bluebell Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 Sure my decision reflects something. It's just a matter of how crazy I want to be with the conclusions I draw from my choice.If I did I could infer that...*Your choice to break the speed limit means you have no respect for the law and it's just a matter of time before you use your car as a battering ram.*You tell your boss you were late because you were stuck in traffic when really you slept too long....means your going to eventually defraud the entire company of millions.I could go on and on and on and on and on....Big UP!LamaniteI get what you are saying. You are making fun of people who might believe it would be spiritually bad to take pictures in Sacrament and presenting their arguments in as ridiculous a way as possible to show how dumb they are. If you really believe that there is no spiritual reason NOT to take the picture though, then I guess i don't understand why you are conflicted about it.
Lamanite Posted November 11, 2012 Author Posted November 11, 2012 That meeting could have been held in the E-Center Arena it was soooooo crowded. It was another fantastic Primary Program....best meeting of the year! Bluebell,I'm not meaning to make fun of you in anyway. I'm just trying to point out that willful disobedience to a CHI instruction is not evidence of eventual apostasy or a reflection of someone's personal discipleship. Could it be? Sure. But by that same reasoning any willful disobedience could indicate the same thing. This type of extreme inferences about disobedience could be problematic for anyone that is less than perfect.I also realize there are some very good reasons for this instruction. I for one don't want my testimony or talk being recorded and put on facebook for people to critique, mock, or ridicule. There are a million different reasons why recording video of Church services should be discouraged. I understand. Big UP!Lamanite 1
Tacenda Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) That meeting could have been held in the E-Center Arena it was soooooo crowded. It was another fantastic Primary Program....best meeting of the year! Bluebell,I'm not meaning to make fun of you in anyway. I'm just trying to point out that willful disobedience to a CHI instruction is not evidence of eventual apostasy or a reflection of someone's personal discipleship. Could it be? Sure. But by that same reasoning any willful disobedience could indicate the same thing. This type of extreme inferences about disobedience could be problematic for anyone that is less than perfect.I also realize there are some very good reasons for this instruction. I for one don't want my testimony or talk being recorded and put on facebook for people to critique, mock, or ridicule. There are a million different reasons why recording video of Church services should be discouraged. I understand.Big UP!LamaniteWow, glad it was such a great program. Hopefully you'll remember it or jot down your thoughts. Just wanted to tell a short story about a woman that gave a talk in Sacrament Meeting, and this was way back when cell phones became popular, who took her cell phone with her to the pulpit and laid it there while she spoke and lo and behold the cell phone rang and she picked it up chatted for a second and then told the person she was right in the middle of giving a talk and could she call them back. It was so odd, and it was when the majority of us didn't own a cell phone. Very interesting to say the least! Edited November 11, 2012 by Tacenda
bluebell Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 That meeting could have been held in the E-Center Arena it was soooooo crowded. It was another fantastic Primary Program....best meeting of the year! Bluebell,I'm not meaning to make fun of you in anyway.I didn't ever think you were making fun of me at all. But you were making fun of other posters. I'm not saying you need to be rebuked for that or anything at all, but it's pretty obvious, so why not just own it. You were lampooning their positions with great glee.I'm just trying to point out that willful disobedience to a CHI instruction is not evidence of eventual apostasy or a reflection of someone's personal discipleship. Could it be? Sure. But by that same reasoning any willful disobedience could indicate the same thing. This type of extreme inferences about disobedience could be problematic for anyone that is less than perfect.I might have missed a post, so this is a sincere question-did anyone on this thread make such inferences?I also realize there are some very good reasons for this instruction. I for one don't want my testimony or talk being recorded and put on facebook for people to critique, mock, or ridicule. There are a million different reasons why recording video of Church services should be discouraged. I understand.Big UP!LamaniteMaybe you don't understand what i'm asking. I'm not arguing with you about whether or not it's right or wrong to follow the blanket statement of the CHI on this issue. I'm honestly asking, since it doesn't seem like you believed there was any good reason NOT to record your daughter, why you felt conflicted about doing it?Sorry if i'm not being clear. 1
Lamanite Posted November 12, 2012 Author Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) Oh sorry bluebell I didn't understand.The conflict came from comparing my desires to record video of my girls and my suspicions that recording something within the chapel and especially during sacrament meeting would probably be frowned upon.Then the conflict intensified when I finally looked up what the CHI had to say about it.Was this ever a moral conflict for me? Not even close.This issue hinged solely on the principle of obedience.What did I choose?I have three great video clips of 3 girls that I will cherish forever. The interesting part of the debate will be this......I actually asked my Bishop prior to the meeting if he wouldn't mind if I used my phone to record my girls; he furrowed his brow and quickly said to sit up front and be discreet. HA!!!So am I going to Hell? Or is my Bishop going to Hell? Or are both of us going to Hell?And to be honest, I may have still done it even if he said no. That raises the question, why I would want to be Mormon if I'm unwilling to play by the rules? And why does Mormonism have a place for people like me anyway?Crazy stuff for a simple issue like this. Stuff like this really does say a lot about who and what we're about.Big UP!Lamanite Edited November 12, 2012 by Lamanite
Tacenda Posted November 12, 2012 Posted November 12, 2012 Oh sorry bluebell I didn't understand.The conflict came from comparing my desires to record video of my girls and my suspicions that recording something within the chapel and especially during sacrament meeting would probably be frowned upon.Then the conflict intensified when I finally looked up what the CHI had to say about it.Was this ever a moral conflict for me? Not even close.This issue hinged solely on the principle of obedience.What did I choose?I have three great video clips of 3 girls that I will cherish forever. The interesting part of the debate will be this......I actually asked my Bishop prior to the meeting if he wouldn't mind if I used my phone to record my girls; he furrowed his brow and quickly said to sit up front and be discreet. HA!!!So am I going to Hell? Or is my Bishop going to Hell? Or are both of us going to Hell?And to be honest, I may have still done it even if he said no. That raises the question, why I would want to be Mormon if I'm unwilling to play by the rules? And why does Mormonism have a place for people like me anyway?Crazy stuff for a simple issue like this. Stuff like this really does say a lot about who and what we're about.Big UP!LamaniteI really like your bishop!
