving forward with the FoS campaign.

[rockpond]

Can non-members join our LDS troops? Are there other Boy Scout troops in same areas besides the LDS troops? If so, do non-members(no affiliation to church at all) ever join our LDS troops? It would be hard for me to believe a Gay Man would actively seek out an LDS Troop to join(more likely to avoid). The only ones that would join the LDS troop, would be our own. I doubt those men would come out shouting they are gay anyway. That leads me to my last question, would this BS policy change have any effect ons The Church?

If The Church leaves the BS now it just shows they have a dislike(lack of better word) for gay people. Which is completely opposite of the website they just released.

With that said, I wish they would cut ties with the BS and have their own program. Now it just seems like the wrong time to do it from a public relations perspective and a decency perspective. I also have no deep heritage of Boy Scouts like other members, so it is easy for me to say get rid of it.

Either way, I trust our leaders to make the right decision taking everything into account.

Tyler - What are your thoughts on the Friends of Scouting campaign... Does this announcement by the BSA lead you to increase, decrease, or not change your Friends of Scouting contribution?

[gkearney]

I have encountered LDS troops with significant non lds youth and leadership. One small California town I know of the church troop is mostly nonmembers. In effect the church sponsors the communities scout group.

This works fine until you reach the coed Venturing age group. The church doesn't sponsor coed scouting but the community might well want to be able to offer it.

[tyler90az]

Tyler - What are your thoughts on the Friends of Scouting campaign... Does this announcement by the BSA lead you to increase, decrease, or not change your Friends of Scouting contribution?

I have never donated.

Ironically somebody gave a talk on scouting in Sacrament today. Cleared up many different questions I had.

[Paddy]

Don't want to derail this thread. But I am just wondering if someone could give me a really quick summary of the difference between the BSA an FoS?? Does one provide the program and the other the funding? Why two organizations.

Thanks

Paddy