Calm Posted November 12, 2012 Posted November 12, 2012 This issue hinged solely on the principle of obedience.Isn't that a moral issue?
Lamanite Posted November 12, 2012 Author Posted November 12, 2012 Isn't that a moral issue?I saw that you were the last person to post and as I scrolled down the page waiting to see your post I was relieved to see that I hadn't been taken to task. At least not as badly as I thought I was going to be. The problem with your criticisms are that they are generally pretty accurate. This isn't lip service. You have a balanced approach that is so faithful, rational, and reasonable. It's very damning for people like me. I see your point. And I think we could both frame the problem within a moral construct, but I just can't honestly get to that point. But no I don't think the issue was between a moral obligation and evil disobedience. Big UP!Lamanite
Calm Posted November 12, 2012 Posted November 12, 2012 I saw that you were the last person to post and as I scrolled down the page waiting to see your post I was relieved to see that I hadn't been taken to task. At least not as badly as I thought I was going to be. The problem with your criticisms are that they are generally pretty accurate. This isn't lip service. You have a balanced approach that is so faithful, rational, and reasonable. It's very damning for people like me.
The Nehor Posted November 12, 2012 Posted November 12, 2012 Wait.....would actually watch this later or is it like a wedding video where it is important to have but no one ever views it?
Lamanite Posted November 12, 2012 Author Posted November 12, 2012 Wait.....would actually watch this later or is it like a wedding video where it is important to have but no one ever views it?We go through home movies every couple of years or so. So yeah, we'll watch it.Big UP!Lamanite
rongo Posted November 12, 2012 Posted November 12, 2012 Sure my decision reflects something. It's just a matter of how crazy I want to be with the conclusions I draw from my choice.If I did I could infer that...*Your choice to break the speed limit means you have no respect for the law and it's just a matter of time before you use your car as a battering ram.Sorry. This reminded me of an overly-harsh statement by then-Elder Kimball:"Another area in which numerous people show a total lack of honesty and integrity is on the highway. Is it dishonest to break speed limits? What are we doing to our children and to others when we not only exceed limits but boast about it?" (Talk at BYU, June 1957, Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 197).
Tacenda Posted November 12, 2012 Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) You could have worn the camera that the dude wore in the temple. And not even have to explain or ask the bishop. But you took the high road on this one. And with so many people taking their phones to church I doubt you were the only one. The church has a policy of no clapping in the chapel. But for four years in a row our stake president invited a well known Baptist choir to join our stake choirs for a Christmas program. Our SP was standing & clapping away up on the stand as were the rest of us when singing "Go Tell it On the Mountain". And we clapped for this Baptist choir. It was one of the most spiritual events I've had at church. I guess some rules are meant to be broken. Edited November 12, 2012 by Tacenda
why me Posted November 12, 2012 Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) Probably nothing.But the "right" answer is that my decision will reflect my person devotion to Jesus and my willingness to obey....blah blah blah....as reflected in my decision to record my daughters even though my motives will be absolutely pure and motivated by love.....blah blah...probably a slippery slope that will end up in pornography abuse....blah blah....anti christ....blah blah....Armageddon.....outer darkness.Big UP!LamaniteI think that the problem is that if you are allowed, they could not refuse others who may not have the purest of motives. How often do we see on youtube a missionary talk recorded by a active missionary who leaves the church and posts it on youtube for all to mock. It would be no different for sacrament meetings that were recorded by members if they would become anti. . Edited November 12, 2012 by why me
why me Posted November 12, 2012 Posted November 12, 2012 It was one of the most spiritual events I've had at church. I guess some rules are meant to be broken.It always depends on the situation. Of course, if a guest choir pays a visit and the usual ritual is to clap to the song, well, people will clap or something would seem weird.
bluebell Posted November 12, 2012 Posted November 12, 2012 Oh sorry bluebell I didn't understand.The conflict came from comparing my desires to record video of my girls and my suspicions that recording something within the chapel and especially during sacrament meeting would probably be frowned upon.Then the conflict intensified when I finally looked up what the CHI had to say about it.Was this ever a moral conflict for me? Not even close.This issue hinged solely on the principle of obedience.What did I choose?I have three great video clips of 3 girls that I will cherish forever. The interesting part of the debate will be this......I actually asked my Bishop prior to the meeting if he wouldn't mind if I used my phone to record my girls; he furrowed his brow and quickly said to sit up front and be discreet. HA!!!So am I going to Hell? Or is my Bishop going to Hell? Or are both of us going to Hell?And to be honest, I may have still done it even if he said no. That raises the question, why I would want to be Mormon if I'm unwilling to play by the rules? And why does Mormonism have a place for people like me anyway?Crazy stuff for a simple issue like this. Stuff like this really does say a lot about who and what we're about.Big UP!LamaniteThat's all i was wondering.I wasn't sure if you were seriously conflicted about what the right thing to do would be, or if you were using question as a platform to highlight beliefs on obedience that you feel are silly.Thank you for clarifying.
ERMD Posted November 12, 2012 Posted November 12, 2012 "and these are they that laid down the weapons of their rebellion... and they were all Lamanites." 2
Duncan Posted November 12, 2012 Posted November 12, 2012 "and these are they that laid down the weapons of their rebellion... and they were all Lamanites." ba boom boom ting!
Calm Posted November 12, 2012 Posted November 12, 2012 The church has a policy of no clapping in the chapel. But for four years in a row our stake president invited a well known Baptist choir to join our stake choirs for a Christmas program. Our SP was standing & clapping away up on the stand as were the rest of us when singing "Go Tell it On the Mountain". And we clapped for this Baptist choir. It was one of the most spiritual events I've had at church. I guess some rules are meant to be broken.No rules were broken.Some cultural and recreational music may be presented in the chapel on weekdays. Often, however, the cultural hall is a more appropriate setting for such music. Local priesthood leaders resolve questions about what music is appropriate for the chapel. Applause is usually not appropriate in the chapel.http://www.lds.org/cm/display/0,17631,4987-1,00.html
Bikeemikey Posted November 13, 2012 Posted November 13, 2012 Oh sorry bluebell I didn't understand.The conflict came from comparing my desires to record video of my girls and my suspicions that recording something within the chapel and especially during sacrament meeting would probably be frowned upon.Then the conflict intensified when I finally looked up what the CHI had to say about it.Was this ever a moral conflict for me? Not even close.This issue hinged solely on the principle of obedience.What did I choose?I have three great video clips of 3 girls that I will cherish forever. The interesting part of the debate will be this......I actually asked my Bishop prior to the meeting if he wouldn't mind if I used my phone to record my girls; he furrowed his brow and quickly said to sit up front and be discreet. HA!!!So am I going to Hell? Or is my Bishop going to Hell? Or are both of us going to Hell?And to be honest, I may have still done it even if he said no. That raises the question, why I would want to be Mormon if I'm unwilling to play by the rules? And why does Mormonism have a place for people like me anyway?Crazy stuff for a simple issue like this. Stuff like this really does say a lot about who and what we're about.Big UP!LamaniteCan you imagine the ammunition people would have against the church if a few choice testimony meeting moments made their way onto YouTube :-).
why me Posted November 13, 2012 Posted November 13, 2012 Can you imagine the ammunition people would have against the church if a few choice testimony meeting moments made their way onto YouTube :-).That was my point also. Active members can become the most vile antimormons when they leave the church. There are mission presidents that have become 'youtube' stars when a once active missionary becomes anti and posts president on youtube. .
Lamanite Posted November 13, 2012 Author Posted November 13, 2012 "and these are they that laid down the weapons of their rebellion... and they were all Lamanites." Brilliant. (Metaphorically speaking was my smart phone the "weapon" to be laid down?) I'm just asking cuz it could have been the goldfish crackers or my Lincoln biography.... Big UP!Lamanite
ERMD Posted November 13, 2012 Posted November 13, 2012 The people of Ammon laid down both their weapons of war (real weapons) and the weapons of their rebellion (their pride).Metaphorically speaking...
nosmelone Posted November 13, 2012 Posted November 13, 2012 I recorded my wife and kids and father in law and nephew singing in sacrament meeting on my iphone and it doesn't sound half bad. I imported it to itunes and adjusted the sound quality a bit (via the itunes equalizer) and now I can share it with my family who couldn't attend.
nosmelone Posted November 13, 2012 Posted November 13, 2012 by the way I was recording from the overflo part of the chapel (gymnasiam) because I was late and it still didn't sound half bad.
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